Avinox Reveals its Motor Gearbox

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Based on Rob's video of his convo and short ride with Canyon it doesn't sound to me like the system is at the point of development it could be ridden to that extend or they'd give anyone that level of ride. These YT'ers will say anything for views these days so I trust most very little.... That said I almost always get a little over 2k m vert from my 800w and I'd expect anything new to be that or better. If an eCVT cut my current ride duration/elevation even 10-15% at a similar weight I'd for sure stick with a derailleur.

canyon are claiming 2k metres with it. Not me. In fact I didn’t mention that at all, I didn’t even ride a Canyon?

 

[Fangs2k]

A few of the retro randonneuring companies have started making new friction shifters, and some of the influencers in that world have been extolling the virtues of how they make you more "in tune" with your bike and require less maintenance, so that debate is still going on (albeit in a very small scale niche part of the cycling world)!

Hey, some people prefer vinyl records to streaming music, each to their own I guess.

It’s what makes us humans.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

canyon are claiming 2k metres with it. Not me. In fact I didn’t mention that at all, I didn’t even ride a Canyon?

Didn't say you mentioned that, I was replying to the previous comment saving some other YT'er said that.

Of course I did the old ass-u-me but after talking to Canyon then saying you have a ride on the new system without specifying which a person could almost think correctly it was that brands bike. I'll take that as a big old nope.

 

[DylanJM]

Didn't say you mentioned that, I was replying to the previous comment saving some other YT'er said that.

Of course I did the old ass-u-me but after talking to Canyon then saying you have a ride on the new system without specifying which a person could almost think correctly it was that brands bike. I'll take that as a big old nope.

Rob wasn't talking with Canyon in the vid it was someone from Avinox. They were just using the Canyon frame as the prop.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Rob wasn't talking with Canyon in the vid it was someone from Avinox. They were just using the Canyon frame as the prop.

My fault for watching a video at work and having to pretend not to.

 

[Astro66]

Avinox made a big difference in the routes I take climbing and I can see this being another big jump.

Yep. Once again it will be climbing where this motor will leave other riders with derailleurs in the dust. Right now. At the bottom of a very technical climb. I pretty much have to pick a gear and stick with it the whole section. Unless you can find a point in the climb to power off and shift. You need a few seconds.

With Auto. As you climb and slow, the gear ratio will just change and you can maintain your cadence and power, and not stall out. The only time you need to back off is to prevent rock strikes with your pedals. And overrun can sort this out.

The only problem I foresee is crank timing to prevent pedal strikes. As the gear ratio changes mid pedal stroke, it will be harder to judge when the pedals at bottom dead centre, will align with an obstacle ahead.

 

[JP-NZ]

I think we will see this on bikes within 12 months. People laughed at me when I said DJI would have a new motor to market within 12 months of the M2S launching.

Massive props to have show demo bikes out so soon after the M2S launch in April.

 

[Powerslider]

I think we will see this on bikes within 12 months. People laughed at me when I said DJI would have a new motor to market within 12 months of the M2S launching.

Massive props to have show demo bikes out so soon after the M2S launch in April.

Avinox already confirmed they'll have it for sale "next year."

 

[highly_Focused]

Well done DJI for this innovation: 2 years after their first motor.
Shimano, Bosch, Sram deserve the consequences of their lack of innovation over the last 10+ years.

Going to be so awesome to pedal out of the corner and be in the right "ratio" with no chain skipping.

Yep! Definitely put Shimano, Bosch, Sram and the whole industry on notice. Well done DJI. Only problem is my Amflow PL is already outdated with the new models recently released and stands to be made archaic when this motor is released. Pity it is not backwards compatible with the PL frame

 

[Astro66]

Yep! Definitely put Shimano, Bosch, Sram and the whole industry on notice. Well done DJI. Only problem is my Amflow PL is already outdated with the new models recently released and stands to be made archaic when this motor is released. Pity it is not backwards compatible with the PL frame

The MGU was never going to fit into the M1 of M2S frame, as it needs to be wider to accommodate all the components of the E-CVT.

I will only getting an Enduro MGU, so it will not replace my Amflow PL Carbon Pro. But it probably will replace my Teewing Flux, which I just bought, and yes I do wish I knew the MGU was coming out in 2027 when they announced the M2S. I would have still bought the Amflow in 2025. But not the M2S Enduro Teewing this year.

 

[ArmyOfEvilRobots]

What a total nightmare this is for SRAM/Shimano. It changes a lot not just from a technical perspective, but it also changes the marketing side a lot:

1. MGU is probably going to be perceived as the new premium product, which makes even the nicest rear derailleur and cassette look like a second class product. Who needs XX1 anything when it's all replaced, hidden in a case around the BB?
2. It kicks them out of the drivetrain entirely since the cranks/chainring/chain/belt/shifters/bb are all either part of or integrated with the motor.
3. It breaks the bundled sales model of drivetrain+brakes+etc. as a package deal for the bike manufacturers entirely.

