Sir_Szendi
Member
I asked in the shop about the software with a 45km limit. They told me it was a different engine, but if I wanted they could change the engine to the one with a 45km limit. of course the price of a new engine is very high
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Derestricting bosch smart system
- Thread starter hallohallo
- Start date
martyfrommonmouth
Member
I'm pretty sure they are all similiar internals - just software differences and form factor. Anyway - I can get 30mph out of mine but I'm pedaling like crazy....
Sir_Szendi
Member
45 limit motors have a larger gear in the motor, so it's easier to get higher speeds without pedaling like crazy
martyfrommonmouth
Member
I did a decent ride to the woods and back home again and the chip performed well.
I did however lose power twice on the way home on the road and I think it is due to this function:
Hint for tamper detection
Bosch has introduced a significantly sharper detection of tuning
manipulation in their 4th generation motors. A standard tuning is typically
detected within a very short time, causing the motor to indicate
manipulation and switch to a limp-home mode with reduced motor
power or completely shut down motor assistance.
This state can be reset by riding without tuning. According to Bosch, this
may require up to 90 minutes of driving. Alternatively, the error memory
can be cleared by the bicycle dealer.
We have developed an algorithm to prevent this detection. During the
development of our tunings, we have extensively tested them over
several thousand kilometers to ensure that you can enjoy your pedelec
without any restrictions or error messages. Despite all our efforts, there
remains a small residual risk that under certain circumstances,
manipulation may still be detected. Therefore, please take note of the
following system-specific changes:
With the Bosch Smart System, it is possible that after a long ride at a high
speed, you may enter a critical area where the tuning can be detected. If
our tuning detects this situation, the motor assistance will be limited to
30 km/h. This limitation will be automatically removed as soon as the
technical conditions allow. This limit is additionally indicated on the
bikespeed display by a yellow bar at the top edge.
It was quite jarring. I have emailed the bikespeed guys and asked them if there is anyway to avoid this but I think its unavoidable due to the Bosch Detection algo.
The main thing is I suppose, is that the tuning has not been detected, but worth bearing in mind that this will affect you if you are on a longer ride continously at high speed with this chip.
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Do you know what, I can't be sure to know as I turned it off immediately and rebooted the bike as I was on a 3 lane fast road and needed to keep with traffic.
I will test again (with a speed app) and let you know but I think it was that it felt like I lost power as I was way over 30kmh and suddenly I was trying to pedal along with no assist.
I’ve wasted 14 hours of my life messing with a speedfun gen 5 evo kit,did everything possible including going way and beyond to prove the fact it was not working for my particular bike by having the replacement sensor on a flipping bit of wood 300mm past the rear axle..as they kept saying it’s needs to be futher away from the Bosch internal sensor,it would either work for a min over 25kph then get the orange light on controller or would just hit the 25 an restrict..currently trying to get my money back from the supplier
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Damn - so annoying.
My bikespeed RS works - just note there are limitations but at least bikespeed tell you these beforehand and they can only do so much to combat Bosch. Without source code and access to the bikes motor firmware there's nothing much anyone can do except work around the limitations of the Bosch detection algorithm.
To be honest I'm already thinking that in a couple of years I will get a bike with a DJI motor as they can be derestricted easily by just setting your location i.e. New Zealand using a VPN.... Bosch are making it too difficult and invasive - it's my bike and motor - if I want to ride it at high speeds I'll take the risk and the consequences. Thanks all the same Bosch police.
Joecrow
Active member
Bear in mind that if Bosch and the other manufactures don't make it difficult and too many people derestrict their E-bikes it won't be long till someone in government decides that all E-bikes are not ordinary push bikes and need to registered, taxed, inspected regularly and have a number plate. Don't screw it up for everybody!
I think guys you need to check the Mountain tunning (MTT) its very popular in germany with ZERO errors so far ! (11 000 KM Winora Gen 4 Smart System with mine and no issues (524 or 504) : MTT Smartchips V2
Do know why it's not popular here, it's the perfect solution
They have developed a new solution for rim magnets/gen 5 : RIM BOOST V2 (Sorry it's german but you can use Deepdl or Google trad) EBIKE TUNING BLOG RIMBOOST V2
I really recommended to read this german/forum threads, they provide lots of useful informations : Bosch Tuning Smart system
Not Cheap but better than the crap Speedbox &
https://www.ebiketuningshop.com/col...ng/products/rimboost-v2-38-bosch-felgenmagnet
Do know why it's not popular here, it's the perfect solution
They have developed a new solution for rim magnets/gen 5 : RIM BOOST V2 (Sorry it's german but you can use Deepdl or Google trad) EBIKE TUNING BLOG RIMBOOST V2
I really recommended to read this german/forum threads, they provide lots of useful informations : Bosch Tuning Smart system
Not Cheap but better than the crap Speedbox &
https://www.ebiketuningshop.com/col...ng/products/rimboost-v2-38-bosch-felgenmagnet
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Same as all the others - no guarantees....
