TQFreak's Dengfu E55 Build Thread

[TQFreak]

Ground clearance for the motor bottom is 315 mm. Ground clearance for the 44t chainring is 265mm. Wheel diameter with inflated 29"x2.8" tire is 760mm.

29x2.8 tires with the rims I use maintain about 5-4mm clearance with the swingarm and allow to mound Mudhugger on the front fork I use.

Note Dengfu recommends maximum sizes of the tire for the swingarm 2.8" for 27.5" rim and 2.6" for 29" rim

E55 FRAME

DENGFU E55 Frame is a AM mountain E-bike carbon frame, with BAFANG M620 1000W 48V Gear sensor motor and 48V 20Ah 960Wh / 52V 20Ah 1040Wh Lithium-ion battery.

www.dengfubike.com

 

[TeoElFeo]

Thanks, great info!

I am planning to use 27.5 for the rear, so there shouldn't be a fitment issue

 

[TQFreak]

Update on Innotrace X1 motor.

The good news is the X1 Tool programming utility was partially hacked and now you can adjust some settings of the motor without registering an account online (by the way this online service does not work anymore so the users are not able to register online accounts and use them to adjust the motors). Unfortunately the X1 Tool utility was not hacked up to the level where you can reach the advanced settings where you can change the power of the motor to higher level than it was configured from Innotrace. Here are the details:

Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)

Precisely my point. WW's vested interest is HUGE. Every M620 machine. I'm awaiting the cable for my (titanium) Legacy Cross Tour - ordered 10/21 (after the titanium Cross Tour was actually discontinued). A year later, on 10/22, the bike was delivered. I'm probably high on the list for a cable...

electricbikereview.com

Another good news is the programming dongle for innotrace X1 controller was figured out too and you can buy it on Amazon for cheap and make it works with Innotrace X1 controller. Here are the details:

Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)

You mean limited by battery? But can you set it higher than 45A in the program if you have more capable battery? For 60A 52V for instance (3000 W)?

electricbikereview.com

Another good news is it looks like my motor has Innotrace X1 controller because of I was able to connect it to the X1 Tool utility with the programming dongle.

And now the bad news is I found Innotrace sent me 260W motor instead of 3000W. WTF!? It is even less power than regular Bafang m620 motor and 12 times less power than I wanted. Now I see why it struggles to go over 30 mph and feels just slightly more powerful than 250W Yamaha PWX motor.

You can see in the X1 Tool utility my motor is configured for 5A maximum. Innotrace not only did not attach XT60 connector to the motor but also sent me wrong motor, or did not configured it to the power I asked and paid for. So now I have a weak 260W (52V 5A) motor and I can not set the power higher because of the X1 Tool advanced settings are not available, or maybe there is a hardware difference too between 3000W Innotrace motors and less powerful Innotrace motors I am not aware of.

This is what I purchased from Innotrace and this was not delivered

I hope there is just a programming setting difference between 260W and 3000W motors and I hope someone will hack that X1 Tool utility completely so I can change those power and amperage settings because of I feel Innotrare is not going to resolve this issue.

 

[Bengy22]

Update on Innotrace X1 motor.

The good news is the X1 Tool programming utility was partially hacked and now you can adjust some settings of the motor without registering an account online (by the way this online service does not work anymore so the users are not able to register online accounts and use them to adjust the motors). Unfortunately the X1 Tool utility was not hacked up to the level where you can reach the advanced settings where you can change the power of the motor to higher level than it was configured from Innotrace. Here are the details:

Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)

Precisely my point. WW's vested interest is HUGE. Every M620 machine. I'm awaiting the cable for my (titanium) Legacy Cross Tour - ordered 10/21 (after the titanium Cross Tour was actually discontinued). A year later, on 10/22, the bike was delivered. I'm probably high on the list for a cable...

electricbikereview.com

Another good news is the programming dongle for innotrace X1 controller was figured out too and you can buy it on Amazon for cheap and make it works with Innotrace X1 controller. Here are the details:

Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)

You mean limited by battery? But can you set it higher than 45A in the program if you have more capable battery? For 60A 52V for instance (3000 W)?

electricbikereview.com

Another good news is it looks like my motor has Innotrace X1 controller because of I was able to connect it to the X1 Tool utility with the programming dongle.

