Rail (750Wh) Bosch Smart V5 update Mileage/Speed error

JoeJ

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Feb 26, 2023
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Wales
Any updates on this, my trek rail 9.8 has been doubling all my mileage, annoying isn’t the word. Planning on contacting Trek for advise.
 

Paul Mac

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Mate had his done today with the rim magnet.
It has resolved the double mileage issue and surprise, surprise the intermittent walk mode has been resolved also.
Outrageous that Trek smart users have been supplied their expensive bikes in a sub par manner, and that the customers have had to be the ones to highlight all the issues.
 

Zimmerframe

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Mate had his done today with the rim magnet.

Whilst this might be a great solution, people should generally use someone elses computer if they're searching for Rim Magnets .. otherwise all sorts of weird results come up ..

1677513849307.png
 

Jeremybub

Member
Jan 17, 2021
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Hey all
so you can read my prior post to get all the BS I’ve gone through.
here is the update on my bike
Bo
Yes I agree. Honestly this is turning me bitter on Trek, #1 of 2 reason I purchased the Trek was because of local Trek Factory stores, I have 3 in my area and if an issue arises I could take it in, they solve it and I’m back on the trails, this is like going through a online retailer at this point with my bike being at Trek Folsom for 3 weeks this Monday! Extremely frustrating and I am sure everyone is going to feel that way soon enough.
Update on my bike, per Bosch last Monday they shipped the new Bosch parts & per Trek Folsom they did not receive as of yesterday Friday, this to me is mind blowing, did Bosch actually not ship FedEx or UPS and sent them snail mail, ah what the F, I just sent a follow up email to Jim with Bosch, we’ll see what Bosch has to say.
Hey all
So you can read my prior post to get all the BS I’ve gone through.
here is the update on my bike from today 2/27/2023
Folsom Trek received and installed the Bosch speed sensor cable and 6 bolt magnet, they took it for a test ride and NO change in Speed or Miles. Trek is at a loss still.
i spoke to Bosch and they also are at a loss, they were 100% confident by installing the Bosch speed sensor cable and magnet which does eliminate any Trek proprietary hardware it would resolved the issue & unfortunately it did not.
 

Jeremybub

Member
Jan 17, 2021
75
47
California
Mate had his done today with the rim magnet.
It has resolved the double mileage issue and surprise, surprise the intermittent walk mode has been resolved also.
Outrageous that Trek smart users have been supplied their expensive bikes in a sub par manner, and that the customers have had to be the ones to highlight all the issues.
Interesting, Trek remove the Trek sensor cable and magnet today & installed the Bosch sensor cable and 6 bolt magnet and it did not resolve the issue. can you share a photo of your buddy’s Trek Rail with the stem mount Magnet, and sleeve, also my understanding is that Bosch pushes the software to Trek to enable the motor sensor, did your buddy Trek dealer work with Bosch on this?
thanks for the help and sorry for all the question.
 

Jeremybub

Member
Jan 17, 2021
75
47
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Sorry to hear that @Jeremybub makes me pissed just reading it.

Makes me 100% certain as I stated before that this is Bosch's software issue and nothing to do with Magnets or Sensors etc
Thanks & Yeah I agree something is a rye & I am super pissed, unfortunately the Trek folks in Folsom got the brunt of it today. It’s like My Rail 9.8 is Trek & Bosch crash test dummy, redo the firmware 3 times, install a Bosch magnet, then swap the sensor wire and another new 6 bolt magnet to Bosch units, all this for the last 3 weeks and it’s yielded the same result NADA. I am meeting with Trek in the morning at 10am to discuss the last two options…
I’ll let y’all know what the outcome is.
 

JP-NZ

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2022
998
754
Christchurch - New Zealand
Thanks & Yeah I agree something is a rye & I am super pissed, unfortunately the Trek folks in Folsom got the brunt of it today. It’s like My Rail 9.8 is Trek & Bosch crash test dummy, redo the firmware 3 times, install a Bosch magnet, then swap the sensor wire and another new 6 bolt magnet to Bosch units, all this for the last 3 weeks and it’s yielded the same result NADA. I am meeting with Trek in the morning at 10am to discuss the last two options…
I’ll let y’all know what the outcome is.
Yea, I'd be putting some serious pressure on Trek and asking why they let Bosch roll out an update that does not work with Trek smart systems. Surely this issue will affect the latest 2023's Treks as well.

Crash test dummy is an understatement!
 

