Suspension set-up guides and info

Eddy Current

E*POWAH Master
Oct 20, 2019
578
315
NORTH Spain
It's not as simple as you're assuming.
Geometry, suspension design. antisquat and antirise all also make a difference to ride character. As does the shock used. And the rider.

Ride both and make up your own mind.

One is my RM the other is the GLP2 curve. Not easy to test at least where I live. Can we can isolate what a higher or lower average LR means, if possible? Thanks!
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,496
10,697
the internet
It's the entire leverage curve that matters. Way more than the average LR anyway.
I CBA even looking at two random bikes I have no interest in and comparing leverage curves. But it's not all that difficult to make an assumption of support/progression from a quick glance at the graphs. If you have them.

The thread's I tended as a general suspension guide for set up. Particularly for noobs. Not a guide to choosing specific kinematic traits.
I'd start a new thread for such specific questions.
 

Eddy Current

E*POWAH Master
Oct 20, 2019
578
315
NORTH Spain
It's the entire leverage curve that matters. Way more than the average LR anyway.
I CBA even looking at two random bikes I have no interest in and comparing leverage curves. But it's not all that difficult to make an assumption of support/progression from a quick glance at the graphs. If you have them.

The thread's I tended as a general suspension guide for set up. Particularly for noobs. Not a guide to choosing specific kinematic traits.
I'd start a new thread for such specific questions.

Good idea. I’ll be there ...
 

Eddy Current

E*POWAH Master
Oct 20, 2019
578
315
NORTH Spain
Yes yes I know its not stricly a suspension setup subject but neither something out of thread ... thoughts on shock needle bearing bushings? Performande improve, not better lasting and all that
 

Flatslide

E*POWAH Master
Jul 14, 2019
265
250
Dunedin NZ
Yes yes I know its not stricly a suspension setup subject but neither something out of thread ... thoughts on shock needle bearing bushings? Performande improve, not better lasting and all that
I have a Trek Remedy RSL which has the full-floater rear linkage. The lower DU bush was always creaking as the lower pin was the same 1/2" size OD as the bush ID. The pin had to be pressed into the shock DU eyelet bushing resulting in a bush that was very reluctant to move around the pin. I tried using IGUS bushes but they would rotate in the shock eyelet, making the same damn noise.
In the end I purchased a needle kit from RWC in the States, turned up some offset stainless spacers and made a new stainless through bolt to replace the alloy one. Now the bike is quiet and the suspension will begin to move by pressing down on the seat with one finger. The difference was noticeable to me as the rear shock appears to work much more nicely. But that could just be in my head-because you know-human :LOL:
 

Eddy Current

E*POWAH Master
Oct 20, 2019
578
315
NORTH Spain
I have a Trek Remedy RSL which has the full-floater rear linkage. The lower DU bush was always creaking as the lower pin was the same 1/2" size OD as the bush ID. The pin had to be pressed into the shock DU eyelet bushing resulting in a bush that was very reluctant to move around the pin. I tried using IGUS bushes but they would rotate in the shock eyelet, making the same damn noise.
In the end I purchased a needle kit from RWC in the States, turned up some offset stainless spacers and made a new stainless through bolt to replace the alloy one. Now the bike is quiet and the suspension will begin to move by pressing down on the seat with one finger. The difference was noticeable to me as the rear shock appears to work much more nicely. But that could just be in my head-because you know-human :LOL:

Ive reading about them and seems it’s more noticeable depending on the scheme of the suspension. But I wonder, why dont come stock on shocks or at least an a option from Fox or rock Shox f.e? I mean as you said seems it improves, is easy to install, not expensive ...
 

Flatslide

E*POWAH Master
Jul 14, 2019
265
250
Dunedin NZ
I'd add that the lower shock eyelet was the only bush in the rear end of the Remedy. Replacing it with a needle roller made the entire assembly operate with bearings. The Altitude is the same, except it is the top shock mount that is a bush.
 

Dave_B

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Subscriber
Aug 29, 2020
1,436
1,557
Newquay
any general tips for tuning a poppy / playful feel? add more rebound or add more pressure?
 

