ctcampbell
New Member
I just updated. Had to do a full firmware update once, then go back into the updates page and there was another ‘performance update’ waiting to be installed.
A stronger Bosch SX and improvements for the CX coming on July 14th
- Thread starter knut7
- Start date
Well an hour after my post a couple of posts above I checked the app store and Flow was marked with an update box. So selecting that updated Flow and as soon as I turned on my bike the update began.
My bikes are both gen 4 so the update only consists the addition of emtb+ and the increase of assist from 340% to 400%. The motor remains at 85nm and Max 600w.
Once the update is complete the fist job is to edit the modes selecting any 4 from the list. I dumped eco, added emtb+ and retained tour+ emtb and turbo.
Next is tuning each mode. I had already tuned tour+ emtb and turbo so just tuned emtb+ the same as emtb .
Since none of the tuning options actually specify assist as a %........they are merely -5 to +5 sliders......it is not clear what % value each of the slider options represents! So I will just have to try each mode to see what differences there are!
My bikes are both gen 4 so the update only consists the addition of emtb+ and the increase of assist from 340% to 400%. The motor remains at 85nm and Max 600w.
Once the update is complete the fist job is to edit the modes selecting any 4 from the list. I dumped eco, added emtb+ and retained tour+ emtb and turbo.
Next is tuning each mode. I had already tuned tour+ emtb and turbo so just tuned emtb+ the same as emtb .
Since none of the tuning options actually specify assist as a %........they are merely -5 to +5 sliders......it is not clear what % value each of the slider options represents! So I will just have to try each mode to see what differences there are!
Plummet
Flash Git
Took me 4 uninstalls and reinstalls of the flow app and finally got the 100nm ....
Plummet
Flash Git
Well, it would be nice if the check update section in the app worked...... having to delete and reinstall the app multiple times so it could find the updates is a bit of a bitch.
Performed the update on my Gen 4 Orbea Wild. I only have 4 ride modes available with no EMTB+. I have only had 4 modes ever since the motor was changed under warranty. Not sure if the bike shop killing the other modes has anything to do with the new EMTB+ mode not showing or if its something else. Any ideas?
Plummet
Flash Git
I had to uninstall and re-install the app 4 times..... grrrrrr!
GDAS
Active member
are you saying you don't get a list of seven (8 post-upgrade with EMTB+) modes, of which you can select max 4, like in this pic?
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Is there much difference between EMTB+ and Turbo?
@GDAS Correct. I did before the warranty motor replacement. Now I only have 4 to choose from. I was hoping to have a 5th now with EMTB+ but nope, still just the 4 after the update. The thing that sucks about Bosch warranty work is they dont cover labor. So you gotta pay for their lack of quality our of your own pocket. It would suck to put my bike in the shops 2 week backlog then have to pay labor.
Good question.
Now that we have EMTB+, Turbo seems pointless.
EMTB+ gives us 400% maximum assistance, while Turbo is limited to 340%.
For EMTB+, assistance increases at a lower rate when rider input is lower. The rate increases as rider input increases, and then levels off as assistance approaches maximum. For Turbo, the amount of assistance increases linearly with rider input.
EMTB+ provides more power and more sensible delivery. Turbo is so 2024. Even Race mode in the Race Motors has been surpassed.
Howdy from Ory gun! Android user here. Did all the things yesterday. Like many I could get 750wh but no torque update. Today still nothing. Unpaired Rail 9.8 GX from Flow app, then uninstalled/reinstalled Flow app and the 2nd update appeared in a blue message box at the bottom of the update page. Still don't have EMTB+ mode but at least I can try out the other new settings.
Daveed F
Active member
Couldn’t wait for Bosch. A couple of delete and reinstall the app and I’ve got it!
Bike Crestline S180
Bike Crestline S180
Bogdan_CH
Active member
Wondering some actual feedback on the power upgrade. How do you guys feel it?
Updated mine but went on a trip just after the update so parking lot test doesn't prove much, it was fast already
Updated mine but went on a trip just after the update so parking lot test doesn't prove much, it was fast already
Have you selected "Edit ride modes"......that's is when the.full list of modes comes up and you can select a maximum of 4 from the list?