And now the bad news is I found Innotrace sent me 260W motor instead of 3000W. WTF!? It is even less power than regular Bafang m620 motor and 12 times less power than I wanted. Now I see why it struggles to go over 30 mph and feels just slightly more powerful than 250W Yamaha PWX motor.

You can see in the X1 Tool utility my motor is configured for 5A maximum. Innotrace not only did not attach XT60 connector to the motor but also sent me wrong motor, or did not configured it to the power I asked and paid for. So now I have a weak 260W (52V 5A) motor and I can not set the power higher because of the X1 Tool advanced settings are not available, or maybe there is a hardware difference too between 3000W Innotrace motors and less powerful Innotrace motors I am not aware of.

View attachment 112048

This is what I purchased from Innotrace and this was not delivered

View attachment 112049

I hope there is just a programming setting difference between 260W and 3000W motors and I hope someone will hack that X1 Tool utility completely so I can change those power and amperage settings because of I feel Innotrare is not going to resolve this issue.

Did you every contact or hear back from them?

 

[TQFreak]

Yes, I contacted them yesterday and they responded to me today and they promised to support me. I hope they will just share the unlocked version of X1 Tool utility so I can set the motor to 60A myself.

 

[Bengy22]

Yes, I contacted them yesterday and they responded to me today and they promised to support me. I hope they will just share the unlocked version of X1 Tool utility so I can set the motor to 60A myself.

I really hope that is the case, hopefully once you get the full 60A the power and smiles it bring will have made the situation while not great a lot better than how the motor is now

 

[Bengy22]

Some interesting news from innotrace that I just learned about that might be the reasoning for your issues. Seems like when you ordered your motor they might have been in the middle of something.

" The developer (Krasnodar Jandrijevic) has quit Innotrace in January, shutting down the servers as he left. Rico was alone since then. Krasnodar was not willing to share his code and Rico suspected he would use VESC. This has now been confirmed after the controller was examined more closely. Actually, this means something good: From now on there is a possibility to work on the official development state of VESC. Everyone can collaborate and contribute to it. The benefit of OpenSource."

"Attention: Unfortunately, we have to inform you that there is now a well-founded initial suspicion that the engine firmware created by our Managing Director and Head of Development (Krasnodar Jandrijevic) is based on the VESC project. Since I now have a well-founded initial suspicion, I have contacted Benjamin Vedder today to clarify this beyond doubt. On behalf of INNOTRACE GmbH, I would like to apologise to all our customers. We will of course keep you informed. Rico Czernig CEO"

 

[TeoElFeo]

Bloody Innotrace, had so much potential and In the ruined everything due to poor management and greediness.

I think offering tunability for extra fee is a really shitty move and a big red flag that speaks about the company...

 

[TQFreak]

Alringt, it looks like they started sorting things out. Krasnodar from Innotrace was able to fix my motor remotely! Now it is 3000W !

The issue was the wrong firmware and not adjusted to the necessary power motor.

Now at 3000W it pulls so hard that it almost lift the front wheel! The BMS turned the battery down after a few seconds of hard acceleration on the throttle.

The next step is to build an appropriate 52V battery for this motor for at least 60A.

I found the 52V box for the battery with 21700 cells holders and mounting bases here

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...2b7h5tO&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US

The items have no instructions. I guess the battery charge level indicator should be connected directly to battery leads?

