Avinox launch 1500w M2S motor and cheaper M2 motor

Wojtek said:
you are totally right!

it is an interesting point about having 2 different battery chemistries/capacity/charge and discharge rates.. I don't know enough but the fact there are 3rd party REs compatible with all Amflow bikes suggests it is not a big challenge. I would only think that both internal and external battery would discharge at the same time with the same rate?
As the 700wh has higher discharge rate than the RE, will pairing PX with an extender limit the continuous peak power of 1500W?
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My thinking on this is, who cares?

A couple of points:
1) Isn't 30 seconds in boost at 1500w/ 150nm enough for literally anything you might encounter on a trail?
2) If the point is to have a long ride day, that requires the use of a RE, conserving battery watthours should be a significant consideration.
3) Riding with others? Do they all have M2s with 700wh batteries? Probably not.

This is right up there with the 'I still need my water bottle holder when I'm using a RE!' crowd. No, you don't because a water bottle isn't enough for a 5+ hour ride.
 
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Can anyone tell me if the Avinox systems can be charged via the port in the bed of a Toyota Tacoma? Do those ports in the bed have enough power running to them to do that?
 
Wojtek said:
you are totally right!

it is an interesting point about having 2 different battery chemistries/capacity/charge and discharge rates.. I don't know enough but the fact there are 3rd party REs compatible with all Amflow bikes suggests it is not a big challenge. I would only think that both internal and external battery would discharge at the same time with the same rate?
As the 700wh has higher discharge rate than the RE, will pairing PX with an extender limit the continuous peak power of 1500W?
Click to expand...

My thinking on this is, who cares?

A couple of points:
1) Isn't 30 seconds in boost at 1500w/ 150nm enough for literally anything you might encounter on a trail? Some would argue that it's way too much for bikes or trail riding, at any time.
2) If the point is to have a long ride day, that requires the use of a RE, conserving battery watthours should be a significant consideration.
3) Riding with others? Do they all have M2s with 700wh batteries? Probably not.

This is right up there with the 'I still need my water bottle holder when I'm using a RE!' crowd. No you don't because a water bottle is
 
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haromania said:
Can anyone tell me if the Avinox systems can be charged via the port in the bed of a Toyota Tacoma? Do those ports in the bed have enough power running to them to do that?
Click to expand...
Apparently ...
Google says 400W/110V outlet, but other sources say only 400W while stationary, not while driving -> 100W.
So Slow Charger only, while stationary.
There is a kit available (apparently!) to convert to full time. Or just use while parked !

 
Suns_PSD said:
My thinking on this is, who cares?

A couple of points:
1) Isn't 30 seconds in boost at 1500w/ 150nm enough for literally anything you might encounter on a trail? Some would argue that it's way too much for bikes or trail riding, at any time.
2) If the point is to have a long ride day, that requires the use of a RE, conserving battery watthours should be a significant consideration.
3) Riding with others? Do they all have M2s with 700wh batteries? Probably not.

This is right up there with the 'I still need my water bottle holder when I'm using a RE!' crowd. No you don't because a water bottle is
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This is where I am.
1) I'm pretty sure I'd never want or need that power. I'd probably limit it far lower - more control at a 85nm/400w would probably be enough but I've not ridden an amflow for any length of time
2) With a RE on you're back to not worrying about conserving battery again in most situations
3) The immediate issue is a lot of riders on Amflows with 800w batteries.
 
The UCI approved M2S Version

Screenshot_20260421_150955_Instagram(1).webp
 
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This piece is probably relevant with regard to RE's. Looking at 'absolute watts' for clarity you can see the difference between the Avinox 700 and 800 battery performances. Now as you say, is this a real life issue? For many of us probably not - rides tend to not be flat out in situations where you can use full power continuously. Climbing on a UK public right of way or Singletrack? Very unlikely - tight, short, not that much altitude gain. In the European mountains however, I could see people climbing 600, 800m vertical or more in a single run, all of it being on wide gravel track in hot sun where they'd see some thermal issues. they could chill out a bit, and enjoy the ride, but there are times I can see you'd hit feel it.

www.ebike-lab.de

E-Bike Motor Overheating & Derating Test | E-Bike Lab

20 minutes full load uphill simulation. Which e-bike motors throttle performance due to heat? The hard facts.
www.ebike-lab.de www.ebike-lab.de
 
Petrex said:
Apparently ...
Google says 400W/110V outlet, but other sources say only 400W while stationary, not while driving -> 100W.
So Slow Charger only, while stationary.
There is a kit available (apparently!) to convert to full time. Or just use while parked !

Click to expand...
The avinox charger draws 508W so I think it would be too much
 
haromania said:
Can anyone tell me if the Avinox systems can be charged via the port in the bed of a Toyota Tacoma? Do those ports in the bed have enough power running to them to do that?
Click to expand...
I'd be shocked. Those "400 watt" ports are extremely optimistic. They couldn't even run my laptop charger.
 
Petrex said:
Indeed, exactly what I said
"Slow Charger only, while stationary."
Click to expand...
The fast one is 12A and the slow 4A, so even if its 1/3 the slow charger probably wouldn't work either (around 170W)

Apologies, I thought I was replying to the original post from haromania originally aswell.

​

 
The more I read about the capability or shall I say , lack thereof.. charging ability for those ports in the back of tacomas, I don't think there's any chance it'll work.
 
haromania said:
The more I read about the capability or shall I say , lack thereof.. charging ability for those ports in the back of tacomas, I don't think there's any chance it'll work.
Click to expand...