Mini si

Member
Dec 31, 2020
82
50
Derbyshire
Here is my question about my 2017 120 mm HT bought recently(it was unsold).
What are the advantages if i increase it to 130 mm in 2 months when the maintenance is due.
I bought the bike with 3.0x27.5, now i use a Rekon 2.8(rear) and love it. I would replace my front with a 2.8 Rekon(not available in 3.0).
I figure the longer fork would replace the BB about where it was with 2x3.0
Now i use 60PSI in the fork would that change?
The fork is SR Suntour Raidon XC-RL-R 27.5 Air 15QLC2 Remote Lockout, air/oil, Travel: 120mm, aluminium steerer tube 1 1/8" - 1 1/2" tapered, thru-axle Boost
I mesured the stanchion and they are long enough.
I hate bangning my bike so i do not want a lower BB.
I ride relaxed no big jumps/drops.
Thanks
Only just reading this thread, it made me laugh! I remember the days of getting a bargain when bikes hadn’t sold!! It really used to happen, ah the good old days...
 

JC1982

New Member
Feb 6, 2021
77
20
South Wales
Hi all

As a heavier rider at 110kgs kit included. I am experimenting with tokens on my fox 38 forks and DPX 2.

Newest settings after adjusting rebound.

Forks 119psi, 4
clicks of rebound, 1clicks com
Shock 305psi, 4 clicks of rebound, 4 clicks comp

I have put in an extra token on the 38 Float taking it to 5.

The shock I have gone to 0.83 spacer. The one before the biggest.

The reason for this is after setting sag, compression and rebound. I am finding I am travelling through the travel every ride.

My question is do you thinks that's too much rebound. First ride tonight and after putting in extra tokens and larger volume spacer. Is rebound affected, so I would need to dial it back?

Thank you.
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,496
10,697
the internet
Rebound is affected by spring rate.
Adding or removing tokens changes the spring curve so the rate will also have changed throughout the travel. So it stands to reason you'd need to alter rebound.
You can also run higher pressure and less sag with less tokens to achieve a more supportive more linear spring rate with to remove the harsh bottoming. It won't however be as supple in the initial travel.
Hope that helps a little.
 

JC1982

New Member
Feb 6, 2021
77
20
South Wales
Thank you very much Gary, appreciate it. I am new to tunning susension myself. Thus is the first time tbh.

So I think I understand. The trails I mainly ride are very rooty and tech with scattered jumps and drops.

I am trying to achieve something soft enough to track the roots, rocks and tech with a progressive travel to tackle the jumps and drops. So if I understand what your saying I am on the right route in using tokens and spacers to achieve that.

So when using tokens and spacers is there a general rule, for instance that in theory. I would then need more rebound compression to reduce the rebound being too quick? I am asking this as at 305psi I should be around at 1 to 2 clicks. In my head though, due to the roots etc. If I was to run say 4 clicks off the highest compression rebound setting. The shock would return to its full full length quicker. In turn hold itself in the more supple travel point and because of this track the ground better.
 
Last edited:

brizi2003

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
235
144
Whickham, Newcastle upon Tyne
While riding, my Rockshox Yari Charger RC fork suddenly lost all damping rebound and compression. I stripped down the damper leg and found that the nut that normally fastens the shim stack to the damper rod had detached. The nut together with several shims fell out the damper tube when it was disassembled. The glide ring stayed in the damper tube and pieces of the other shim from under the glide ring assembly were found mainly in the rebound damper seal head. A call to SRAM Tech UK confirmed that the shim is not available separately nor is the Charger RC damper assembly, but it is possible to upgrade to the Charger 2 damper (cost £250/£300). I rang some other suspension service centres who wouldn't sell the shim required but would replace it as part of a full fork service (cost £100 approx). I called a local dealer who said they had used Fox shims to do this. After my best attempt at trying to work out the size of the shim from the pieces (OD 13 x ID 7x th 0.15) I ordered a Fox shim from Silverfish, nearest size was 13.5x7.0.15. (cost £1.87 + postage). Hopefully, this will work when it arrives. I can see why SRAM don't offer this as a spare part. What a great business model!
 

urastus

⚡The Whippet⚡
May 4, 2020
1,548
994
Tasmania
compression rebound setting
Try not to get compression and rebound mixed up - they are different things. I think you mean rebound - how quickly (or slowly) the shock returns after a hit.

I'm also going through a similar process to you. I initially removed the tokens because I wasn't doing jumps or drops. Now I am doing some small jumps and drops and found I was putting more and more psi in the shock and past the recommended sag. I put the tokens back in and I'm close to recommended sag again. I've had to check rebound a few times through these changes, but surprisingly it hasn't really changed that much.

