deristriction worry

[Felpro]

This is a nuanced situation with different wants, needs and outcomes. I bought my bike second hand so warranty was not an issue. I was free to act with less concern for consequences. I want the advantages of less restrictions. That will come at a cost. I have a Yamaha YXZ that was modified before it was used to be faster and more fun. Warranty (In the most part) voided.

My issue is spare parts availability for my Shimano 7000. I had to rebuild the plastic jackshaft that breaks inside these motors. As time goes on and warranties expire, there hopefully will be enterprising engineers steeping into the spare parts void. Guys have jumped into the restriction issue and have made a lot of us happier.

More solutions will come in time. Obviously legislation effects (affects?) manufacturers and riders to some degree. That's possibly the biggest challenge that should unite us all. One bad accident where a de-restricted bike harms someone might be the thing that changes our riding more than anything else.

Do what you want with what you own but be aware of the consequences mechanically and morally - to yourself and others.

 

[RustyMTB]

Gentlemen, Ladies or otherwise.

We can all get frustrated with the way some of us write our replies. We all have lots to give and all have lots to learn - be that about bikes or forum communication.

Maybe everyone who's got a bit tense, frustrated, really f**ing p***ed off, or is just bored - can swiftly move on and put it behind you. Give each other a virtual benefit of the doubt. Drink a quick virtual beer together, admire some specs and pictures of some 2027 virtual de-restricted bike being ridden by a hot chick/bloke/chilly and let the thread continue without baiting or belittling.

Cheers !

Hmmm. This doesn't really cut the cake. Forums live & die on the tone of their members, as others have observed whenever the fur flies around here, it's invariably Gary at the centre of it. He is clearly an obnoxious presence turning any thread he involves himself into a tedious bunfight & I'm as guilty as anyone of rising to the provocation, so the only conclusion to be drawn from this emollient response is there has to be history between him & the owners giving him a free pass.

I can read the room & it's not my house or my rules here & neither do I want to be binned, so time to stick the guy on the ignore list & never have to wade through his goading, aggressive nonsense again.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I love how friendly this place is, makes me feel all warm inside...

I'm thinking there are two more realistic options here :

A : Top mount - Ready Brek
B : Bottom mount - use of microwavable glass love beads or similar.

I don't want to judge, but you don't seem like a cereal type of guy to me.

 

[Doomanic]

you don't seem like a cereal type of guy to me.

When this is an “adult portion” can you blame me???

 

[The Hodge]

Drink a quick virtual beer together, admire some specs

I've not contributed to this thread up to now but some of the advice given by the Moderator makes perfect sense ...

I've found this to be strangely soothing ...

 

[Zimmerframe]

I've found this to be strangely soothing ...

Oooooh ... that's really working for me.

Either that or trying Doom's reduced cereal alternative is having a very positive effect already - despite the blistering - 5 minutes was just too long in the Microwave.

I might start selling these. EMTB Forum love beads, available in 27.2mm, 30.9mm, 31.6mm and a limited edition 34.9mm Gen3 Levo owners custom pack (a branded Anal Shim tube will be available for Levo owners who prefer to purchase smaller diameters) - However, some owners may already of had any restrictions removed.

 

[Jackware]

Oooooh ... that's really working for me.

Either that or trying Doom's reduced cereal alternative is having a very positive effect already - despite the blistering - 5 minutes was just too long in the Microwave.

I might start selling these. EMTB Forum love beads, available in 27.2mm, 30.9mm, 31.6mm and a limited edition 34.9mm Gen3 Levo owners custom pack (a branded Anal Shim tube will be available for Levo owners who prefer to purchase smaller diameters) - However, some owners may already of had any restrictions removed.

Too much thought has gone into this reply

 

[Zimmerframe]

Too much thought has gone into this reply

It is the "Derestriction Worry" thread. I thought I'd best try to keep it on topic so it doesn't get removed ....

 

[Jackware]

I'm not sure derestricted orifices being detected is what the OP was worried about?