Created a CAD model of the battery to figure out how much space left for BMS and how to locate the battery cells

 

[TeoElFeo]

Why can't you just re-use your battery box or even just upgrade the BMS on the existing battery? Of course I don't know how well are the cells welded together for pulling 60a from it... As for myself I will go for a battery with no case so that I could fit 14s6p. I think big motor needs a big battery

 

[TQFreak]

I could reuse the original battery box but I already use the bike for commute and doing it would not allow me to use the bike while I am building the battery.

I also do not know what cells they use with the original battery (I did not tear the battery down completely to check it because of the battery pack is glued inside the case and it would be difficult to tear it down) and I feel like it is not very powerful cells. The cells packed at 4 parallel configuration and if it is regular 9A cells then it is less than 40A current limit they are safe to deliver so I decided not to do anything with the original battery and build a new one.

 

[Bengy22]

Alringt, it looks like they started sorting things out. Krasnodar from Innotrace was able to fix my motor remotely! Now it is 3000W !

The issue was the wrong firmware and not adjusted to the necessary power motor.

Now at 3000W it pulls so hard that it almost lift the front wheel! The BMS turned the battery down after a few seconds of hard acceleration on the throttle.

The next step is to build an appropriate 52V battery for this motor for at least 60A.

I found the 52V box for the battery with 21700 cells holders and mounting bases here

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...2b7h5tO&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US

View attachment 112968

The items have no instructions. I guess the battery charge level indicator should be connected directly to battery leads?

View attachment 112972

Created a CAD model of the battery to figure out how much space left for BMS and how to locate the battery cells

View attachment 112974

Glad they sorted out the power for you, bet it feels like a whole new motor! Did they mention anything about the Anderson connectors and running them at 60a? I bet it will pull even harder when you get a good battery that doesn't suffer from much voltage drop and a bms that can do the full 60a. I've accidentally done wheelies through intersections on my 65a bbshd after stopping at stop signs and then gunning it half way through at 10-15mph, quickest way to put a smile on my face . Would you say it was worth all the trouble you went through now that its actually running at the power you bought, and I bet 30mph is no longer a struggle.

What cells do you plan to use for the battery, 50s, P45b, p42a? What ever it is I would make sure to beef up the series connections, personally a fan of the nickel copper sandwich method to make sure you get the lowest possible internal resistance. And also would recommend a bluetooth bms, such a great tool to have, in a 14s 4p you will have 4 empty cell holders you can remove to fit one. I'm also not a huge fan of that barrel connector, good 21700's can usually take at least a 1c charge rate (samsung 50s in 4p is a max of 24a!) That little barrel is good for what 3 max?

 

[TQFreak]

Glad they sorted out the power for you, bet it feels like a whole new motor! Did they mention anything about the Anderson connectors and running them at 60a? I bet it will pull even harder when you get a good battery that doesn't suffer from much voltage drop and a bms that can do the full 60a. I've accidentally done wheelies through intersections on my 65a bbshd after stopping at stop signs and then gunning it half way through at 10-15mph, quickest way to put a smile on my face . Would you say it was worth all the trouble you went through now that its actually running at the power you bought, and I bet 30mph is no longer a struggle.

What cells do you plan to use for the battery, 50s, P45b, p42a? What ever it is I would make sure to beef up the series connections, personally a fan of the nickel copper sandwich method to make sure you get the lowest possible internal resistance. And also would recommend a bluetooth bms, such a great tool to have, in a 14s 4p you will have 4 empty cell holders you can remove to fit one. I'm also not a huge fan of that barrel connector, good 21700's can usually take at least a 1c charge rate (samsung 50s in 4p is a max of 24a!) That little barrel is good for what 3 max?

Innotrace does mention about 60A connector for 3000W motor on their website.

I think it was worth all the trouble to have the motor with such power.

I am planning to use 50s or p42a cells whichever will be available. 50s has smaller lifespan than p42a at maximum amperage usage scenario but at 4p configuration it will be utilized at 60% of the maximum amperage so they may have about equal lifespan in my application, but 50s cells offer significantly more capacity than p42a cells so I prefer to have 50s cells. But if they are not going to be available I will be happy with p42a cells because of they are significantly cheaper.