No Bosch tuning detection
To ensure that the notorious Bosch anti-tuning software doesn't affect this tuning product, extensive test drives were conducted. any The Bosch system did not detect tuning, and no error messages were generated. To the best of my knowledge, RimBoost V2.38 seems to be immune to all current anti-tuning measures.
But please note: There are now indications that the infamous Bosch error message "524001" can occasionally occur even without tuning. Therefore, we cannot give a 100 percent guarantee that this error message will not occur. However, it did not occur during any of our test drives. Nevertheless, we cannot completely rule out the occurrence of a 524001 error.
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Yeah - it's a stupid situation in general with arbitary rules that are different in every country... the whole thing is bit ridiculous considering:Bear in mind that if Bosch and the other manufactures don't make it difficult and too many people derestrict their E-bikes it won't be long till someone in government decides that all E-bikes are not ordinary push bikes and need to registered, taxed, inspected regularly and have a number plate. Don't screw it up for everybody!
During Tour de France sprints on flat sections, riders can reach peak speeds of 70-75 km/h (48.47 mph), with some sprinters like Mark Cavendish reaching even higher speeds.
On relatively flat stages of the Tour de France, professional cyclists typically average speeds around 25-28 mph (40-45 km/h)
Thing is I only want 20mph
martyfrommonmouth
Member
You need to just find a shop that will flash it to US country code and you'll get 20mph. I'm sure someone out there will do this...Thing is I only want 20mph
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Second decent ride today until I did a huge downhill run (with some very rough bumpy sections) and hit 40mph (well according to Strava) and when I got to the bottom the Bosch system controller in the frame went Orange. I had very limited assist. Barely anything. Limp mode activated. Rebooted the bike and got assist for 3 secs and then flashing Orange light. No more assist (well basically none - like 1mph assist) for me and day ended short...
Got home checked the Flow app and error 523001
Speed sensor not working correctly so something has triggered it as it is in the same position since being installed. I'll remove the derestrictor tomorrow and put back the original magnet on the Rim and see if that resolves the error.
I feel like selling the bike and getting an Amflow with DJI (wish I had in fact) but didn't find out about them until after I bought the Cube with Bosch.
Speaking with Bikespeed.de so I'll see what they say... maybe it's easily resolved but thats 2 rides and 2 lots of errors.
<RANT> It really shouldn't be this hard to derestrict the bike - I was in a private woodland. I should be able to ride the bike how I want... </RANT>
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Well I removed everything and the bike is fine.
I then bought some neodymium magnets and stuck them on top of the existing spoke magnet to get the magnet as close as possible to the sensor and it has solved the 523001 issue and is fully working.
However this is not a good long term solution and I'm trying to work out how to get a closer connection with a spoke magnet that is not liable to move in rough terrain.
I can see why rim magnets were brought in - spoke magnets on a downhill mountain bike are not a good idea.
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Please wait a moment while we check whether you are human or a bot. You will then be automatically redirected. Some interesting ideas
Spoke magnet housing for bicycle computers @ Pinshape This would be good but I'd need to make it just for my bike as the spoke spacing would not be correct - at least it would hold it securely...
Spoke magnet housing for bicycle computers @ Pinshape This would be good but I'd need to make it just for my bike as the spoke spacing would not be correct - at least it would hold it securely...
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
@TheKaiser have a read through this page especially and the whole thread. It is for Gen 4 Cx but they run the same smart system as the gen 5 CX.
martyfrommonmouth
Member
The systems are slightly different. Hence the old cX4 devices not working.
New CX 5 has new algorithms to detect errors and hardware changes.
Hence the race by the different companies to make a stable, error free derestricting device.
Peaky Rider
E*POWAH Master
A somewhat irrelevant conclusion I draw from reading some of this thread is just how difficult Bosch make it to derestrict their latest motors whereas the Chinese just couldn't care less.
Fortunately, my two bikes both have the earlier Bosch CXs and they are pretty straightforward to tamper with, I would never go near a rim magnet bike. There are two ways of EASILY derestricting the DJI motor that I am aware of, giving them a hell of an advantage over other motors. I know which way I would go if I needed a new bike.
Sometimes, you just gotta love the Chinese.
Fortunately, my two bikes both have the earlier Bosch CXs and they are pretty straightforward to tamper with, I would never go near a rim magnet bike. There are two ways of EASILY derestricting the DJI motor that I am aware of, giving them a hell of an advantage over other motors. I know which way I would go if I needed a new bike.
Sometimes, you just gotta love the Chinese.
