Avinox Reveals its Motor Gearbox

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Based on Rob's video of his convo and short ride with Canyon it doesn't sound to me like the system is at the point of development it could be ridden to that extend or they'd give anyone that level of ride. These YT'ers will say anything for views these days so I trust most very little.... That said I almost always get a little over 2k m vert from my 800w and I'd expect anything new to be that or better. If an eCVT cut my current ride duration/elevation even 10-15% at a similar weight I'd for sure stick with a derailleur.

canyon are claiming 2k metres with it. Not me. In fact I didn’t mention that at all, I didn’t even ride a Canyon?

 

[Fangs2k]

A few of the retro randonneuring companies have started making new friction shifters, and some of the influencers in that world have been extolling the virtues of how they make you more "in tune" with your bike and require less maintenance, so that debate is still going on (albeit in a very small scale niche part of the cycling world)!

Hey, some people prefer vinyl records to streaming music, each to their own I guess.

It’s what makes us humans.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

canyon are claiming 2k metres with it. Not me. In fact I didn’t mention that at all, I didn’t even ride a Canyon?

Didn't say you mentioned that, I was replying to the previous comment saving some other YT'er said that.

Of course I did the old ass-u-me but after talking to Canyon then saying you have a ride on the new system without specifying which a person could almost think correctly it was that brands bike. I'll take that as a big old nope.

 

[DylanJM]

Didn't say you mentioned that, I was replying to the previous comment saving some other YT'er said that.

Of course I did the old ass-u-me but after talking to Canyon then saying you have a ride on the new system without specifying which a person could almost think correctly it was that brands bike. I'll take that as a big old nope.

Rob wasn't talking with Canyon in the vid it was someone from Avinox. They were just using the Canyon frame as the prop.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Rob wasn't talking with Canyon in the vid it was someone from Avinox. They were just using the Canyon frame as the prop.

My fault for watching a video at work and having to pretend not to.

 

[Astro66]

Avinox made a big difference in the routes I take climbing and I can see this being another big jump.

Yep. Once again it will be climbing where this motor will leave other riders with derailleurs in the dust. Right now. At the bottom of a very technical climb. I pretty much have to pick a gear and stick with it the whole section. Unless you can find a point in the climb to power off and shift. You need a few seconds.

With Auto. As you climb and slow, the gear ratio will just change and you can maintain your cadence and power, and not stall out. The only time you need to back off is to prevent rock strikes with your pedals. And overrun can sort this out.

The only problem I foresee is crank timing to prevent pedal strikes. As the gear ratio changes mid pedal stroke, it will be harder to judge when the pedals at bottom dead centre, will align with an obstacle ahead.

 

[JP-NZ]

I think we will see this on bikes within 12 months. People laughed at me when I said DJI would have a new motor to market within 12 months of the M2S launching.

Massive props to have show demo bikes out so soon after the M2S launch in April.

 

[Powerslider]

I think we will see this on bikes within 12 months. People laughed at me when I said DJI would have a new motor to market within 12 months of the M2S launching.

Massive props to have show demo bikes out so soon after the M2S launch in April.

Avinox already confirmed they'll have it for sale "next year."

 

[highly_Focused]

Well done DJI for this innovation: 2 years after their first motor.
Shimano, Bosch, Sram deserve the consequences of their lack of innovation over the last 10+ years.

Going to be so awesome to pedal out of the corner and be in the right "ratio" with no chain skipping.

Yep! Definitely put Shimano, Bosch, Sram and the whole industry on notice. Well done DJI. Only problem is my Amflow PL is already outdated with the new models recently released and stands to be made archaic when this motor is released. Pity it is not backwards compatible with the PL frame

 

[Astro66]

Yep! Definitely put Shimano, Bosch, Sram and the whole industry on notice. Well done DJI. Only problem is my Amflow PL is already outdated with the new models recently released and stands to be made archaic when this motor is released. Pity it is not backwards compatible with the PL frame

The MGU was never going to fit into the M1 of M2S frame, as it needs to be wider to accommodate all the components of the E-CVT.

I will only getting an Enduro MGU, so it will not replace my Amflow PL Carbon Pro. But it probably will replace my Teewing Flux, which I just bought, and yes I do wish I knew the MGU was coming out in 2027 when they announced the M2S. I would have still bought the Amflow in 2025. But not the M2S Enduro Teewing this year.

