A stronger Bosch SX and improvements for the CX coming on July 14th

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Ok second day of testing turbo in 750w 100Nm:

First climb early morning: 700m up in 40 minutes, continuous climbing and temps around 25c: no derating.

Evening ride at 32c:
250m x2 with short descent between each climb: no derating
Third 400m continuous climb: derating toward the top
 
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For what its worth here are my settings

Eco 60nm - get home when the battery is going flat setting
Tour+ 70nm - my "mid power" setting when i'm running the 400wh battery
Emtb 85nm - go to setting for most general riding
Emtb+ 100nm - all ramped up to plus 5 everything. My full jandle tech climbing setting.

That give me a range of settings and power consumptions.

I am a mode change slut and will milk the battery the best I can even if its an full speed session, i'm flicking down settings the second that more power setting isn't adding value. I like a lighter bike and smaller batteries rather than just burn full power big battery everywhere.

I did a 3hr ride yesterday with the 600wh battery and had 6% left at the end. I used all settings including emtb+ smashing up technical ups.
 
Bogdan_CH said:
Wonderin how did you know it's was throttling down? You felt it? Got a message on the display or something?
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The bike acts like you are in Eco, huge power down.

I don't see any visual indicator of this, on my old giant bike the mode would clearly change down 1-2 levels.
 
Huh; I've got a Gen4 (Trek Rail 9.8) and could not get the update to finish successfully after multiple attempts. Was just about to take to the LBS and poof, my "one more time" try actually completed (while I was out on a ride having a break, so odd). But, alas, no eMTB+ showed up. The drive/smart controller/etc. all have new firmware versions -- 16.xx.xx (previous was 15.xx.xx). So, I guess I get to visit the LBS after all.
 
Have you gone into "edit modes".....where you see a complete list of modes and you can select a max imum of 4. Emtb+ will be one of the modes on the list.
 
Someone said the Gen 4 Race motor (CX-R?) would be e-MTB+ but so far on my iPhone, I have not seen it available. Will try to update again.
 
I don't know if you already know this from the long list of posts about the update....but it all depends on firstly having the latest version of Flow on your phone. The latest version is 1.28 and if that update is available on your apps store it will have an "UPDATE" button highlighted. Hitting that button will update you Flow....then when you connect to the bike the update should start automatically.
If you have done that but cannot see emtb+....see my post above.
Of course it could be that emtb+ is not required for the race motor given emtb on that motor is already the full monty
 
F4Flyer said:
Someone said the Gen 4 Race motor (CX-R?) would be e-MTB+ but so far on my iPhone, I have not seen it available. Will try to update again.
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According to the Bosch website the previous Race motor will get eMTB+ with the performance update.

The CX-R is the recently announced new Race motor based on the BDU38 models and comes with all the new performance updates already installed.

On iOS there was a second update for the Flow app yesterday to fix an error at the end of the performance update process. You need to look for version 1.28.11. Try that one for your Race motor.

Bosch says:
1752946895597.png


And they kind of show the differences with this graph
1752947010107.png
 
I rode the update today and EMTB+ is pretty good, especially on steep climbs when you are in maybe to high a gear but does eat up the battery.
 
RustyIron said:
Good question.
Now that we have EMTB+, Turbo seems pointless.

EMTB+ gives us 400% maximum assistance, while Turbo is limited to 340%.

For EMTB+, assistance increases at a lower rate when rider input is lower. The rate increases as rider input increases, and then levels off as assistance approaches maximum. For Turbo, the amount of assistance increases linearly with rider input.

EMTB+ provides more power and more sensible delivery. Turbo is so 2024. Even Race mode in the Race Motors has been surpassed.
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Not true. Race mode has always had 400% assistance. It is a more aggressive ramp up to 400% than EMTB+ is. There is a graph, (see above ) from the Bosch site.
 
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Control and traction in Emtb+ are insane! Was able to wheelie across a rut on one of the steepest loosest sections I climb, and was able to hold the wheelie 🤙
 
Mikerb said:
Have you gone into "edit modes".....where you see a complete list of modes and you can select a max imum of 4. Emtb+ will be one of the modes on the list.
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Yep. EMTB+ isn’t an option to select. Current version of the flow app, etc. Guess I’ll have to visit my LBS.
 
Onetime said:
Not true. Race mode has always had 400% assistance. It is a more aggressive ramp up to 400% than EMTB+ is. There is a graph that shows this a couple pages back from the Bosch site.
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Yeah, it's true. The race mode gain is linear. The EMTB+ gain varies more sensibly with user input. If some people want linear gain, the race mode is still there for them. That's why Bosch provides so many modes: to meet the needs of a variety of riders with varied tastes.
 