Yeah love the chinese manufacters for don't give a damn ! Bosch is so fucking weird about restriction, i love their motors but don't understand this obsession with speed rulesA somewhat irrelevant conclusion I draw from reading some of this thread is just how difficult Bosch make it to derestrict their latest motors whereas the Chinese just couldn't care less.
Fortunately, my two bikes both have the earlier Bosch CXs and they are pretty straightforward to tamper with, I would never go near a rim magnet bike. There are two ways of EASILY derestricting the DJI motor that I am aware of, giving them a hell of an advantage over other motors. I know which way I would go if I needed a new bike.
Sometimes, you just gotta love the Chinese.
If they are so obsessively enforcing these restrictions, it’s because they have a lot to gain—whether through financial incentives, maintaining a monopoly over repairs and modifications, or ensuring that only their approved software and hardware ecosystem can function. By tightly controlling the motor’s behavior and remotely policing potential modifications, they can force users into a closed system where they dictate upgrades, servicing, and replacements. This isn’t just about safety or compliance—it’s about locking customers into dependence, ensuring long-term profits, and preventing any form of user autonomy over a product they supposedly own. If it were purely about regulations, they wouldn’t go to such extremes with detection and enforcement. The level of control suggests a deeper strategy: total domination over how, when, and where their technology is used.
TheKaiser
Active member
Hey man, thanks for the suggestion! I'd meant to post my original question about the reversibility of the tuning mods (in case there is need of a motor warranty), in the Gen 5 tuning thread, but must have had a few tabs open and accidentally posted it in the Norco thread. Either way, thanks for directing my attention to this overall Smart System and Gen4 thread, as there seems to be a lot more real world experience and knowledge to be gained here, by virtue of the motor being on the market for so much longer.
BTW, I see you are in NZ. Earlier in this thread, I have seen the suggestion that UK riders can potentially get their Bosch system firmware reflashed by a dealer/service center to have the USA region code, upping their speed limit to the higher 20mph/32kph US level. I have also seen the suggestion that the DJI equipped bikes are easy to reset to the NZ region code, which makes them completely unrestricted. Can you confirm for me what limits Bosch imposes on NZ region coded bikes? From what I have gathered, there are not specific limits imposed by the government, but nonetheless many motor brands still send NZ restricted models, so I just wanted to double check what can be expected when reflashing to the NZ firmware from another region on a Bosch Gen4 or Gen5 bike?
JP-NZ
E*POWAH Elite World Champion
To make it easy for you, no authorised bosch service centre will change countries firmware for you as its illegal. Unless you are VERY friendly with one I'd say thats almost impossible. Otherwise everyone in the UK would just get their dealer to change country.
Amflow, its only a work around until DJI cut that loophole.
NZ standard is 32kph/20mph which is majority of the world standard. NZ law states that ebikes in general have a maximum speed limit of 45kph/28mph which is common on commuters/cargo bikes. No EMTB's are sold with that limit though.
TheKaiser
Active member
I say this with great affection for both cultures, but it seems to be rooted in Germans loving orderliness in their own country, and wanting to impose it on other countries for what they view as the greater good, whereas the Chinese, who also love orderliness in their own country, are happy to let the rest of the world run themselves into a brick wall. As a freedom loving American, I gladly accept the brick wall challenge!
Again, no offense meant to anyone from the aforementioned countries.
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Currently Amflow will be totally derestricted if you set it to NZ.
setting dji to new zealand location
is it in fact true that u can use a phone vpn to simply set the dji system to new zealand location? if yes will it just hold that setting? does the system have a gps within it that it can use to determine its location on its own?
www.emtbforums.com
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Well thats bull mate - as its the Germans who are making the best Derestricting devices....I say this with great affection for both cultures, but it seems to be rooted in Germans loving orderliness in their own country, and wanting to impose it on other countries for what they view as the greater good, whereas the Chinese, who also love orderliness in their own country, are happy to let the rest of the world run themselves into a brick wall. As a freedom loving American, I gladly accept the brick wall challenge!
Again, no offense meant to anyone from the aforementioned countries.
Maybe they are working hand in hand with Bosch
martyfrommonmouth
Member
Whole things a racquet. From Bosch closed source systems, to motors that brick themselves... They are worse than Apple yet they are the biggest con men in history with VW scandal.... They got to make the money back somehowMaybe they are working hand in hand with Bosch
Bosch pays 90-million-euro fine over diesel scandal
The penalty may be significantly less than the ones handed out to Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche, but auto parts supplier Bosch has become the latest big-name casualty of the "Dieselgate" scandal.
www.dw.com
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If I buy hardware that relies on software to function, I should have the right to access, modify, and adapt that software. If I own the device, I should have full control over how it operates, rather than being locked into proprietary restrictions. Open-source software for hardware ensures transparency, security, and the ability to improve or repair what I own. It’s not just about convenience—it’s about ownership and the right to make my technology work for me.
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