It'll probably not impact TRP or Advent, and Shimano can probably do OK on the lower end stuff, but I'm really curious how this impacts the ebike component landscape long-term. I know I just stopped shopping for an ebike entirely; I'll wait to see how these shake out.

Side note; friend of mine and all around brilliant engineer (who invented the Supre drive system) wrote a bit about yet another kind of bike ecvt from a technical perspective a few days ago: eCVT e-bike hub motor It's not about either of these new mainstream ones, but it gets into the fine details, including talking about the issue of torque slip, which we haven't heard from the bike news yet.

 

[Brawwp]

What a total nightmare this is for SRAM/Shimano. It changes a lot not just from a technical perspective, but it also changes the marketing side a lot:

1. MGU is probably going to be perceived as the new premium product, which makes even the nicest rear derailleur and cassette look like a second class product. Who needs XX1 anything when it's all replaced, hidden in a case around the BB?
2. It kicks them out of the drivetrain entirely since the cranks/chainring/chain/belt/shifters/bb are all either part of or integrated with the motor.
3. It breaks the bundled sales model of drivetrain+brakes+etc. as a package deal for the bike manufacturers entirely.

It'll probably not impact TRP or Advent, and Shimano can probably do OK on the lower end stuff, but I'm really curious how this impacts the ebike component landscape long-term. I know I just stopped shopping for an ebike entirely; I'll wait to see how these shake out.

Side note; friend of mine and all around brilliant engineer (who invented the Supre drive system) wrote a bit about yet another kind of bike ecvt from a technical perspective a few days ago: eCVT e-bike hub motor It's not about either of these new mainstream ones, but it gets into the fine details, including talking about the issue of torque slip, which we haven't heard from the bike news yet.

Good, maybe it’ll free up some time for sram so they can massage their own damn maven calipers before sending them off.

 

[dadeadduck]

I think we will see this on bikes within 12 months. People laughed at me when I said DJI would have a new motor to market within 12 months of the M2S launching.

Massive props to have show demo bikes out so soon after the M2S launch in April.

Expecting Amflow PG first and partners releasing close to it, as Canyon seem to be featuring heavily, I'm guessing they are securing some big orders numbers.

 

[nickf]

I think we will see this on bikes within 12 months. People laughed at me when I said DJI would have a new motor to market within 12 months of the M2S launching.

Massive props to have show demo bikes out so soon after the M2S launch in April.

You may be right but remember they're saying this is only currently a "concept" motor. That's one step down from a "prototype", so there's still quite some development to go before it's ready for production. But who knows? They do move fast!

I was looking for the absent welds on the Commencal frame, then the guy said it was 3D printed. I'm guessing all the others are too, so they're really just rapid prototype showcases. They serve their purpose for the Eurobike show, so props to them, but I wouldn't exactly call them demo bikes (I consider you should be able to ride a demo model). So all this discussion about idlers etc is somewhat pointless at the moment.

 

[sethimus]

Yep. Once again it will be climbing where this motor will leave other riders with derailleurs in the dust. Right now. At the bottom of a very technical climb. I pretty much have to pick a gear and stick with it the whole section. Unless you can find a point in the climb to power off and shift. You need a few seconds.

With Auto. As you climb and slow, the gear ratio will just change and you can maintain your cadence and power, and not stall out. The only time you need to back off is to prevent rock strikes with your pedals. And overrun can sort this out.

The only problem I foresee is crank timing to prevent pedal strikes. As the gear ratio changes mid pedal stroke, it will be harder to judge when the pedals at bottom dead centre, will align with an obstacle ahead.

yes, hence why auto mode has no existence in mtb applications.

 

[Badger5]

This new innovation looks awesome, not convinced it’s a CVT transmission in the traditional sense though, wonder if they are doing something funky like an epicyclic gear train with two motors inputting in and one outdrive?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

This new innovation looks awesome, not convinced it’s a CVT transmission in the traditional sense though, wonder if they are doing something funky like an epicyclic gear train with two motors inputting in and one outdrive?

eCVT

Check this video for a good explainer

 

[emtbeast]

This one is also pretty good to explain the inner workings of an e-cvt.

 

[boulderghost]

I get that we shouldn't moan about innovation but eMTBS are expensive most of us can only afford one. It's certainly put me off buying a M2S equipped bike even if there was one in the shop to purchase.

I would be gutted if I had just spent 10k on a Forbidden or Mondraker M2S.....

There is a reason they call it “the bleeding edge of technology”. Six months after you buy the new thing, it’s yesterday’s news. Just expect it. Or stop coveting the newest and greatest stuff and go on a bike ride. It’s your choice. Progress waits for no one.