 

[ArmyOfEvilRobots]

What a total nightmare this is for SRAM/Shimano. It changes a lot not just from a technical perspective, but it also changes the marketing side a lot:

1. MGU is probably going to be perceived as the new premium product, which makes even the nicest rear derailleur and cassette look like a second class product. Who needs XX1 anything when it's all replaced, hidden in a case around the BB?
2. It kicks them out of the drivetrain entirely since the cranks/chainring/chain/belt/shifters/bb are all either part of or integrated with the motor.
3. It breaks the bundled sales model of drivetrain+brakes+etc. as a package deal for the bike manufacturers entirely.

It'll probably not impact TRP or Advent, and Shimano can probably do OK on the lower end stuff, but I'm really curious how this impacts the ebike component landscape long-term. I know I just stopped shopping for an ebike entirely; I'll wait to see how these shake out.

Side note; friend of mine and all around brilliant engineer (who invented the Supre drive system) wrote a bit about yet another kind of bike ecvt from a technical perspective a few days ago: eCVT e-bike hub motor It's not about either of these new mainstream ones, but it gets into the fine details, including talking about the issue of torque slip, which we haven't heard from the bike news yet.

 

[Brawwp]

What a total nightmare this is for SRAM/Shimano. It changes a lot not just from a technical perspective, but it also changes the marketing side a lot:

1. MGU is probably going to be perceived as the new premium product, which makes even the nicest rear derailleur and cassette look like a second class product. Who needs XX1 anything when it's all replaced, hidden in a case around the BB?
2. It kicks them out of the drivetrain entirely since the cranks/chainring/chain/belt/shifters/bb are all either part of or integrated with the motor.
3. It breaks the bundled sales model of drivetrain+brakes+etc. as a package deal for the bike manufacturers entirely.

It'll probably not impact TRP or Advent, and Shimano can probably do OK on the lower end stuff, but I'm really curious how this impacts the ebike component landscape long-term. I know I just stopped shopping for an ebike entirely; I'll wait to see how these shake out.

Side note; friend of mine and all around brilliant engineer (who invented the Supre drive system) wrote a bit about yet another kind of bike ecvt from a technical perspective a few days ago: eCVT e-bike hub motor It's not about either of these new mainstream ones, but it gets into the fine details, including talking about the issue of torque slip, which we haven't heard from the bike news yet.

Good, maybe it’ll free up some time for sram so they can massage their own damn maven calipers before sending them off.

 

[dadeadduck]

I think we will see this on bikes within 12 months. People laughed at me when I said DJI would have a new motor to market within 12 months of the M2S launching.

Massive props to have show demo bikes out so soon after the M2S launch in April.

Expecting Amflow PG first and partners releasing close to it, as Canyon seem to be featuring heavily, I'm guessing they are securing some big orders numbers.

 

[nickf]

I think we will see this on bikes within 12 months. People laughed at me when I said DJI would have a new motor to market within 12 months of the M2S launching.

Massive props to have show demo bikes out so soon after the M2S launch in April.

You may be right but remember they're saying this is only currently a "concept" motor. That's one step down from a "prototype", so there's still quite some development to go before it's ready for production. But who knows? They do move fast!

I was looking for the absent welds on the Commencal frame, then the guy said it was 3D printed. I'm guessing all the others are too, so they're really just rapid prototype showcases. They serve their purpose for the Eurobike show, so props to them, but I wouldn't exactly call them demo bikes (I consider you should be able to ride a demo model). So all this discussion about idlers etc is somewhat pointless at the moment.

 

[sethimus]

Yep. Once again it will be climbing where this motor will leave other riders with derailleurs in the dust. Right now. At the bottom of a very technical climb. I pretty much have to pick a gear and stick with it the whole section. Unless you can find a point in the climb to power off and shift. You need a few seconds.

With Auto. As you climb and slow, the gear ratio will just change and you can maintain your cadence and power, and not stall out. The only time you need to back off is to prevent rock strikes with your pedals. And overrun can sort this out.

The only problem I foresee is crank timing to prevent pedal strikes. As the gear ratio changes mid pedal stroke, it will be harder to judge when the pedals at bottom dead centre, will align with an obstacle ahead.

yes, hence why auto mode has no existence in mtb applications.

 

[Badger5]

This new innovation looks awesome, not convinced it’s a CVT transmission in the traditional sense though, wonder if they are doing something funky like an epicyclic gear train with two motors inputting in and one outdrive?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

This new innovation looks awesome, not convinced it’s a CVT transmission in the traditional sense though, wonder if they are doing something funky like an epicyclic gear train with two motors inputting in and one outdrive?

eCVT

Check this video for a good explainer

 

[emtbeast]

This one is also pretty good to explain the inner workings of an e-cvt.