 

[Moderator]

Hmmm. This doesn't really cut the cake. Forums live & die on the tone of their members, as others have observed whenever the fur flies around here, it's invariably Gary at the centre of it. He is clearly an obnoxious presence turning any thread he involves himself into a tedious bunfight & I'm as guilty as anyone of rising to the provocation, so the only conclusion to be drawn from this emollient response is there has to be history between him & the owners giving him a free pass.

I can read the room & it's not my house or my rules here & neither do I want to be binned, so time to stick the guy on the ignore list & never have to wade through his goading, aggressive nonsense again.

We try not to get into general discussion within threads as it detracts from the thread subject. If people have legitimate concerns with something a user has said they should use the report function and it will be dealt with accordingly. Private conversations will be had, if necessary, with whichever parties it's deemed necessary.

I won't deny that Gary certainly has an ability to write things in a way which can sometimes upset people. Also, many of his replies can be overly short and not actually answer a question which can cause frustration for some people. At the same time, he gives many replies which are of great help. He, like all of us, is a person. Presumably he has good days and bad days. As grown ups, we can choose to not react to something he writes which we either don't like or don't agree with - as we can with any other users posts - they are just words (or maybe little animations..). We also have the ignore function if you find there's someone you really can't tolerate, though this means you potentially miss out on any positive aspects of a user.

Obviously, from a moderator point of view, the easiest option is to just ban anyone as soon as they don't fit with the general flow of things. However, we try to support everyone, welcome everyone and make this a place where everyone can give, learn, communicate, express themselves, share their views and opinions and maybe even enjoy themselves.

No user is given preferential treatment. Gary has been previously banned for a period so is no way immune or granted a free pass. I'm sure he can also confirm he's been involved, as have many others, in discussions with the moderators. In this instance we were hoping the tone and focus of the reply did not need to single anyone out or belittle anyone.

I will also take the time to point out that de-restricting is always a polarising subject and always has been.

There is a specific section of the forum for discussing de-restricting, which is the only place where it's discussion is allowed within the forum :

Derestricting

www.emtbforums.com

In here you will find a sticky thread from March 2018, which clearly states :

• Is banned in all other sections of the forum other than here.
• This section will not show in users News Feed / New Posts or Sidebar Widgets.
• Has a warning section that will permanently show in all sections and threads here to raise awareness.
• Has relevant links to worldwide laws on a Notice at the top of the every page.

We've not removed/moved a few recent de-restriction threads from the main forum areas lately, purely for people to express their views and opinions. Maybe this was a bad idea, maybe a good idea. It's always good to talk and discuss, sometimes these will lead to disagreement, but hopefully rational minds will prevail.

This thread and it's virtually identical twin (as they were double posted) will be moved to the correct area in 24 hours.

This is not a discussion. If anyone wishes to discuss something please just PM the moderator or use the Report function.

Anyone responding to this reply will have their reply removed and be banned from this thread - as stated this is a distraction from the thread. This is an Electric Mountain Bike Forum, not a moderation forum.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I'm not sure derestricted orifices being detected is what the OP was worried about?

Which shop do you goto for that test ? Asking for a friend.

 

[MrSimmo]

When this is an “adult portion” can you blame me???
View attachment 77478

I’m deeply offended by that portion size! That breakfast needs to be derestricted!

Luckily the wife was out so I cooked myself and the kids a full english to offset the pain I felt for you

 

[RustyIron]

You are a hypocrite, you get on here with your knowledge and help people, fair point.. you also waste people's time by just acting like a total prick and not being helpful,

Bwahahahaha! I tried to go back and see what all the controversy is, but I'm missing half the conversation. That's ok. I don't care, so please don't try and recap it for me.

Your "enthusiastic" posts are at least deserving of a solution to your problem. Your shock "squeaks" on compression? Generally that means air has migrated into the damper oil. When it's like that, the shock can't give you optimum performance. It's time for a rebuild.

 

[Rosemount]

Gentlemen, Ladies or otherwise.

We can all get frustrated with the way some of us write our replies. We all have lots to give and all have lots to learn - be that about bikes or forum communication.

Maybe everyone who's got a bit tense, frustrated, really f**ing p***ed off, or is just bored - can swiftly move on and put it behind you. Give each other a virtual benefit of the doubt. Drink a quick virtual beer together, admire some specs and pictures of some 2027 virtual de-restricted bike being ridden by a hot chick/bloke/chilly and let the thread continue without baiting or belittling.