Paul Mac

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Guys forget the wired sensors, they don't work.
Valve mounted sensor does work,
Screenshot_20230228_074138_Google.jpg
mines getting done today.
But yes the Trek dealer has to phone Bosch for a code so they can switch the motor over to read from the valve mounted sensor.
An added bonus is your walk assist will work properly as well.
 
Last edited:

Johan Dagertun

New Member
Feb 24, 2023
10
3
Sweden
But this would not work with TyreWiz installed on a 9.9 right? My 9.9 XX1 is planned for delivery in a week or two.

Edit: what´s the deal with walk assist issues anyway? It works smooth on my 2021 Rail 9.7 today.
 
Last edited:

Zimmerframe

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But this would not work with TyreWiz installed on a 9.9 right? My 9.9 XX1 is planned for delivery in a week or two.

Edit: what´s the deal with walk assist issues anyway? It works smooth on my 2021 Rail 9.7 today.
Depending on the version of Tyrewiz you have, I believe it gets its pressure reading from the small secondary holes in the valve stem shaft. So you wouldn't be able to mount the magnet beneath it.

1677574342988.png


It might .... work if it was mounted on top of the tyre wiz - either straight on top or with a secondary valve nut. But as it wouldn't be supported by the rim, it may spin around - or even be too far away from the motor sensor.

You'd probably have to attach the rim magnet to the opposite side of the wheel - with - creativity ... Unless you can find a nice twin valve rim ... ;-)
 

blob

New Member
Feb 22, 2023
23
7
Croatia
I hope everyone at least sent an email to Trek's and Bosch's customer supports. They should be reminded that this is a real issue.
 

juice09

New Member
Feb 28, 2023
13
3
Uk
Yea, I'd be putting some serious pressure on Trek and asking why they let Bosch roll out an update that does not work with Trek smart systems. Surely this issue will affect the latest 2023's Treks as well.

Crash test dummy is an understatement!
I collected my rail 7 on Saturday, ridden it once and have the same issue. I emailed bosch through the app and this was their response. Can't say I'm overly impressed. 😏🙄

Screenshot_20230228_145209_Gmail.jpg
 

Zimmerframe

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Now you can understand why they're struggling to resolve something you'd imagine you could figure out in an hour with a pile of magnets, sensors and access to the Bosch software.

1677600683092.png


1677600666903.png
 

HeavyJ

New Member
Feb 27, 2023
10
4
PNW
No new information to add, only that I just took delivery of my Trek Rail 9.8 this weekend, and I am having the same issue. Got a response from Bosch this morning stating they are aware of the issue..
We are already aware of the problem and are investigating it. First results indicate that the signal transmission of the speed sensor is not correctly recorded, so that the distance calculation is carried out incorrectly. This probably depends on the speed sensor configuration or on how the sensor is installed on the eBike. At the moment, we are not able to define any corrective measures, but we are checking whether the problem can be solved with a software update, which we will then make available as soon as possible. As the calculation of the current speed is not affected by this problem and the motor support is therefore not impaired, you will not notice any restrictions in the riding experience and you can continue using your eBike. While our investigations are ongoing, we kindly ask for your patience.
 

JP-NZ

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Feb 17, 2022
998
754
Christchurch - New Zealand
No new information to add, only that I just took delivery of my Trek Rail 9.8 this weekend, and I am having the same issue. Got a response from Bosch this morning stating they are aware of the issue..
Of course saying its fine to carry on using whilst your odometer moves up at twice the standard rate and nothing from them on how they will fix that issue.
 

Mikerb

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May 16, 2019
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From what has been reported a bove today it seems the only element of the speed sensor operation left ( ie its not the magnet or the sensor) is the calculator method used in the motor firmware. That method is probably different for the Rim Magnet/ motor sensor arrangement.........at least as far as how the original calculator method , as implemented, it would seem, only by Trek, is concerned.

All of that suggests there must have been firmware menu options which Trek opted to implement whilst ( it appears) no other brand did.

The difference in the calculator method ( sensor actuation X pye X wheel diameter) would appear to be the same in the new firmware for dynamic speed but modified for total mileage and average speed.......................all of which suggests it was changed to help detect derestriction.

Playing devils advocate I wonder if Bosch do in fact know about a specific Trek only option in the firmware but are unwilling to undo the changes they have made, which could lead to Trek bikes being able to be derestricted (or a t least detected) whilst other brands could not. Otherwise, I cannot believe the software engineers who developed the firmware and update do not know how to fix it.
 