I still don't have it. Gen 4 Race motor here and app is updated. Would be cool to try it but the Race is way too much on trails here.
 
F4Flyer said:
I still don't have it. Gen 4 Race motor here and app is updated. Would be cool to try it but the Race is way too much on trails here.
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I also have the G4 Race and I updated mine last night without any issues. You might have to go to your LBS if it’s not showing up on your app. Did you delete and reinstall your flow app? If not, try that first. I use race all the time on my trails so it will be interesting to see the difference with EMTB+.
 
Onetime said:
I also have the G4 Race and I updated mine last night without any issues. You might have to go to your LBS if it’s not showing up on your app. Did you delete and reinstall your flow app? If not, try that first. I use race all the time on my trails so it will be interesting to see the difference with EMTB+.
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I did not delete and re-install it. I guess I could try that and find my silly password first. Thanks!
 
So is anyone else getting massive derating issues in turbo with 750W 100Nm?

I rode at lunch today, up a steep technical trail in 30c weather, bike derated down to Eco levels of power in 15minutes. Waited around 5 minutes then continued in emtb and still derated twice more on my 45minute climb.

These new modes at full power are only for road climbs or very short climbs it seems. (edit: in summer at least)
 
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Rando_12345 said:
So is anyone else getting massive derating issues in turbo with 750W 100Nm?

I rode at lunch today, up a steep technical trail in 30c weather, bike derated down to Eco levels of power in 15minutes. Waited around 5 minutes then continued in emtb and still derated twice more on my 45minute climb.

These new modes at full power are only for road climbs or very short climbs it seems.
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Not here. I have never experienced any derating.

I'm running emtb+ in 100nm mode instead of turbo mode.
emtb mode at 85nm
tour+ at 70nm
eco at 60nm.

Rode for 3.5 hours on sunday, 3 sat, 3 friday, 1 thursday.
Thursday was 500mtr vert straight up for 45 mins mostly in emtb+ 100nm

I'm generally flicking through modes and not running emtb+ for long periods. The 3 hour rides were flicking through modes. I haven't experienced any derating.

Its winter here though as 15 deg c max and im 78kg,
 
Rando_12345 said:
So is anyone else getting massive derating issues in turbo with 750W 100Nm?

I rode at lunch today, up a steep technical trail in 30c weather, bike derated down to Eco levels of power in 15minutes. Waited around 5 minutes then continued in emtb and still derated twice more on my 45minute climb.

These new modes at full power are only for road climbs or very short climbs it seems.
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I'd suggest setting emtb at 85nm and give it the same ride variables and if it overheats and derates.
Wither the new 100nm is just creating too much heat when combined with 30°C or you have some other problem contributing to the over heating.
 
Well, that's strange. It's quite hot outside these days , over 30' C , so I'll try to give it a push in Boost, hence I don't have any long climbs around me .
 
Bogdan_CH said:
Well, that's strange. It's quite hot outside these days , over 30' C , so I'll try to give it a push in Boost, hence I don't have any long climbs around me .
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It might depend on the bike model. Some bikes have the Bosch motor more exposed and likely offer slightly better cooling. Others are more enclosed. That might also affect how much the motor heats up :unsure:
 
I never experienced derating on the Gen4. On the Gen5 I experienced it a few times on my commute, when riding in strong headwind for almost an hour. I have a small climb on the end of the commute, and motor derated on a couple of occasions up that small hill.
Have not noticed anything after the new update. Time will tell.
 
First ride on my Whyte E160RSX (gen 4 motor) after doing the update. It was a country ride with quite a bit of climbing in the first third of the 16 mile ride some of it against the wind....... but nothing very technical.
I have emtb and emtb+ tuned the same and emtb is usually the only mode I use tuned at 5/3.
Can't say I noticed any difference between emtb and emtb+........certainly nothing the difference of one gear change would not nullify.
Neither provides as much assist as turbo at 65/70 cadence.
Maybe at a slower speed and correspondingly higher cadence on a steeper more technical climb any difference with emtb+ may be more noticeable?
 
Mikerb said:
First ride on my Whyte E160RSX (gen 4 motor) after doing the update. It was a country ride with quite a bit of climbing in the first third of the 16 mile ride some of it against the wind....... but nothing very technical.
I have emtb and emtb+ tuned the same and emtb is usually the only mode I use tuned at 5/3.
Can't say I noticed any difference between emtb and emtb+........certainly nothing the difference of one gear change would not nullify.
Neither provides as much assist as turbo at 65/70 cadence.
Maybe at a slower speed and correspondingly higher cadence on a steeper more technical climb any difference with emtb+ may be more noticeable?
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Technical climbing is where emtb+ comes into its own.
 
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