The update for my Flow app became available yesterday (Android / Pixel 8a / Trek RAIL+ Gen5), the update went smoothly, and, as with the others, the 100 Nm performance update was a separate update inside the Flow app. No issues, no reinstalls, it was 10 min and done.
Today I made my first EMTB+ test ride trying some gravel road climbs and more technical single track. I started experimenting with +5 assistance and 0 Dynamic setting (750W/100 Nm) as a starting point, and I am very happy. I'm not sure if I need this much power and assistance, but with these settings EMTB+ works very smoothly and provides significant power boost over the old settings. Overall, I have a very positive initial impression and will continue testing to find the best settings. I don't think I need Turbo mode any longer, probably will set my four modes as EMTB+, EMTB, TOUR, ECO - we'll see.
Today I made my first EMTB+ test ride trying some gravel road climbs and more technical single track. I started experimenting with +5 assistance and 0 Dynamic setting (750W/100 Nm) as a starting point, and I am very happy. I'm not sure if I need this much power and assistance, but with these settings EMTB+ works very smoothly and provides significant power boost over the old settings. Overall, I have a very positive initial impression and will continue testing to find the best settings. I don't think I need Turbo mode any longer, probably will set my four modes as EMTB+, EMTB, TOUR, ECO - we'll see.
Hi, are you asking about Gen 4 with EMTB+ or Gen 5 with 750w and 100nm with EMTB+?
How do you know turbo max is 340%.? With the gen 4 update the tuning options do not specify assist max as a %. I assume the assist upgrade from 340% to 400% is a general increase ......obviously only the full 400% if a mode is tuned at +5 on a mode.
What we do not know is whether each mode is capped at a max % assist and if so what those caps are. If a cap is applied on modes from ECO through to turbo , you would expect both emtb and turbo to be able to achieve 400% albeit easier in terms of rider input with turbo.
Emtb+ is touted as having a mix of emtb and Race tune.....the latter probably more to do with overrun......again 400% assist.
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Prisondude
New Member
To be honest i have had better experience with bosch motors then with Mahle.
it is on the Bosch web site, all modes are explained and % level of support of each mode. https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/riding-modes
I suspect that was written prior to the new upgrade
Bogdan_CH
Active member
Gen5 obviously. The change in gen4 is purely marketing. I vouch if we do a test with people on this forum, 99% will only pure guess which has 340 or 400% assist.
On the other hand that power and torque change should definitely sense it. Was just curious by how much outside what we've got from the press people
doesn't GEN4 get emtb+ also , I am GEN4 and no eMTB+ , but your right , they have to make it look like GEN4 is getting something , as the are still being sold , I'm all placebo'd out
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doubtful as it includes the new modes.... but anyway not a major issue either way
True....I did a mini test on my gen 4 just a little circuit outside my driveway......can't say I noticed much difference. Maybe on a proper ride I do quite often I may. I have 2 gen 4 bikes and have only updated one ....and they are essentially identical bikes so that's another comparison I can do.
Enjoy and report back, to get 400% i heard you need to set to +5 in the mode options... not tried that yet myself
bullit398
Member
I got to ride my gen5 yesterday. First, I can’t tell the difference between EMTB and turbo. I’ll probably ditch turbo, because it seems like I have 2 turbos. I never thought I would say this because I’ve been waiting for this for a long time but it feels too easy at full power and torque. I’m sure there will be times where I want that level of support but it’s barely exercise. I suspect I’ll still primarily ride in EMTB and tour. It’s cool to have the option but it feels like I’m just riding against the 20mph cap more frequently and quickly. That was only one ride so maybe my mind will change as I ride more and different places.
My emtb was already tuned to 5 and I have tuned emtb+ the same. I only ever use emtb .......never needed turbo despite some pretty steep and rooty climbs on some of my rides. The only other mode I use is tour+ if I have to do any road sections to get to a ride.
I only did the update out of curiosity! Totally happy with the bike as it was so in most respects happy it appears nothing much has changed!! I suspect many with the gen 5 update will have to turn tuning down to preserve control and range.....so seems a bit pointless.
Yes ,arms race against DJI , they gotta be seen to be doing something , next stop lobbying the EU for further controls , to cap that DJI juggernaut ......
to be honest , with all my bikes , I am still happiest with my 625 wh Giant , 85nm , never needed more really but still bought 2 more bikes
