• Warning!!

    Riding a tuned or deristricted EMTB is not a trivial offence and can have serious legal consequences. Also, many manufacturers can detect the use of a tuning device or deristricting method and may decline a repair under warranty if it was modified from the intended original specification. Deristricting EMTB's can also add increased loads for motors and batteries. Riding above the local law limit may reclassify the bike as a low-powered bike, requiring insurance, registration and a number plate.

    Be aware of your local country laws. Many laws prohibit use of modified EMTB's. It is your responsibility to check local laws. Ignoring it, has potential implications to trail access, and risk of prosecution in the event of an accident.

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Caught deristricting ?

robert

Member
Dec 12, 2018
161
14
scotland
Has anybody been caught by the l b s deristricting ? I’m using the dongle and worried about not been able to get anybody to work on my bike.
 

Mteam

E*POWAH Elite
Aug 3, 2020
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Regardless of whether they know you derestricted or not they will work on it, you'll just have to pay for the work if they decide the warranty has been invalidated (or if the bike is outside the warranty period)
 

robert

Member
Dec 12, 2018
161
14
scotland
Regardless of whether they know you derestricted or not they will work on it, you'll just have to pay for the work if they decide the warranty has been invalidated (or if the bike is outside the warranty period)
iv been to 4 bike shops that iv been to in the past that know my bike is deristricted i told them before this new rule came out, all are refusing to work on my bike.
 

robert

Member
Dec 12, 2018
161
14
scotland
Regardless of whether they know you derestricted or not they will work on it, you'll just have to pay for the work if they decide the warranty has been invalidated (or if the bike is outside the warranty period)
 

Mteam

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Aug 3, 2020
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iv been to 4 bike shops that iv been to in the past that know my bike is deristricted i told them before this new rule came out, all are refusing to work on my bike.

What sort of work are you asking them to do? and are you being clear you're happy to pay and not trying to claim under warranty?
 

robert

Member
Dec 12, 2018
161
14
scotland
iv been to 4 bike shops that have previously worked on my bike all are refusing to work on it saying they can be liable if they do
What sort of work are you asking them to do? and are you being clear you're happy to pay and not trying to claim under warranty?
What work on the bike are you trying to have done?
bosch 510 error code sensor fault powers laging and cuts off completely after heavy hits.one shop said 510 error code could be a sign of tampering ? iv ran out of warranty.
 

Mteam

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Aug 3, 2020
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iv been to 4 bike shops that have previously worked on my bike all are refusing to work on it saying they can be liable if they do


bosch 510 error code sensor fault powers laging and cuts off completely after heavy hits.one shop said 510 error code could be a sign of tampering ? iv ran out of warranty.

I wonder what they think they can be liable for? its not illegal to derestrict the motor and only use it on private land.

I'd have thought that if you're clear with them that you dont expect it to be covered under warranty, and that its out of warranty period regardless of whether its been derestricted or not, and you'll pay for their time and any parts needed, I cant see what their issue would be.

I suspect you will need a new motor with that error code - assuming you've done all the obvious stuff like take the derestrictor off, remove the battery and replace to force a reset, check the speed sensor wiring and other wiring, connectors etc , magnet position etc etc.

Perhaps try getting in touch with bosch directly and explain that you're not looking to be covered under any kind of warranty you just want the problem fixing and are happy to pay.
 

Jimbo Vills

E*POWAH Master
May 15, 2020
805
1,429
Kent
Some shops will supply you a speed box, fit it, work on your bike and not invalidate your warranty.... #justsaying.

If you have spesh, put a planet 3 on. take it off before you take it to the shop, it cant be traced as it's mechanical. If they say miles / battery cycles are off. Say you have a spare batt.

that's what i'd do if I was a naughty boy anyway :ROFLMAO:
 

2WheelsNot4

E*POWAH Master
Oct 17, 2021
893
693
Scotland
What bike stores have the time to trawl through data in efforts to screw you out of your warranty? Aren't they busy fixing and selling bikes?
They may have no choice and in order to get their money off the manufacturers in a warranty claim, they have to show at source the bike hasn't been tampered with.
 

maynard

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Well both my bikes are de restricted. The cube hardtail with bosch motor is done with electric tape . It's never been to a bike store. Nearly 3 yrs old now . And the Levo has a levociraptor on it . It's been too the bike store quite a few times and that's with me constantly fixing/breaking shit . Have had warranty work also . I would recommend de restricted for shore . But I also love bending the rules to suit . If ur a by the book kinda dude . more power too you . Keep that bike stock . Cos if you do have problems your probably gonna have to bullshit a bit to get what you want . Live your life to your rules .
 

