My Chinese frame and motor build. The CHEEB, V1.0 - Build Thread

[Rob Rides EMTB]

You've got time to paint those forks in that case...

Feck that! Never painting a frame again ? A lot of work. Also I like the slab grey Zeb / purple contrast ?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Nice looking bike, awesome build! ??
Did you already weight the bike?

Yes. 24.5 KG.
could be easily under 24 with Lyrik and DHF / DHR combo. These tyres weigh 1.3Kg each and the fork is 2.2KG.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Thanks. Not too bad then. Most of my projects end up rather more expensive than anticipated...

Thats some expensive paint! Worth it though. Looks ace.

I wasted a lot of the paint as my technique was bad. Also the flip colour paint is super expensive. Half the paint costs for a flat colour and a better technique!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

For anyone who is in need of the chain ring locknut tool, I’m 90% sure this one will work. It’ll be here on Sunday so I’ll let you know.

Yosoo Health Gear Alloy Steel Durable Compact YC-29BB Bicycle Bottom Bracket Tool Repair Wrench Spanner For Most Bikes

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Didn't it come with the motor?

Nope. No tools (or any instructions) are supplied with the frame / motor / battery packages.

 

[patdam]

modification done to avoid that a pebble gets stuck in the swinging arm

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Well, it goes! Really well. Very brief ride round the 'hood. Mrs not happy for obvious reasons today!!

Motor response is pretty good, I tested it in the highest mode, just for a laugh. Seems punchy. Obviously only a very quick test and no real hills here.

Really quiet under load. Possibly quieter than all the gear driven motors (Bosch / Yamaha / Shimano etc) and comparable to belt driven Brose, maybe quieter, although no experience yet under strain / heat buildup etc...

Screen is pretty crap in sunlight. Mode selector is proper plastic feeling, bit cheap, but works OK.

Brief bike feel: with the 170mm fork might have screwed around with the geo a bit. I have ordered an offset bushing and will try with my 160mm Lyrik and with the offset bushing hopefully I can reduce the BB height (its pretty high in my setup with the mullet / 170mm fork - around 355mm). Moving down on the fork height, with the offset bushings should maintain the 64 degree(ish) Head Angle but also reduce the BB height.

I will let you know how I get on.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Fabricate a custom mount to lower the motor and hence bottom bracket by 20mm.

A bit of steel plate and a drill should do the job

I’m using these:

How Offset Bushings Work

Learn about the benefits of Offset Bushings, how to install them and how they're made. We produce bushings for almost all bike & shock manufacturers.

www.offsetbushings.com

Easy and pretty cheap.

 

[Pyr0]

No idea! I’m waiting for a Bafang chainring lock nut ?

Nope. No tools (or any instructions) are supplied with the frame / motor / battery packages.

So just to clarify...
You didn't get a chainring locknut with the motor, or the tool to tighten it?
Tbh I didn't expect them to supply a tool, but would have thought the locknut would be included.
Where did you order the locknut and what was the cost?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

So just to clarify...
You didn't get a chainring locknut with the motor, or the tool to tighten it?
Tbh I didn't expect them to supply a tool, but would have thought the locknut would be included.
Where did you order the locknut and what was the cost?

Sorry - to clarify. Locknut included but tool to tighten not included.

here’s the tool I’ve ordered: (EDIT - Tool fits perfectly, get this one!)

Yosoo Health Gear Alloy Steel Durable Compact YC-29BB Bicycle Bottom Bracket Tool Repair Wrench Spanner For Most Bikes



until then I’ve used the classic mallet and screwdriver technique ?

 

[CRFan1]

For anyone who is in need of the chain ring locknut tool, I’m 90% sure this one will work. It’ll be here on Sunday so I’ll let you know.

Yosoo Health Gear Alloy Steel Durable Compact YC-29BB Bicycle Bottom Bracket Tool Repair Wrench Spanner For Most Bikes




View attachment 48086

Rob not sure you know yet but that lock ring is reverse thread.....lefty tighty, righty loosey, lol

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@patdam did you try the bike with both mullet and 29?

also the cable for the mode selection switch seems to be quite short. Mine is only 300mm - meaning I have to run the control quite far away from hands

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Another quick ride today. Only 15 mins, nothing technical.

Bafang M500 Motor

So far its pretty impressive:

• Motor is smooth and progressive in delivering the power, pretty instantly engaging and assisting
• Seems like there's not as much 'instant kick' power as Bosch, takes a couple of revolutions to really punch, perhaps having a more natural feeling
• Once you get going it feels like a nice chunk of power, between 5-15 mph it really pulls
• Very very quiet on load under full power. Not tested on rough stuff yet to see what its like under coasting / unloaded noise
• Instant engagement from the motor / zero crank play before engagement

Dengfu E10 Frame

Feels pretty good so far but early days. At the moment I'm just making sure it is set up correctly rather than focussing on performance aspect. With the 170mm travel / 155mm rear its super plush as you'd expect.