I heard about BMS with Bluetooth drains battery even when you do not use it and may drop the voltage below the limit withing not so long period of time so I would prefer BMS without Bluetooth or maybe with removable Bluetooth so I can keep it disconnected when I do not need it.

I am still doing research about BMS and at the moment I am confused why some 14s Li-ion BMS have 48V and some have 52V, and why it matches 13S voltage (48v). Are they different? 14s lithium ion with 3.7v nominal per cell should be 52V isn't it?

I have 4A charger and the barrel connector on the existing battery works OK with it and I am OK with charging time so I am planning to keep it.

 

[Bengy22]

Innotrace does mention about 60A connector for 3000W motor on their website.

I think it was worth all the trouble to have the motor with such power.

I am planning to use 50s or p42a cells whichever will be available. 50s has smaller lifespan than p42a at maximum amperage usage scenario but at 4p configuration it will be utilized at 60% of the maximum amperage so they may have about equal lifespan in my application, but 50s cells offer significantly more capacity than p42a cells so I prefer to have 50s cells. But if they are not going to be available I will be happy with p42a cells because of they are significantly cheaper.

I heard about BMS with Bluetooth drains battery even when you do not use it and may drop the voltage below the limit withing not so long period of time so I would prefer BMS without Bluetooth or maybe with removable Bluetooth so I can keep it disconnected when I do not need it.

I am still doing research about BMS and at the moment I am confused why some 14s Li-ion BMS have 48V and some have 52V, and why it matches 13S voltage (48v). Are they different? 14s lithium ion with 3.7v nominal per cell should be 52V isn't it?

View attachment 113052

View attachment 113053

View attachment 113054

I have 4A charger and the barrel connector on the existing battery works OK with it and I am OK with charging time so I am planning to keep it.

P42a while on paper has a lot less capacity it all depends on how many continuous amps you pull, if you plan to stay heavy on the throttle the gap gets a lot smaller. Mooches battery tests show that at 10a cont its 14.0wh vs 12.4wh, or about a 13% capacity increase vs 19% on paper. Of course that % difference will heavily depend on how heavy you are on the throttle. Something to think about with the 2x price per cell as you mentioned. We need newer 21700s to hit the consumer market already.

As for the bluetooth options that is something I've heard but personally think the added protection to see exactly what is going on instead of assuming the bms has it covered is worth the potential to drain the battery over a month or two. But I have seen some that have a on a off button to fully power it down to make sure that doesn't happen, I plan to buy one like that when I build my next battery. As for the bms I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the seller didn't bother making sure the online photos design actually made sense. I would go with one that at least has the correct amount of series connections listed as that's all that should matter, but always good to make sure both are correct.

 

[TQFreak]

I think I figured out why some manufacturers mark 14s Li-ion BMS as 48V instead of 52V. That 48V indicated not the battery nominal voltage the BMS is designed for but it indicates the standard voltage of the electrical system the battery with such BMS can work with. Most of the electrical systems (motors, gadgets, etc) at that level of voltage are designed for 48V (not for 52V) and it matches 13S batteries but 48V electrical systems also can work with 52V batteries (which is 14S batteries), and this is why 14S BMS are marked as 48V - this is the voltage of the system where you can use this battery with this BMS, not the battery voltage.

For instance most bikes motors at that level of voltage are designed for 48V, but they can work not only with 13S Li-ion batteries but also with 14S Li-ion batteries and that's why manufacturers mark 14S Li-ion BMS as 48V (while the nominal voltage of 14S battery is 52V).

