Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay

[Flatslide]

Flat, the link you post in the suspension thread ... there’s something that I can’t understand due to my bad english

Seat bearing spacers with narrow inner faces against bearings, and slide shock into link.

This means with the flat side of the spacers and that smaller “ring lip” like this pic?

View attachment 25981

The draw on the manual show it the other way around, the lip side facing inside, the flat side outside.

View attachment 25984

The reason the little spacers have the lip on the inside (shock side as per the Tech Manual diagram), is that lip seats against the inner bearing race. If you installed them back-to-front, the spacers would bind against the inner and outer bearing races and it would be nasty
Hope that helps.

 

[Eddy Current]

Well, I ride enough and I managed to push it hard to give some impressions.

This ebike is absolutely so fucking good. Sorry for the words but it need to be emphasised. These Rocky Mofountains guys, they have done magic with this thing.

The motor is so powerfull, I use to ride the Brose wich is another powerfull motor, but i need the trail mode more often, I rarely go above Eco at 30% in the RM where the Brose is at 35%. It’s also even quieter, the pulley sound is there but the motor itslef, almost zero.

Ride 9 Flip chip, another amazing feature, from the slackest to the steeper position is there a noticeable change on how it behaves, going to more linear as you steep it. You got more room to tune, and when others flip chip are only 0.5 degrees in two positions you get a whole 1 in 9 positions. Another point to the RM.

Suspension works great, after all is the same you find in the normal altitude, no altered pivot points, no twist there, no enlarged that ... small bumps sensitivity is great, highly progressive in the slackest positions, pedal bob is not that good, and braking squat is normal.

My friends got some carbon Levo, the super light Focus Jam, Orbea Wild ... they all told me the same after ride it, ”i could turn back time I would buy this, hands down” one of them is even looking second hand market every day to catch one.

I will not say again all that you readed before about this ebike, from owners to press reviews, nimble agile snappy (wich it is) I just want to say how natural it feels, no upper body fatigue, no dead weight feeling, it always get you inside the turn no matter how tight it is or how fast you go. You can pick lines you normally can’t in ebikes, switch, weave around, pop ... so easily. You don’t need to carry speed at all to make it feel alive. Yes, it rides more like a regular bike than a ebike.

The Altitude might no be as forgiving as 29er or a 27.5+ with longer chainstays but if you want performance over touring, this is the ebike for you.

Special mention to the finishes, it’s an excellent built quality.

Props to this crazy Canadians to dare go on their way. This experiments
usually end in disaster, but this one ... it’s a hell of a ebike, period. I just keep wonder myself what can they do on the next model.

Regards amigos. Keep calm & Altitude Powerplay, all day, all the way

 

[Gary]

You can pick lines you normally can’t in ebikes,

What nonsense doth Ed speak of this day?

 

[Eddy Current]

What nonsense doth Ed speak of this day?

it’s like that dear

the hill you see in the pic is a singletrail labyrinth, lots of bifurcation, lot of threes, thighs turns with big stones With little room for the wheels ... many times on others ebikes you need to look an alternative line if possible where normal bikes go

 

[Gary]

it’s like take that dear

When Robbie was still wiv 'em?


or the real early gay disco foodfight days?

the hill you see in the pic is a singletrail labyrinth, lots of bifurcation, lot of threes, big stones With little room for the wheels ... on others ebikes you need to look an alternative line if possible

You're talking absolute shite again

 

[Eddy Current]

When Robbie was still wiv 'em?


or the real early gay disco foodfight days?






You're talking absolute shite again

I can assure you can’t take the blue line in this trail on ebike. You need to take the red one. And same happens in many others trails around there. Pretty narrow, slippery, or exposed

Nigga don’t tell how to ride my trails or I’ll bust a cap in your tires

 

[Gary]

you talk so much shite Ed it's honestly funny.

I get that you love your new Ebike (and who wouldn't coming from a Multipla) but your 18mm shorter chainstays isn't going to alter whether you can or can't ride a narrow, slippery exposed line. Commitment, experience, weight positioning, timing and skill are what will.

Oh.. .and BTW.. .seeing as your chainstay lengthens and shortens as you rotate that flipchip I'm guessing the figure you've read is in it's absolute shortest configuration? Have you measured it at all?
TBF Any bike I've ever owned/ridden with a flip chip or adjustable geometry I've pretty much always run in the lowest slackest setting (as my preference is descending performance over anything else and pretty much no stock bikes are as low as I'd prefer). building a bike with 9 positions is to me nothing more than a gimick trying to cover far too many bases when designing it with one geometry setting would have allowed better finetuning of riding and suspension traits. (Jack of all trades, master of none?)