Hamina

E*POWAH Master
Mar 22, 2020
497
394
FIN
If its a Bosch system they can definitely know if the bikes been derestricted.
Would you like to open how technically this is possible in case that for example the speedbox/volspeed is not installed when the bike is being serviced?

I think shops don’t have this capability currently.
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,193
4,702
Weymouth
there was a EU review of the pedelec regulations in October and as part of that there were a few lobby groups and manufacturers pushing for more to be done on tampering with the pedelec speed regulation. I have not seen any final outcome from that but the OPs experience may signify that LBS...or least those that are main brand dealers........have been given new instructions? Maybe the OP can ask one of them why the change of attitude? The issue was as far as the manufacturers were concerned that unless they took firmer steps to ensure their products conformed to the existing regulations the EU would revise those regulations.
The attached makes no mention of the EU review but does cover one of the main lobby paperss that formed part of it.

Bicycle industry fights e-bike ‘tampering’ – Pedelecs – Electric Bike Community | Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community
 

Mteam

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Aug 3, 2020
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How? Can you please send a screenshot of the diagnostic tool where it's showing that the bike was derestricted in the past?
Read this thread


For examples of how they could suspect derestricting, I don't think there's a 100% foolproof method for detecting it though.
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,193
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Weymouth
It would be very simple to build into the software a flag for any incidence of speed exceeding "X" whilst the motor was delivery power. I have no idea if that exists. Bosch did implement a system that resulted in a fault report. Just as in motor cars the Engine Control Unit retains all past fault reports so it could be done with pedelec controllers. If it is not in the current software it could easily be included in an update.
 

Mteam

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Aug 3, 2020
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It would be very simple to build into the software a flag for any incidence of speed exceeding "X" whilst the motor was delivery power. I have no idea if that exists. Bosch did implement a system that resulted in a fault report. Just as in motor cars the Engine Control Unit retains all past fault reports so it could be done with pedelec controllers. If it is not in the current software it could easily be included in an update.

The derestrictors work by modifying the signal from the speed sensor, so the motor doesn't know what speed the bike is really doing.
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
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Thats certainly the case as things stand but you can bet the software engineers of the brands/motors know exactly how the deristrictors work and how to identify their use. A correlation between power output, cadence and speed perhaps. It may even come to applying seals to various parts which if broken invalidate warranty.
 

Alexbn921

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2021
545
506
East Bay CA
It's impossible for anyone to tell if you have a planetary gear magnate for speed. In addition it is impossible for that device to damage your bike in anyway. Hacking the firmware is not a good idea and has the possibility of being traced.
 

Pdoz

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Feb 16, 2019
1,112
1,206
Maffra Victoria Australia
It's impossible for anyone to tell if you have a planetary gear magnate for speed.

Not impossible - they only need to fit gps trackers in the motors and compare gps speed to sensor speed.

I can imagine the pen pushers sitting around a table discussing the relative merits of bad pr from tracking devices compared to a defamation case when they wrongly accuse a customer of breaking the law.......
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,193
4,702
Weymouth
Not impossible - they only need to fit gps trackers in the motors and compare gps speed to sensor speed.

I can imagine the pen pushers sitting around a table discussing the relative merits of bad pr from tracking devices compared to a defamation case when they wrongly accuse a customer of breaking the law.......
Isnt it one of the Yamaha motors that can tell if the bike is ascending...maybe using GPS?
 

Pdoz

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Feb 16, 2019
1,112
1,206
Maffra Victoria Australia
Isnt it one of the Yamaha motors that can tell if the bike is ascending...maybe using GPS?

it has an inclinometer - like your phone that flips the screen randomly.

btw, I think it does retain data - at least it learns. It seems to calibrate the angle to suit different suspension sag settings. Ie the first time I rode my pwx2 in auto it didn't detect slopes untill about 25 degrees, but after a few minutes it was detecting minor gradients
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,193
4,702
Weymouth
It's impossible for anyone to tell if you have a planetary gear magnate for speed. In addition it is impossible for that device to damage your bike in anyway. Hacking the firmware is not a good idea and has the possibility of being traced.
:LOL: gear magnate for speed...a very rich person selling amphetamines??
 

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