 

[Singletrackmind]

Can see me replacing my Druid E with whatever MGU Forbidden bike arrives

I don’t have much information on Forbidden bikes and have read good things.

Care to elaborate on why you would choose the Druid E over the other bike manufacturers that will be launching MGU's?

 

[TheKaiser]

I think we will see this on bikes within 12 months. People laughed at me when I said DJI would have a new motor to market within 12 months of the M2S launching.

Massive props to have show demo bikes out so soon after the M2S launch in April.

There has been a lot of media from Eurobike over the past few days, so i can't recall where I saw it, but in one of the interviews relating to the Avinox gearbox/eCVT they said they were targeting late 2027, so on "2028" models (although model year designations are increasingly irrelevant).

I also saw info on the Gobao gearbox/eCVT that suggested they were targeting February 2027, so it seems like, in terms of realistic hopes of us being on the trails on a derailleurless eCVT 12mos from now, the Gobao is the safer bet.

There has been a lot of speculation that Avinox made a last minute decision to reveal the project, only after they learned that Gobao would be making a big splash by unveiling theirs (which is already ridable as Rob and several other journalists have shown). This makes sense to me, as Avinox have barely gotten started on M2/S deliveries, so they're assuredly cannibalizing some of their own sales by showing what they have planned for next year. Astro66 was one of the first guys on here buying an M2s bike, and even he said he would likely have waited had he known about this project sooner. Everyone else, who are realistically not going to be getting delivery until well into Q3 2026, will have even less incentive to invest in an M2/S bike, assuming they have a current bike to hold them over til the gearboxes arrive.

 

[JP-NZ]

Everyone else, who are realistically not going to be getting delivery until well into Q3 2026, will have even less incentive to invest in an M2/S bike, assuming they have a current bike to hold them over til the gearboxes arrive.

Yea, if I had an M2S on pre order I’d be cancelling right now. The MG just obsoleted the market.

 

[Highland Wheels]

I don’t have much information on Forbidden bikes and have read good things.

Care to elaborate on why you would choose the Druid E over the other bike manufacturers that will be launching MGU's?

Because I already have an M1 Druid E and love how it rides

 

[The undecided]

I get that we shouldn't moan about innovation but eMTBS are expensive most of us can only afford one. It's certainly put me off buying a M2S equipped bike even if there was one in the shop to purchase.

I would be gutted if I had just spent 10k on a Forbidden or Mondraker M2S.....

Sold out because the the inital stocks were quite low. Avinox had to spread out their stock amongst a massive amount of brands so there wasn't a whole lot of bikes available when it first launched. I think most brands will still need a lot of sales to make decent return and that is going to be harder with ECVT bikes on the horizon.

On the plus side M2S bikes will be cheap as chips come late 2027!

And Bosch gen 5 bikes will be getting given away or raffled off by the stores

 

[Ndanger]

If there is a liquidity squeeze, legacy inventory will definitely have a fire sale. Otherwise the suplus will slowly get absorbed by average bike riders that are not up to speed with the market. (A good example is how many Levo 4's were sold at a premium for a legacy design) I like Bosch for a host of reasons, it actually does everything I ask out of it and keeps on ticking after many km. I will gladly sign up for a few of the Bosch bikes at a discount for the family if the price is a significant value. I tend to by the previous year at the end of the season at a discount, I attribute that to "Scottish" heritage.

 

[G-Sport]

Side note; friend of mine and all around brilliant engineer (who invented the Supre drive system) wrote a bit about yet another kind of bike ecvt from a technical perspective a few days ago: eCVT e-bike hub motor It's not about either of these new mainstream ones, but it gets into the fine details, including talking about the issue of torque slip, which we haven't heard from the bike news yet.

Thanks for linking to that article. Very interesting and it deserves reading. My concern with the Freegen brake layout is that you are limited just to regen braking force/torque, which probably isn't enough for real MTB riding. I am also surprised that he dismisses a mid motor arrangements ability to do regen without really justifying it yet happily powers on despite the intrinsic unsprung mass of a hub motor, which seems far worse to me.

I think Avinox had their hands tied for Eurobike by GoBao's announcement. If they had kept everything quiet, GoBao would have been all anyone was talking about and even if they had launched a perfectly refined product in 12 months time, there would probably be the perception that they had done nothing before now and whatever they showed next year was the result of a hast copy-cat operation.
As it is, they have actually managed to dominate the coverage. My guess is that the partner brands had very little warning of this announcement and 3d printed mock-ups were all they had time for. But having 5 reputable brands looking like they are well into development has been almost as big a story as GoBao with a rideable product. Which is an amazing PR job if you think about it.