It's an interesting bike for sure. But it's 426mm stays are highly unlikely to be the skill compensator you seem to be heralding them as. (seeing as there's nothing else particuarly mindblowingly different about this bike's geometry)
The Powerplay's motor, chain routing and idler set up is for sure interesting. Especially as rocky has chosen it to maintain kinematics/geometry from their standard Altitude rather than to imorove pedalling/suspension/braking performance as with most idler systems on standard mtbs. I dread to think how much shite would end up under that chain cover over a couple of days Scottish winter riding, nevermind living with it long term.

short chainstays (not that 426mm is genuinely all that short for even 29er regular mtbs) have just as many drawbacks as positives. Many of which are actually amplified with the extra torque or weight of the motor.

Just enjoy your bike instead of constantly trying to justify it's design/Geometry. Especially if you're going to post pics of singletrack that looks perfectly rideable by any decent rider on a cyclocross bike

 

[Eddy Current]

you talk so much shite Ed it's honestly funny.

I get that you love your new Ebike (and who wouldn't coming from a Multipla) but your 18mm shorter chainstays isn't going to alter whether you can or can't ride a narrow, slippery exposed line. Commitment, experience, weight positioning, timing and skill are what will.

Oh.. .and BTW.. .seeing as your chainstay lengthens and shortens as you rotate that flipchip I'm guessing the figure you've read is in it's absolute shortest configuration? Have you measured it at all?
TBF Any bike I've ever owned/ridden with a flip chip or adjustable geometry I've pretty much always run in the lowest slackest setting (as my preference is descending performance over anything else and pretty much no stock bikes are as low as I'd prefer). building a bike with 9 positions is to me nothing more than a gimick trying to cover far too many bases when designing it with one geometry setting would have allowed better finetuning of riding and suspension traits. (Jack of all trades, master of none?)

It's an interesting bike for sure. But it's 426mm stays are highly unlikely to be the skill compensator you seem to be heralding them as. (seeing as there's nothing else particuarly mindblowingly different about this bike's geometry)
The Powerplay's motor, chain routing and idler set up is for sure interesting. Especially as rocky has chosen it to maintain kinematics/geometry from their standard Altitude rather than to imorove pedalling/suspension/braking performance as with most idler systems on standard mtbs. I dread to think how much shite would end up under that chain cover over a couple of days Scottish winter riding, nevermind living with it long term.

short chainstays (not that 426mm is genuinely all that short for even 29er regular mtbs) have just as many drawbacks as positives. Many of which are actually amplified with the extra torque or weight of the motor.

Just enjoy your bike instead of constantly trying to justify it's design/Geometry. Especially if you're going to post pics of singletrack that looks perfectly rideable by any decent rider on a cyclocross bike

Gary, the first thing I thought was, is nimble because it’s ultra short chainstays and it’s 27.5x2.5 ... but, that’s only a part of the package. I’m not the only the one, don’t need to justify myself, everyone here tells the same, the bike feels almost like a normal bike.

The other ebikes are like Audi TT 370z Etc ... are they slow boring cars? Hell no. But this RM is the Honda S2K or the Boxter. Is so sharp, it feels like it weights 10 pounds less than it actually weight, I insist it’s not just me claiming that. I’m coming for a multipla but my friends no, they come from Levos, Focus Jam2 sub 20 kgs, new Orbea Wilds ... they fall in love with my Rocky! They want one. One of them even offer a trade, his Levo plus 1000€ for the Rocky, so ...

That shot is a GoPro video, you know how it goes ... no way you can descend that on a gravel,oh ok, empirically? Yes you can do it even on a Skateboard but ...

The flip chip is amazing, not only because you get more than the 0.5 usually they allow you, is because how does the suspension behaves in the different points, it goes from a highly progressive to a almost linear, with a coil you can setup this ebike as you wish (I’m maybe talking sheit here no expert) but I suspect it Has more range or accuracy of tuning?

But hey, this all is a sinergy, this thing is something different that works, and something that “makes“ a medium skilled rider like me a “better” rider, it can turn you or anyone in a “better” one too. And you’re right the most important thing is that I’m so happy with it, the rest are just words on a screen after all, sheit or not, is what it is.

Try one mate, just try one!