Again, frame is totally silent, no creaks, knocking or noises. I already added some really thin (1mm) 3M rubber tape on each side of the battery compartment to reduce any battery rattles, as well as on the underside of the battery cover itself. I also filled some parts of the frame with bubble wrap to reduce any cable slap inside.

Some Stats / Geometry on my setup

• 505mm Reach
• 63.8 degree head angle with the RockShox 170mm Zeb
• 29er front, 27.5 rear
• 455mm chain stay
• 348mm BB height
• 24.5KG

Got to say so far I'm pretty impressed. Although I have only been riding around paved stuff. But I have a feeling it's going to be a proper capable enduro ebike.

Things to do:

• Fix display to the 35mm bar. Bafang display is setup for a 31.8mm bar, clamp is too small
• Get a longer cable between the remote control and display. Its too short
• Find 2x bolts to fix the bash guard
• Sort out chain length. 116 link chain seems to short (I think its a 40t chain ring)
• Try with 29er wheels front and rear and 160mm fork, offset bushings in the RockShox Super Deluxe to drop BB
• Ride some actual trails

 

[Mteam]

Is the frame designed to be run with a 27. 5 rear wheel? I presume so, as the bb would be ridiculously high with a 29 wheel in there. Or is it supposed to be a pure 27.5 wheeled bike? The current high bb would make sense if the bike was designed as a 27.5 bike,but you've put a 29 wheel on the front.

I'd be tempted to put a 27.5 wheel on the front but keeping the same fork, I prefer 27.5 anyway.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Is the frame designed to be run with a 27. 5 rear wheel? I presume so, as the bb would be ridiculously high with a 29 wheel in there. Or is it supposed to be a pure 27.5 wheeled bike? The current high bb would make sense if the bike was designed as a 27.5 bike,but you've put a 29 wheel on the front.

I'd be tempted to put a 27.5 wheel on the front but keeping the same fork, I prefer 27.5 anyway.

Its prob designed around a 150 fork and 27.5. I have totally butchered it.

I'm going to try a single offset bushing, that'll reduce the BB height by 5mm (so it'll be 343mm, for comparison, the Santa Cruz Bullit is 349mm BB height). It'll also slacken the HA to around 63.3 degree (not that I want that, but a side effect of offset bushing).

Obviously a 155/170 travel bike weighted with rider sag will have bigger sag drop (proportionally) than a shorter travel bike, so I think BB height not going to be too far off when loaded with rider.

 

[patdam]

@patdam did you try the bike with both mullet and 29?

also the cable for the mode selection switch seems to be quite short. Mine is only 300mm - meaning I have to run the control quite far away from hands

I have tried in 29 and the bike working so wel, that i think i will stay with it, if i install 27.5 rear, i will reduce forks angle, lower BB, Not the right direction for me. The only problem is in short corner, it is the only point where dengfu is less efficient than spectral on (my other bike). The only solution for me could be reduce arms lengtht.

About remote wire, alike power supply wire, i does increase the legth, they are to short.

Today in classic ride with my friends (1400 D+ 40 km), where i return with +- 30% of battery with shimano, with dengfu i have 75%, without noise, with a lot of control and trust on the bike, less tired. I appreciate a lot this bike

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Yes it came stock with a 40t - these Bafang motors usually are paired with crazy high speed derestricted bikes with 1000-1500w power. So assuming a 40t works well on those.

only thing I have is a 32t so that’s going on for the time being.

also I managed to correctly get BB height -I’d say more like 348mm looking down the barrel of the bottom bracket

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@patdam how did you extend the cable wire to the controller?

 

[patdam]

@patdam how did you extend the cable wire to the controller?

cut, wheld another cable interfaced, most simply solution.

 

[patdam]

I absolutely love my spectral, I got it for a steal I reckon. Just under 3 k brand new in June, with pretty good components I think.
However, if / when it fails its probably gonna be a nightmare to get it sorted so I'm always interested in what else is around for similar money. Seems to me like I'm going to struggle to get anything anywhere near as good for the same money! Even doing it the way Rob has here.

Me too (liking the spectral frame, not the motor). But now with comparaison with dengfu, i understand it is exigent. physically and technically (sorry if i do not use right terms), dengfu is more easy and permissive all other phase, except very short turn. I am a lot of less tired and less "afraid time" with the dengfu (motor + frame couple). I did not say this is a better bike, it depend of that you looking for, play bike or serious bike. My initial choice was to install an M500 on the canyon. Now i am fully satisfy by the dengfu and i discover the pleasure to have an "easy bike", who give a lot of trust, warned loose of grip and facilitate control. But may be if i do not sale the canyon, in sometime i will done my first wish

 

[apac]

@patdam how did you extend the cable wire to the controller?