 

[Suns_PSD]

And Bosch gen 5 bikes will be getting given away or raffled off by the stores

Would you rather buy a used Gen5 or an M1/ M2 Avinox in say 3 years?
If you have common sense, you'd say the Gen5.
It's about long-term parts and service availability. Not to mention just overall reliability.
I suspect that as the product turnover at Avinox is very rapid, and obtaining service or replacements on older generation products becomes all but impossible, you'll see a corresponding drop in the value of these products on the used market.
How many M1 owners do you think are really going to be able to upgrade their motor to M2? So many of them want to yet none of them have done it successfully for example, yet these products are all but new.
Imagine comparing a used Gen 1 Amflow with an M1 to say a used Vala with a Gen5, in 2028. You'd have to be insane, or be buying it for next to nothing, to choose the Amflow.

PS. New Amflows PL Pro for sale for $2.4K in NM, USA btw. Seems to be a well established poster, but I'm not advocating.

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/dji-amflow-pl-carbon-pro-emtb-2026-800wh-e-mountain-bike.1245955/

 

[Singletrackmind]

The MGU was never going to fit into the M1 of M2S frame, as it needs to be wider to accommodate all the components of the E-CVT.

I will only getting an Enduro MGU, so it will not replace my Amflow PL Carbon Pro. But it probably will replace my Teewing Flux, which I just bought, and yes I do wish I knew the MGU was coming out in 2027 when they announced the M2S. I would have still bought the Amflow in 2025. But not the M2S Enduro Teewing this year.

Good point about reasoning for wishing you didn't purchase a Teewing on top of the Amflow you already purchased. You have 2 amazing bikes to enjoy!

My riding buddies who tend to purchase my "gently" used emtbs I sell after riding for ~2 years are already trying to lowball me on my new M2S Crestline that hasn't even arrived yet

I'll be sitting on having 2 M2S powered emtb's that are already "outdated" but have no regrets. Think there will be some natural learning curves and growing pains with the new technology and prefer to sit back the 1st year until they're worked out.

Seemed like emtb technology was moving at a slow to moderate pace and now it's off the charts. I was really hoping for advances in gearbox type innovations to eliminate the rear derailleur and traditional drivetrain components.

 

[Brawwp]

Would you rather buy a used Gen5 or an M1/ M2 Avinox in say 3 years?
If you have common sense, you'd say the Gen5.
It's about long-term parts and service availability. Not to mention just overall reliability.
I suspect that as the product turnover at Avinox is very rapid, and obtaining service or replacements on older generation products becomes all but impossible, you'll see a corresponding drop in the value of these products on the used market.
How many M1 owners do you think are really going to be able to upgrade their motor to M2? So many of them want to yet none of them have done it successfully for example, yet these products are all but new.
Imagine comparing a used Gen 1 Amflow with an M1 to say a used Vala with a Gen5, in 2028. You'd have to be insane, or be buying it for next to nothing, to choose the Amflow.

PS. New Amflows PL Pro for sale for $2.4K in NM, USA btw. Seems to be a well established poster, but I'm not advocating.

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/dji-amflow-pl-carbon-pro-emtb-2026-800wh-e-mountain-bike.1245955/

This thread is about the Avinox mg motor. Why are you once again trying to prove your Bosch is better? Go make a Bosch thread and have at it. You have such an ego man just stop.

What gives you the impression avinox is unreliable? Or this just more anti avinox rhetoric based off anything but facts?

There’s plenty guys with insane miles on m1 bikes already. More than I’d even have by 2028 if I still had my m1. Not seeing much in terms of motor failures/issues.

What parts are hard to get?

After actually having owned and ridden both, unlike you, I’d 100% take an m1 bike over Bosch. I guess to you that means I have no “common sense.” Though.

How many people are going from m1 back to Bosch? Almost none. Very few. Now how many went from m1 to now M2s? A crapload of us. Relax with your anti avinox bs dude. You have such an ego on here to prove Bosch is better everyday. I don’t understand this.

 

[Suns_PSD]

This thread is about the Avinox mg motor. Why are you once again trying to prove your Bosch is better? Go make a Bosch thread and have at it. You have such an ego man just stop.

What gives you the impression avinox is unreliable? Or this just more anti avinox rhetoric based off anything but facts?

There’s plenty guys with insane miles on m1 bikes already. More than I’d even have by 2028 if I still had my m1. Not seeing much in terms of motor failures/issues.

What parts are hard to get?

After actually having owned and ridden both, unlike you, I’d 100% take an m1 bike over Bosch. I guess to you that means I have no “common sense.” Though.

How many people are going from m1 back to Bosch? Almost none. Very few. Now how many went from m1 to now M2s? A crapload of us. Relax with your anti avinox bs dude. You have such an ego on here to prove Bosch is better everyday. I don’t understand this.

It was literally a direct response and I quoted someone saying that the Bosch bikes should be sold at extreme discounts. Just pointing out what should be pretty obvious.