 

[Gary]

The flip chip is amazing, not only because you get more than the 0.5 usually they allow you, is because how does the suspension behaves in the different points, it goes from a highly progressive to a almost linear, with a coil you can setup this ebike as you wish (I’m maybe talking sheit here no expert) but I suspect it Has more range or accuracy of tuning?

you ARE talking shite mate!
Measure your bike's dimensions/suspension linkages/pivot points etc. accurately, Next input all that data into linkage software and then compare the LC in the most linear and most progressive flip chip positions to find out just how much.

You've just far drunk too much of your own cool aid.

I'm honestly happy you love your new bike and "think" you've found the holy grail of Eeb that handles like a regular bike and somehow makes you a better rider because of it. You honestly haven't tho. you have newbikeitis... enjoy it while it lasts
But please stop trying to ram it down everyone's throats.
it's simply got nice short stays. (if that's something you deem "nice")

 

[Gary]

I’m maybe talking sheit here no expert

Educate yourself

Linkage Bike Simulation Software - Home

 

[Eddy Current]

you ARE talking shite mate!
Measure your bike's dimensions/suspension linkages/pivot points etc. accurately, Next input all that data into linkage software and then compare the LC in the most linear and most progressive flip chip positions to find out just how much.

You've just far drunk too much of your own cool aid.

I'm honestly happy you love your new bike and "think" you've found the holy grail of Eeb that handles like a regular bike and somehow makes you a better rider because of it. You honestly haven't tho. you have newbikeitis... enjoy it while it lasts
But please stop trying to ram it down everyone's throats.
it's simply got nice short stays. (if that's something you deem "nice")

Gary, it’s not the chainstays only. How they “isolated“ the weight? No idea. Mine is light but is nowhere sub20 kgs, but it feels sub18kgs ... I cant argue with you about suspenssions but no need to convince nobody how good a ebike is, here, a owners thread, just read it and see by yourself everybody here gives the same main impression I do, normal bike handling. That’s a fact, but wait, there’s a debate then ... an ebike is as good as it resembles a normal bike, or an ebike is a ebike? I’m not blinded fanboy, but if you consider the first, this is the one.

About that link, I can only tell you this, as a mere fact. When riding in the slackest position I can leave the shock fully open, in the steeper the pedal bob is so obvious that even on the medium lock is annoying, full lock is already ok but is still there ...

 

[Gary]

Gary, it’s not the chainstays only. How they “isolated“ the weight?

They didn't
It's all in your head

Hope this helps

 

[Gary]

When riding in the slackest position I can leave the shock fully open

Dude. I haven't ridden any shock in anything but full open for decades.
Why?
Because i don't choose bikes with shite suspension characteristics

in the steeper the pedal bob is so obvious that even on the medium lock is annoying, full lock is already ok but is still there ...

Proving my point earlier about designing a bike with 9 flip chip options having more downsides than positives.
you do realise it's perfectly possible to design a bike with low/slack geometry, a progressive LC AND good pedalling characteristics, eh?

 

[Eddy Current]

Dude. I haven't ridden any shock in anything but full open for decades.
Why?
Because i don't choose bikes with shite suspension characteristics


Provong my point earlier about designing a bike with 9 flip chip options having more downsides than positives.
you do realise it's perfectly possible to design a bike with low/slack geometry, a progressive LC AND good pedalling characteristics, eh?

That’s how the RM is on the slackest position. I think maybe it gives more accuracy and a bit more linear range for tune than just play with spacers . However, dont forget it gives you one degree to play with the geo while most are 0.5 ... anyway, compared with the motor and the bike performance is a lesser feature, but again, i think is a bit improved and useful than other flip chips. It adds.

And yes, on the steepest position pedal bob is noticeable but it also has a very good small bump sensitivity, I’ve done the same climb in both ends and on this one the rear wheel tracks the surface superbly.

The Powerplays are amazing ebikes, that’s for sure, it’s just they kinda scary with all that jockeys and they are def not as forgiving as the others, but see, that’s the thing i hate about others ebikes. Way too forgiving (for my rides) On the Rocky I feel im on the bike instead over the ebike, and it’s a more demanding and involved ride, wich also I like.

Is a matter of tastes i guess, but if you like this taste, it’s hard to find anything tasty as the RM.

 

[Eddy Current]

2.8" definitely won't fit.

They fit, but i will not run them in snow or mud, minimal clearance as you can imagine.

 

[nineT]

After switching from the SRAM 1x8 to a Shimano 1x12, the noise has diminished substantial. I still have the old drive train. I think it is the chain that makes a lot of difference.