Not sure when you are planning on replacing your pickup, but next time keep an eye on the Ford Powerboost as a purchase option. It's got a 40A generator function (it's a mild hybrid). The thing can run my entire home, a welder, and can certainly fast charge an e-bike.
 
Suns_PSD said:
Not sure when you are planning on replacing your pickup, but next time keep an eye on the Ford Powerboost as a purchase option. It's got a 40A generator function (it's a mild hybrid). The thing can run my entire home, a welder, and can certainly fast charge an e-bike.
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Tossing a dc/dc charger, an inverter, and a battery on to ones existing vehicle is easy enough.
I can charge out of my van's auxiliary batteries, and have it replenish itself via solar before I can even finish draining the bike's battery.
 
haromania said:
The more I read about the capability or shall I say , lack thereof.. charging ability for those ports in the back of tacomas, I don't think there's any chance it'll work.
Click to expand...
It's the same "400w" in a Transit, I think you could use it to trickle charge a powerstation like an ecoflow delta or Jackery. That would have to be out of the weather and is another cost.
 
TG73 said:
It's the same "400w" in a Transit, I think you could use it to trickle charge a powerstation like an ecoflow delta or Jackery. That would have to be out of the weather and is another cost.
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A proper inverter directly wired to the car battery is the simplest, but kind of sucks in that you have to leave the vehicle running while you charge.
An 800wh bike battery translates to roughly 21ah of 12v battery.
The average truck battery is 100ah, but is lead acid/agm, and so only has a useful capacity of 50ah. So you could maybe pull one charge out of a truck battery and still have enough truck battery to start the vehicle. Smaller vehicles will have even less capacity available.
 
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At this point I think my best bet is to just buy a small gas generator from Harbor Freight or Northern Tool. Guaranteed ro work, could leave it running in the bed during transit if I had to.. cheap. Don't have to rely on solar.
 
haromania said:
At this point I think my best bet is to just buy a small gas generator from Harbor Freight or Northern Tool. Guaranteed ro work, could leave it running in the bed during transit if I had to.. cheap. Don't have to rely on solar.
Click to expand...
I would also consider a battery / solar generator as previously mentioned. Generators going to be large and noisy and really overkill for the sub 600w load even the fast charger will demand, also looking at HF cheaper as well. Of course it's a bit use case dependent but if you are only after one extra charge then a 1kwh battery should be enough to get full recharge of the 800wh DJI bike battery. You could also supplement the aftermarket battery capacity by charging it off the 100w dc or even the 400w ac (if applicable, looks like some don't like the non-sinewave power of that taco outlet) while charging the DJI. Charing the bike for two hours from dead might pull 700wh but then with the DC outlet in your taco could add 200wh back into it, so only a 500wh loss. Potentially allowing 2 almost full recharges for a 1kwh solar battery. Also no worries about recharging the bike while driving unlike a generator.
 
Bengy22 said:
I would also consider a battery / solar generator as previously mentioned. Generators going to be large and noisy and really overkill for the sub 600w load even the fast charger will demand, also looking at HF cheaper as well. Of course it's a bit use case dependent but if you are only after one extra charge then a 1kwh battery should be enough to get full recharge of the 800wh DJI bike battery. You could also supplement the aftermarket battery capacity by charging it off the 100w dc or even the 400w ac (if applicable, looks like some don't like the non-sinewave power of that taco outlet) while charging the DJI. Charing the bike for two hours from dead might pull 700wh but then with the DC outlet in your taco could add 200wh back into it, so only a 500wh loss. Potentially allowing 2 almost full recharges for a 1kwh solar battery. Also no worries about recharging the bike while driving unlike a generator.
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Based on your comments I had to go check out the fast charger specs.
I had always assumed when they said 4 amps, or 12 amps, they meant 4/12 amps of 120v ac, or 480/1440 watts respectively.
12a/500w of charging power on a battery of this capacity is weak sauce, never mind the 4a/152w standard charger.
My mind has been blown.

The molicell p60c's would be a massive upgrade over the currently used m58t's.
The charge rates are pathetic on the 58t's to maintain their 500 cycle lifespan. The 60c's can literally be charged 5 times faster.
 
zizajaun said:
You need 10 cells in series to reach 36V, so 700 Wh is probably the minimum (and maximum) for this bike. That said, I think a range extender would require a voltage converter somewhere anyway (to match the voltage of the extender and main batteries), so maybe they aren't limited by that?
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Dual Battery Discharge Balancer is what is needed, it becomes the “mixer”
This is the most common solution for range extenders. It is a small module that sits between your two batteries and the motor controller. The module uses high-power diodes or MOSFETs to allow current to flow from both batteries into the motor while preventing current from flowing between the batteries. It prevents the "Equalization Current" disaster. If you connect a full battery to a half-empty battery directly, the voltage difference causes a massive, uncontrolled surge of current that can melt connectors or trigger a fire.

Most mixers draw from the battery with the higher voltage first. Once the voltages equalize, it draws from both simultaneously, reducing the load (and heat) on each individual cell.
 
ntm95 said:
Not according to the forbidden spec sheet.

Dreadnought E : Forbidden Bike Company

High-Pivot Witchcraft
forbiddenbike.com forbiddenbike.com
Click to expand...

Yeah nah, this from the Forbidden site..

Spec-wise, for the M2S, which comes on our Tier 1 and Tier 2 builds, you’re looking at 130 Nm of torque (150 Nm in boost) and 1300 watts of peak power in a 2.6 Kg package. For the M2, which comes on our Tier 3 and Tier 4 builds, you’re looking at 110 Nm of torque (125 Nm in boost) and 1100 watts of peak power in a 2.65 Kg package.
 
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