Cheers !

 

[Bobj183]

As others have said it vastly depends on the LBS and the brand in question; generally:

- Bosch are the most anal about de-restriction. They have added significant anti-tamper monitoring into the bikes systems. Assume you are likely to get a 504 or other error and if you don't, its a bonus. LBS's plug-in software also reports suspicious activity to Bosch central who will analyse before any warranty claim. They are publicly active about derestriction being bad, and a primary road safety hazard, they also work closely with road safety public sector organisations across the world so have to show they are doing all they can to follow local laws. They have publicly stated that the technology is capable of running unrestricted but abiding laws is why they do it. LBS's are apparently also penalised for motor warranty claims if they exceed a certain amount. Also see Destricting gen4 Bosch without error 504? - EMTB Forums

- Shimano and Specialized are a lot more relaxed. LBS's typically aren't incentivised to challenge derestriction. Specialized (Brose) have had a lot of motor failures (relative to others) over the last few years, so they are focussed on improving the technology resilience which actually includes exceptional usage (speed derestriction) as an indicator. They both do not actively work to the same level with public sector road safety organisations and do not publicly talk about speed limiting. There are a lot of LBS's who actually fit derestriction cables for you these days and work with you in the case of a warranty claim. Specialized's Turbo software (the LBS software) does not currently evaluate distance vs cranks to the same degree as Bosch's, neither does Shimano's - this may change.

- Giant are in the middle. They are bothered but primarily to reduce warranty claims on the operational cost of the business. Its a lottery to whether you'll get singled out or not.

- Bafang. They don't seem to care, go for it, ride at 300mph who cares.


Bottom line is they most likely can detect derestriction but not all of them will go to the lengths to decline a warranty claim, and the more ambiguity you through at them (i.e. the uplift days, towing people etc) will cast further doubt on the dispute. Be aware though that towing people is sometimes frowned at and that in itself may cause a warranty issue through "overloading the motor".

Get a friendly LBS and work with them, if they know you they'll most likely help you more in the event of a problem.

I'm not a fan of restriction at all and Bosch's approach is a joke to customer service. But it is what it is.

You're spot on with your comments about Bosch. My local bike shop have said they can tell by analysing data whether or not a bike has been deristricted. That goes for the Gen 2 and Gen 4 motors that I have had. I didn't ask them specifically but got involved in the tail end of a general conversation in the shop. For anyone who's had a Bosch driven bike serviced you should have received a detailed print out of the data download. You should be able to deduce from that whether or not power was being used at speeds in excess of 25kph.

 

[SurreySteve]

You're missing the point, motors ARE designed to work beyond the cut off limit.

For the warranty side of things, you are using third party software to remove the cut off limit and trick the motor into not throwing out error codes (eg Bosch). It would be the same if you remapped a car unless it's manufacturer approved.

For whatever reason the law says it shouldn't be used past 15.5mph on a public road. I don't agree with it but it is what it is

It’s not a remap though it’s a derestriction.
it seems similar but if you think about it it’s not really ..

To be clear my last car had a restricted top speed and was remapped. I didn’t bother having the top speed restriction removed as 155mph seemed not a big deal when motorways are 70mph and even if I did track days 155mph is “adequate”.

The whole public highways is just a bad straw man … most cars sold are more than capable of exceeding the maximum speed allowed ..I’m not going to get back from Germany and have a warranty denied because I exceeded 70mph !! Indeed it’s non of their business .. I shouldn’t even need to te them i went to Germany and uk law (road trafic act is irrelevant)

This is a crucial difference … so it’s a redherring

warranty is something different but then legally Bosch are for example ing close to the wind at best on right to repair legislation.
if it was a “motor vehicle” then their dealer only software and locking would be illegal.

Additionally “The warranty period lasts 24 months from the date of sale of the eBike to the end consumer, but no later than 6 months after delivery of the Bosch components to the bike manufacturer.”

so excepting warranty they are denying the right to repair .. somewhat more important if you then combine with deliberately bricking the bike which could constitute criminal damage.