Luckily there is an easy way to tune shock rebound. I don't know if it is considered too simplistic but it suits my needs and the theory does make sense (to me). I was doing it with my partner filming on the phone, but I'm pretty sure I can feel when it is right myself now. Gary linked to this dude's videos at the start of this thread. setting up rebound
 
Last edited:

brizi2003

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
235
144
Whickham, Newcastle upon Tyne
While riding, my Rockshox Yari Charger RC fork suddenly lost all damping rebound and compression. I stripped down the damper leg and found that the nut that normally fastens the shim stack to the damper rod had detached. The nut together with several shims fell out the damper tube when it was disassembled. The glide ring stayed in the damper tube and pieces of the other shim from under the glide ring assembly were found mainly in the rebound damper seal head. A call to SRAM Tech UK confirmed that the shim is not available separately nor is the Charger RC damper assembly, but it is possible to upgrade to the Charger 2 damper (cost £250/£300). I rang some other suspension service centres who wouldn't sell the shim required but would replace it as part of a full fork service (cost £100 approx). I called a local dealer who said they had used Fox shims to do this. After my best attempt at trying to work out the size of the shim from the pieces (OD 13 x ID 7x th 0.15) I ordered a Fox shim from Silverfish, nearest size was 13.5x7.0.15. (cost £1.87 + postage). Hopefully, this will work when it arrives. I can see why SRAM don't offer this as a spare part. What a great business model!
Hi @steve_sordy Update as requested: The Fox shim was the right size and once re-assembled with the shim stack nut secured with Loctite, the fork is working perfectly. If anyone is servicing their own fork probably worth checking the shim stack nut is secure/re-apply Loctite. I would have ordered the full set of shims but couldn't get size matches for any of the others. So I was lucky that the broken shim happened to be the one I could get a perfect size match and also that I didn't damage the damper tube. By the way, SRAM Tech UK confirmed that if the fork had still been under warranty this would have been considered a fault, since the shim stack is not a servicable item (apart from the glide ring) and should never be dis-assembled or fall apart! The suggested upgrade damper units also contain shim stacks, if the same happened to them then once outside of warranty it would be necessary to buy a complete damper unit again. Perhaps something to consider in the future: As SRAM don't sell all the component parts for their forks, but offer expensive sub-assemblies instead, I might look at getting Fox next time. Is it possible to buy all the original component parts for Fox forks?
 

hainman

Member
Apr 8, 2021
72
42
Glasgow
So been on the Fox 36 grip2 a year now and still messing around with it to get it set perfect(never really understood the hi/lo compression)
So watching the video on getting progression set,never ever done this!
Do you do the bounce test with all settings fully open or with the Fox recommended settings(roughly)
I did see Lewis Buchanan do this test but with him being a pro and ride like a rocket I never bothered trying it myself
Would be handy to know if my X2 would benefit from more or less tokens and same with my forks
From new the Fox forks were normal 36’s even though on an Ebike
Never bothered chasing up the shop to get them swapped as I was told it wasn’t a big deal
Just be good to get a good ball park figure on settings
I ride a host of different trails and terrain
From the steep techy stuff at Golfie inners etc to the trail centre trails on hard pack to local rooty loamy stuff on the kilpatrick hills
So would be ideal if I had my forks dialled to just deal with all manner of terrain
 

David0208

Member
Mar 30, 2019
103
64
United Kingdom
So been on the Fox 36 grip2 a year now and still messing around with it to get it set perfect(never really understood the hi/lo compression)
So watching the video on getting progression set,never ever done this!
Do you do the bounce test with all settings fully open or with the Fox recommended settings(roughly)
I did see Lewis Buchanan do this test but with him being a pro and ride like a rocket I never bothered trying it myself
Would be handy to know if my X2 would benefit from more or less tokens and same with my forks
From new the Fox forks were normal 36’s even though on an Ebike
Never bothered chasing up the shop to get them swapped as I was told it wasn’t a big deal
Just be good to get a good ball park figure on settings
I ride a host of different trails and terrain
From the steep techy stuff at Golfie inners etc to the trail centre trails on hard pack to local rooty loamy stuff on the kilpatrick hills
So would be ideal if I had my forks dialled to just deal with all manner of terrain

Like many I struggled to get my suspension feeling just right . . . or even knowing what "feeling just right" should feel like! Whilst @Gary has give lots of useful information here and helped out many (Including myself) sometimes hearing the same thing told in a different way helps? (Am I talking about context? Maybe?)