Time to do a bit of soldering me thinks.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Another short ride today on some actual trails.

Bafang M500 Motor:

• Power delivery feels stronger than the Shimano EP8 / E8000, but less than the Bosch / Brose. The display registered a peak of 580 watts on a short climb
• Motor software is good - no spikes / surges, feels good from a stop
• Characteristics feel more like the Yamaha PWX-2 (no power surges, just linear power)
• Super super quiet. I'd say its slightly louder on power than the EP8 and significantly quieter than the Bosch Gen4 and Brose
• I didn't notice any clunking / rattling from the motor
• I'd think this will be a mile monster, with the 840Wh battery, depending on motor efficiency I think it'll out last most ebike systems (all other things being fairly equal)

Dengfu E10 Frame

• I want to find something I don't like but at the moment its pretty faultless
• Feels stiff, very quiet. I think the only thing I may find is the frame is too stiff (will see as soon as I get to Surrey Hills)
• Was soaking wet today. I've already applied some ACF50 to the internal electrics areas. Will see how I get along with water ingress

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

• Was soaking wet today. I've already applied some ACF50 to the internal electrics areas. Will see how I get along with water ingress

spray or grease?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

spray or grease?

Spray. Didn't realise they did a grease to be honest!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Thanks for the update Rob! All in, how much money do you have into this bike out of curiosity?

Total cost £4049

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Im asking because i need to do something with my Levo, Wales is pretty wet right now!
I used to use an old tub of ??????(name missing) dielectric grease / electrical cleaner - found in a farm building that was used for keeping the shit out of JCB and tractor electrics, but thats all gone now. you could spread the stuff everywhere, messy but worked really well.. not found anything like it since and looking for a replacement.
so did you simply spray the connectors etc?

ACF50 - just spray onto electrics and wipe off with a rag. I used to use the stuff on all my motorbikes in the UK winters and it lasted forever. Its quite a thick viscosity so sticks well.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I agree with most of your appreciation rob but this "I may find is the frame is too stiff (will see as soon as I get to Surrey Hills)". Are you sur about your suspension setting ? have you any sag (mini 30% rear) ?

Yes, suspension setup is correct.

What I mean by this is some cheaper carbon ebikes I have tried I have found very very stiff. Laterally too stiff.

I find the Cube frame (and some others) very stiff, like there's too much carbon layup / resins. It can make for a more harsh and unforgiving ride, compared to a frame that has had more composite engineering.

Specialized carbon frames, for example; I have found to have a more forgiving ride. My thoughts are that they are adding stiffness, but importantly some flexibility in some areas, due to more thorough composite engineering and testing.

Basically, not all carbon is created equal and not all carbon layups ride and feel the same. Not hugely noticeable and some will also depend on a lot more than carbon (frame kinematics etc etc) but definitely can make a difference.

 

[patdam]

Yes, suspension setup is correct.

What I mean by this is some cheaper carbon ebikes I have tried I have found very very stiff. Laterally too stiff.

I find the Cube frame (and some others) very stiff, like there's too much carbon layup / resins. It can make for a more harsh and unforgiving ride, compared to a frame that has had more composite engineering.

Specialized carbon frames, for example; I have found to have a more forgiving ride. My thoughts are that they are adding stiffness, but importantly some flexibility in some areas, due to more thorough composite engineering and testing.

Basically, not all carbon is created equal and not all carbon layups ride and feel the same. Not hugely noticeable and some will also depend on a lot more than carbon (frame kinematics etc etc) but definitely can make a difference.

"forgiving ride " it is exactly the point most notable for me with the dengfu. But all is relatif, my better ebike reference is the spectral on, who do no allow mistake. Not dangerous, it do not eject you but it left out the trajectory at any mistake of position. unlike the dengfu, who is more tolerant and gradually drops out.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Interesting! That is actually much more then I would have thought considering I got my X1 for 4K U.S. with options and the 600 motor. Still looks like a great deal overall though.

Sure - Could have built it for a lot less. Fork / shock and wheelset cost £1500 on this bike.

Luna buy the frames and motors in bulk and will get a much better price than a single consumer purchase.Luna spec a Yari, Monarch shock and budget wheelset - big saving there too ?

 

[CRFan1]

Sure - Could have built it for a lot less. Fork / shock and wheelset cost £1500 on this bike.

Luna buy the frames and motors in bulk and will get a much better price than a single consumer purchase.Luna spec a Yari, Monarch shock and budget wheelset - big saving there too ?

You have a good point.......I did put Carbon wheels with DTSwiss 350 hubs and a Rockshox Vivid RC2 coil on mine (and an air spring upgrade on my Yari) so my total would be about 5200 US, lol That Monarch shock was a piece of junk, haha. The coil shock made a HUGE difference.