The only thing I need to figure out is if 14S 48V BMS output voltage emulates 13S battery output voltage (reduces the voltage) or it does not reduce the voltage and the output is actually 52V. I need to know it because of it looks like my motor display is programmed for 52V system to indicate the charge level correctly and if 14S 48V BMS output is not 52V but 48V then the display will not indicate the correct charge level and the motor might not work properly if it is adjusted for 52V.

I know for sure my current battery BMS output at fully charged battery is 58V so the BMS output is 52V nominal so I need 14S BMS with the same behavior regardless if it is marked as 48V or 52V. If that 14S 48V BMS output is not 52V nominal but 48V nominal then I will have problems.

 

[TeoElFeo]

14s BMS doesn't emulate 13s voltage. It starts at 58.8 and cut's off at around 45-46v. So the nominal is 52v and if your bike programmed for that then you will have correct SoC. I have the opposite situation. I use 14s battery but the firmware is programmed for 48v. So SoC is not displayed correctly. However I just simply check the voltage via Bluetooth BMS. And I can also tell you that it consumes very little power. Voltage drop is less than 0.1v(whole system) over the time of one week. I have never kept the bike idle for longer so can't really tell but imo BMS energy consumption is not an issue at all.

 

[rezystor1990]

- 14s BMS doesn't emulate 13s voltage
- My bms are marked 14s 52v, there shouldn't be a 48v mark
- I recommend smart BMS ANT, bluetooth works only when the battery is discharged or the charger is connected. Bluetooth consumes very little power, this is not a problem in use.
- the pictures of the battery construction may be useful to you E55 RIHNO-21700

 

[PH1L1PP3]

The Bafang m620 wiring harness supplied with Innotrace X1 motor has yellow 3 pins connectors for brakes e-stops but those connectors are incompatible with Magura MT5e brake connectors (2 pins).

You can make them compatible using this method






But I decided to purchase another Bafang m620 harness with Magura MT5e connectors

Magura Main Wiring Harness for Ultra M620 G510

This e-bus cable is the main wiring harness which extends from the motor to the handlebars and allows you to connect throttle, brakes and display. This Ultra Special E-bus Cable features two Higo 2 conductors (Red) plugs when connecting the Ebrake cutoffs. This combination is very superior to...

california-ebike.com

Unfortunately this cable is shorted than the original Bafang m620 harness and it is too short to fit Dengfu e55 17" frame

View attachment 107917


So I decided to use these two cable to make one long cable with Magura MT5e connectors

I cut a piece on the motor side from the original harness long enough


View attachment 107916

Removed part of the main insulation

View attachment 107918

View attachment 107919

Cut off the plug from the Bafang m620 MT5e cable

View attachment 107920

Trimmed the wires with matching colors to the stepped lengths (to prevent growing thickness of the cable and possible shortage)

View attachment 107921

View attachment 107922

Stripped and tinned the wires

View attachment 107923

View attachment 107924

Attached the harness sleeve to the motor plug exposed wires area to protect the exposed wires and to keep them flexible at the same time

View attachment 107925

Secured it with heat shrink tubes with adhesive liner

View attachment 107926

Attached the heat shrink tubes with adhesive liner to the cable and to the wires

View attachment 107927

Soldered the wires with corrsponding colors and leghts

View attachment 107928

Fused the heat shrink tubes

View attachment 107929

View attachment 107930

Very nice, clean and detailled assembly!
I see you choose MTe5 brake levers.
Guys, do you think it is mandatory to get ebrake levers?

 

[PH1L1PP3]

- 14s BMS doesn't emulate 13s voltage
- My bms are marked 14s 52v, there shouldn't be a 48v mark
- I recommend smart BMS ANT, bluetooth works only when the battery is discharged or the charger is connected. Bluetooth consumes very little power, this is not a problem in use.
- the pictures of the battery construction may be useful to you E55 RIHNO-21700

Thank you for sharing the pics.
Have you done a dedicated post for your battery and what is the reference of the cells you are using?
I plan Samsung INR21700-50S
Capacity: 5000mAh
Rated Voltage 3.6V - 3.7V
Charging cycle termination voltage 4.20V ± 0.05V
max discharge current: 35A
13S3P I should get 46,8/48,1V 15Ah 702/721,5Wh

 

[rezystor1990]

LG M50LT 5000mAh - 14s4p ~1000Wh

 

[TQFreak]

Very nice, clean and detailled assembly!
I see you choose MTe5 brake levers.
Guys, do you think it is mandatory to get ebrake levers?