So I had found this video a year or two ago and I found myself saying things like "Riiiiiiiiggggghhhhhttt! I think I get it now!" (Dangerous I know, especially when we're talking about suspension)

Fox GRIP2 Setup Guide & Benefits

After returning and reading the tips and info @Gary has posted, it is largely the same but now I understand Gary's posts better (No slight on @Gary definitely just me). Have a watch and see if that helps?

Having said all of that . . . I do have a question. I see on a previous post someone asked about making their bike more playful and poppier (Their word), and the answer was increase pressure and lessen rebound. Am I reading that wrong? When you say lessen rebound, do you mean returning slower? Sorry if that is a daft question, but I am good at those. ?

Thanks
 

hainman

Member
Apr 8, 2021
72
42
Glasgow
Ye lesser would mean slower
Am now on a set of 38 RS Zebs with a more simple set up for rebound and damping
Doesn’t make my brain hurt as much ?
 

steve_sordy

Wedding Crasher
Nov 5, 2018
8,679
8,948
Lincolnshire, UK
Nope to @hainman I believe that you have mis-spoken.

@David0208 The full name for Rebound is "Rebound damping". So if you reduce the damping, the fork/shock rebounds faster, not slower. In other words making the fork/shock more like an undamped spring (poppier).
 

Gary

Old Tartan Bollocks
Author
Subscriber
Mar 29, 2018
10,496
10,697
the internet
No. As Steve said. Lessening rebound damping speeds up your suspension's rebound speed
 

emtbPhil

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2021
397
438
UK
Great reading this - I'm gonna go through it all in detail after work

I've been struggling a bit with getting my Fox 34 and Fox DPS setup because... well I aint light.
Sitting at about 220lbs so the front fork is nearly maxed out on PSI

I found the rear only had a 0.4 spacer in so I swapped to a 0.6 which helped it not bottom out so often. Going to try a 0.8 next.
Just had a look at the front fork and it's only got a single spacer in and can take up to 4 - I reckon I'll try 2 or 3 in that as at Dalby it bottomed out quite a lot

#fatguyproblems
 
Last edited:

emtbPhil

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2021
397
438
UK
At 210ish naked I run max fork spacers and 1 off of max for rear. You’ll be able to drop pressures some and that should give you better small bump.
Us fat kids gotta run more compression and rebound dampening to get the same performance as the princesses.

for a baseline I’d run whatever your bike says to run for your weight and then slow rebound/compression down if you’re still learning jumps and bumps - more slow the more newb you are. This will save you an otb or two until you learn the balance point on your bike for turns and jumps (same) and don’t Effin lean back on jumps. When you parking lot test your bike while in the neutral position (hips over the BB or back an inch or 2) and hopping like a bunny the suspension should compress and rebound as close to perfectly even as possible.

Cheers mate nice to get a bit of a baseline of what others run.
I haven't had an OTB yet but the big drops at Dalby were close when the front fork bottomed out.

It is hard to get plush feeling suspension on the gravel trails and not bottom out on the downhill stuff. Might have to abuse keto and drop 30lbs haha

I've just checked and the 0.8 I've put in the rear is 1 from the highest, so I guess if I go up to 3 spacers on the front (when they arrive tomorrow) I should be pretty close! :D
 
Last edited:

Bones

E*POWAH Elite
Subscriber
Apr 3, 2020
828
1,074
Harrogate
I had problems setting up the sag on my bike. The fox factory 38s with 170mm travel need around 100 psi to keep them at full extension and stop them decreasing under the bikes own weight. This was causing the sag measurement to decrease when decreasing air pressure to suit my kitted out 87kg.
So 95psi gave about 30mm,90 gave 28mm 85 gave 25mm and so on.
I ended up taking the battery out and setting the sag with the battery in my backpack and taking my weight up to around 92kg
Still working on other settings using the bracketing method but the sag is spot on doing it that way round with the battery fitted back in the bike.
 

EMTB Forums

Since 2018

The World's largest electric mountain bike community.

536K
Messages
26,779
Members
Join Our Community

Latest articles


Top