 

[Eddy Current]

After switching from the SRAM 1x8 to a Shimano 1x12, the noise has diminished substantial. I still have the old drive train. I think it is the chain that makes a lot of difference.

And if you upgrade the chain guide is even more silent, almost no noise in the first gears.

 

[mbee123]

After over 1000 miles of incident free happy riding, my Altitude A50, has got a problem with the motor intermittently cutting out. Unfortunately as I'm not the first owner the shop I bought it from or Rocky mountain haven't been much help, apparently the warranty is not transferable. My nearest RM service centre is shut, and when they do open I am at the back of a very long list but they do have a 'spare' bike that they can swap parts from.

Sometimes it is fine, but sometimes it cuts out after an hour or so, and the motor will not kick into life, frustratingly it usually works a couple of hours later when i'm back home.

I have seen error code 4 and 24 on the app but normally after much unplugging and plugging of cables so i am not sure if these codes are self induced.

Whether it is connected or not I don't know but the problems seemed to start when I changed the chain and sprockets, I put a 50 tooth cassette on the back from the standard 46t and the chain was slightly too tight, whether this affect the tension on the torque sensor caused the issue I am unsure but I have since returned to a standard set up but the issue is still there

Appreciate any help/advice out there as i want to get riding it again but I have lost confidence in it...

 

[Flatslide]

After over 1000 miles of incident free happy riding, my Altitude A50, has got a problem with the motor intermittently cutting out. Unfortunately as I'm not the first owner the shop I bought it from or Rocky mountain haven't been much help, apparently the warranty is not transferable. My nearest RM service centre is shut, and when they do open I am at the back of a very long list but they do have a 'spare' bike that they can swap parts from.

Sometimes it is fine, but sometimes it cuts out after an hour or so, and the motor will not kick into life, frustratingly it usually works a couple of hours later when i'm back home.

I have seen error code 4 and 24 on the app but normally after much unplugging and plugging of cables so i am not sure if these codes are self induced.

Whether it is connected or not I don't know but the problems seemed to start when I changed the chain and sprockets, I put a 50 tooth cassette on the back from the standard 46t and the chain was slightly too tight, whether this affect the tension on the torque sensor caused the issue I am unsure but I have since returned to a standard set up but the issue is still there

Appreciate any help/advice out there as i want to get riding it again but I have lost confidence in it...

That's a bummer, I honestly feel for ya.
If you are the type of person who likes to work on things yourself, and you have an interest in electrical/mechanical things, why don't you pull it apart? Here's a link to the Technical Manual https://www.chrissports.ch/content/files/Files/Service&Technik/Rocky Mountain/Altitude_Powerplay_Tech_Manual.pdf I printed mine out and put it into a binder.
Error codes here Rocky Mountain Powerplay User Help
Both of those codes are a right PITA. Does the battery work okay when it the bike is working? I've broken 4 speed sensors now. When they go I usually get a warning on the iWoc, but the motor will cut out intermittently and it will reduce power to maybe 35% in Ludicrous mode and less in the other modes.

 

[mbee123]

Thanks for your reply, I'm 90% certain it's not the battery (error code 4), even when it's had a fault I can get a reading on the battery via the app showing it's level which is what is to be expected, (eg..80% after an hours riding etc)

What sort of warning do you get on the iwoc when the speed sensors fail, red flashing light?

 

[Flatslide]

The iWoc will flash red-green alternately or something, and not all the time. Sometimes it gives no warning but just plays up.
Here's the owners manual if you don't have it https://www.bikes.com/sites/default/files/resources/owners-manual_powerplay_system_en_web.pdf
If you have a multi-meter, checking the speed sensor is straightforward. With the bike switched off, flip the bike upside down, as this makes rotating the rear wheel more easily and take the left motor cover off and unplug the sensor plug from the motor. Set the meter on resistance (ohms), and touch the meter leads to the each of the two exposed plug connectors. The sensor is a mechanical reed switch in the normally open position. This means when the magnet on the disc rotor is not lined up with the sensor on the seat stay just above the axle, the meter will read open circuit. If you rotate the wheel until the magnet lines up with the sensor, the meter should give a very low resistance reading around 0+ohms. If you spin the wheel but not too fast, the meter should flick between open and closed circuit. If the sensor has failed, there will only be an open circuit reading.