No, not mandatory, but it a good safety feature.

I disconnected the rear brake wires from the harness to be able to wheelie. The front brake is still connected.

 

[BojanZ]

Alringt, it looks like they started sorting things out. Krasnodar from Innotrace was able to fix my motor remotely! Now it is 3000W !

The issue was the wrong firmware and not adjusted to the necessary power motor.

Now at 3000W it pulls so hard that it almost lift the front wheel! The BMS turned the battery down after a few seconds of hard acceleration on the throttle.

Does the rear bend (rear forks/triangle) a little bit when using full power? I have E22 frame and it is noticable on asphalt..

 

[TQFreak]

I think the rear triangle does not flex and does not have freeplay, but the rear axle has a little freeplay. Plus I use Kindernay VII and it has some freeplay too so yes under load the rear wheel turns a little relatively the rear triangle.

 

[TeoElFeo]

Does the rear bend (rear forks/triangle) a little bit when using full power? I have E22 frame and it is noticable on asphalt..

Check all the pivot points first of all. There might be some play that could cause it. Ask someone to rock the wheel while holding fingers at each pivot point to check for play.

 

[TQFreak]

By the way, on my rear triangle some fasteners got loose after a few hundred miles and I tightened them with red locktite and marked with silver Sharpie to see keep an eye on them.

All the spokes on the rear wheel got loose too after a few hundred miles so I had to tighten them too.

After tightening the fasteners and the spokes it works OK so far other than a little freeplay in the axle and the Kindernay gear hub was from the beginning.

 

[TQFreak]

Great news! Innotrace software was completely bypassed and now you can setup you motor up to crazy 3500W power and 100A current.

Now you can squeeze all the juices out of you Bafang m620

Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)

Those settings visable are the only ones able to be edited without the master software. With the master account you can edit more. A member posted a screen shot of the Voltage Settings - set incorrectly for my purpose. The 'Unicorn' icon. It was in a throttle thread - a bored Member had posted...

electricbikereview.com

 

[TeoElFeo]

A very interesting thread! Happy for all the Innotrace users out there! But also completely convinced against Innotrace. Well, probably won't be able to get one now anyway Yet there might be a new player(motor) coming soon and it's not the M630.

 

[TQFreak]

- 14s BMS doesn't emulate 13s voltage
- My bms are marked 14s 52v, there shouldn't be a 48v mark
- I recommend smart BMS ANT, bluetooth works only when the battery is discharged or the charger is connected. Bluetooth consumes very little power, this is not a problem in use.
- the pictures of the battery construction may be useful to you E55 RIHNO-21700

It looks like you do not use fuses for the battery. Do you feel it is OK to make it without fuses? I am trying to cram one MAXI fuse (80A 58V for discharge) and one MINI fuse (7.5A for the battery charge and level indicator) but it is extremely difficult to allocate them in such limited space. Even removing the MAXI fuse for discharge would help a lot but that means there is only one BMS for protection.

 

[rezystor1990]

If the BMS is operational, it protects the maximum current. If the BMS breaks down and causes a short circuit, the fuse on the red wire does nothing.

I have a charging protection on the charger cable, you don't have to put it inside the battery. You can also protect the motor-battery connection with a physical fuse externally on the cable going to the motor.

To have more space inside the battery, I threw away the LED indicator. I am using smart BMS I don't need this indicator.

 

[TeoElFeo]

Does somebody know the exact shock bushings sizes for e55 frame?