JP-NZ

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Feb 17, 2022
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Christchurch - New Zealand
Guys forget the wired sensors, they don't work.
Valve mounted sensor does work, mines getting done today.
But yes the Trek dealer has to phone Bosch for a code so they can switch the motor over to read from the valve mounted sensor.
An added bonus is your walk assist will work properly as well.
What part of the frame does the rim mount magnet take its reading? Where is the rim mount sensor located or does it use the factory mounted Trek sensor?
 

Paul Mac

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What part of the frame does the rim mount magnet take its reading? Where is the rim mount sensor located or does it use the factory mounted Trek sensor?
There is no external sensor, the sensor is built in the motor.
 

Zimmerframe

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What part of the frame does the rim mount magnet take its reading? Where is the rim mount sensor located or does it use the factory mounted Trek sensor?
The gen4 smart has an inbuilt halls sensor on the back of the actual motor - so you don't need to use a satellite cable/sensor.

You mount a larger magnet on the actual rim (as pictured in the thread elsewhere) attached by the valve stem.

Bosch then have to make the change to swap the system to use the in built sensor (via a code) I have heard it can't be swapped back, but that would most likely be rumour/Bosch policy to stop de-restriction (as it's far easier to de-restrict using the satellite sensor)
 

Paul Mac

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The gen4 smart has an inbuilt halls sensor on the back of the actual motor - so you don't need to use a satellite cable/sensor.

You mount a larger magnet on the actual rim (as pictured in the thread elsewhere) attached by the valve stem.

Bosch then have to make the change to swap the system to use the in built sensor (via a code) I have heard it can't be swapped back, but that would most likely be rumour/Bosch policy to stop de-restriction (as it's far easier to de-restrict using the satellite sensor)
My dealer told me that now the internal sensor has been activated, he can now toggle between both sensors on his Bosch dealer computer, so you can change back if necessary.
 

Zimmerframe

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The difference in the calculator method ( sensor actuation X pye X wheel diameter) would appear to be the same in the new firmware for dynamic speed but modified for total mileage and average speed.......................all of which suggests it was changed to help detect derestriction.
I think we've proposed this as being the issue from the start (even before it became it's own thread...)

Playing devils advocate I wonder if Bosch do in fact know about a specific Trek only option in the firmware but are unwilling to undo the changes they have made, which could lead to Trek bikes being able to be derestricted (or a t least detected) whilst other brands could not. Otherwise, I cannot believe the software engineers who developed the firmware and update do not know how to fix it.

I don't think so. I still think it's purely down to how the trek sensor is placed in a different position/angle, combined with a larger magnet to obtain a reading. This doesn't always work and sometimes the magnet needs to be manually adjusted as proposed earlier in the thread as a possible solution to this problem.

Swapping to the Trek sensor/magnet doesn't necessarily cure the problem if we don't know how they've mounted it and in what combination and spacing - ie, done in such a way that the more de-restriction sensitive firmware, still thinks somethings not right so it doubles up.

For all the electronic de-restrictors, it won't matter what sensor feeds into the unit as the unit will output it's own signal which will only be based on pulse frequency, not strength/time/echo's. Though with the Gen4 smart, some will need to vary that signal output to reflect what's expected at given rotation speeds.

For the mechanical de-restrictors, it would be interesting to know if anyone with a planet3 has this problem, or if because of how the magnet is mounted, everything actually works just as before - which as @Paul Mac said earlier, it would be ironic to use a de-restriction device to actually fix this problem, but even more ironic if the firmware mods made to limit de-restriction, actually don't affect some of the bikes which are derestricted whilst affecting the bikes which are standard :-D

Either way, I can't imagine someone at Bosch fecking something up on purpose out of spite for one of their largest customers. Naivety, lack of thought, inexperience - yes, more likely.
 

Paul Mac

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The secondary issue to come out if this for me, is that the walk mode works now also.
This indicates to me that the Trek wired sensor has never worked properly, even before the new firmware mucked up the mileage .
 

Paul Mac

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What was the problem before?
On the 2022 smart system Rails, the walk mode was intermittent.
It would walk forward a few feet, then stop the go forward then stop and so on, making it unusable.
It now works constantly as it does on other bikes .
 

Rob Rides EMTB

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On the 2022 smart system Rails, the walk mode was intermittent.
It would walk forward a few feet, then stop the go forward then stop and so on, making it unusable.
It now works constantly as it does on other bikes .
I always thought my trek was a bit weird with the walk assist when other Bosch Smart bikes worked really well. Makes sense now.
 

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