 

[mbee123]

Thanks for that, I suspect the speed sensor will report ok as the bike works most of the time but I'll give it a try

 

[Drleduc]

After over 1000 miles of incident free happy riding, my Altitude A50, has got a problem with the motor intermittently cutting out. Unfortunately as I'm not the first owner the shop I bought it from or Rocky mountain haven't been much help, apparently the warranty is not transferable. My nearest RM service centre is shut, and when they do open I am at the back of a very long list but they do have a 'spare' bike that they can swap parts from.

Sometimes it is fine, but sometimes it cuts out after an hour or so, and the motor will not kick into life, frustratingly it usually works a couple of hours later when i'm back home.

I have seen error code 4 and 24 on the app but normally after much unplugging and plugging of cables so i am not sure if these codes are self induced.

Whether it is connected or not I don't know but the problems seemed to start when I changed the chain and sprockets, I put a 50 tooth cassette on the back from the standard 46t and the chain was slightly too tight, whether this affect the tension on the torque sensor caused the issue I am unsure but I have since returned to a standard set up but the issue is still there

Appreciate any help/advice out there as i want to get riding it again but I have lost confidence in it...

Not sure if you have tried the Torque sensor re calibration procedure already:

 

[Zimmerframe]

Rocky mountain haven't been much help, apparently the warranty is not transferable

I really wish companies wouldn't do this, especially with e-bikes. Ultimately, they will just put people off buying their bike as it will be much harder to sell.

Smaller bike shops can't always afford to take in trade ins, so even if you're brand loyal and just want to buy a new bike every 12 months, you can't - because you'll struggle to sell your existing one.

I think RM even went the extra mile and upgraded, retrospectively, to a 3 year warranty ? Which is fantastic and I hope everyone follows suit (no emtb gambling puns intended). But if that's none transferable, for a lot of people who buy EMTB's it's worthless.

 

[Flatslide]

Not sure if you have tried the Torque sensor re calibration procedure already:

Cheers for that. I didn't realise the bike needed to be in 1st to perform the calibration. My bike hasn't been running properly for a few weeks and with me being a bit crook, I thought it was just my fitness had taken a nose dive lol. I performed a calibration this morning and it's like having a new bike. Farken yay!

 

[mbee123]

Not sure if you have tried the Torque sensor re calibration procedure already:

Yes, tried it and didn't make any difference I'm afraid..

Agree with zimmerframe re warranty, the Rocky Mountain guy I've been talking to reckoned only one bike company transfer warranties, think he said Specialised but I could be wrong

 

[naharris212]

@mbee123 I have the C90 and it does the same thing. Here and there the motor shuts off. I can get it back on my taking off the left side case and unplugging the battery and plugging back in. Have you tried that?

It seems to happen when I really pushing the bike hard up hills. I was thinking it could be an issue with heating or something along those lines.

I do not get an error codes however. It would be great for the consumer app to print our the bikes logs. Might help diagnose some without bringing it in.

Quick question. How would I know if the torque sensor needs re-tuning? Is it power delivery or responsiveness?

 

[Eddy Current]

@mbee123 I have the C90 and it does the same thing. Here and there the motor shuts off. I can get it back on my taking off the left side case and unplugging the battery and plugging back in. Have you tried that?

It seems to happen when I really pushing the bike hard up hills. I was thinking it could be an issue with heating or something along those lines.

I do not get an error codes however. It would be great for the consumer app to print our the bikes logs. Might help diagnose some without bringing it in.

Quick question. How would I know if the torque sensor needs re-tuning? Is it power delivery or responsiveness?

just calibrate it once at week. Takes one minute

 

[mbee123]

@mbee123 I have the C90 and it does the same thing. Here and there the motor shuts off. I can get it back on my taking off the left side case and unplugging the battery and plugging back in. Have you tried that?

I have tried that in the past with pretty much all of the connectors as initially I thought it was electrical issue (it still may be) but lately I've been thinking it's the torque sensor as the issues started when I changed the rear cassette for a larger one which may have upped the tension on it. I'm back on the standard set up now but the problem still persists

I can't really say it's when the bike is pushed too hard as it's happened on fairly small hills on a middle gear in eco mode

 

[Dan63]

Well it's new bike day for me! Found a 2020 Altitude PP A70 in stock at a good price, picked up today. Stoked, looks fantastic in the flesh!!

Just waiting on a v3 iwoc and 2021 firmware update from the Rocky rep on Tuesday.

First ride on Saturday, I'll spend tomorrow to set her up. I've got a few bits to swap over from my Merida and need to go tubeless.