Avinox launch 1500w M2S motor and cheaper M2 motor

I've read rumors on the German forum, new Strive will be using Avinox.

Makes sense to me, as the Strive is currently stuck to the CX Gen4 motor and they did not upgrade to Gen5
 
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Just saw a report that Bosch will be releasing a firmware update to increase their CX5 motor to 120Nm. Looks like they are under pressure to help their partners sell their bikes 🤔
 
emtbeast said:

🔋 Avinox Battery Comparison​

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What's surprising to me is that comparing the new 700wh to the old fixed 800wh the energy density only went from 214wh/kg to 220wh/kg or a 2.8% increase. I wish we had some more technical data on the exact cells used, I was expecting a bit better honestly though. Looking at the LG m58t found in the old 800wh pack at 273wh/kg moving to a new 6.5ah cell like the M65A at 314wh/kg would be a 15% jump at the cell level. I know it's not realistic to see that translate to a 15% for the whole battery but I would imagine it would net a more sizable jump than 2.8%
 
Uhrensohn said:
how is the efficency of the m2/m2s? do you get more range than the m1 with the same battery?
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Yes, by a couple percent, with the M2S being slightly better than the M2, which is slightly better than the M1, due to a switch from a tight oil type seal on a spindle to a sealed bearing.
 
Bengy22 said:
What's surprising to me is that comparing the new 700wh to the old fixed 800wh the energy density only went from 214wh/kg to 220wh/kg or a 2.8% increase. I wish we had some more technical data on the exact cells used, I was expecting a bit better honestly though. Looking at the LG m58t found in the old 800wh pack at 273wh/kg moving to a new 6.5ah cell like the M65A at 314wh/kg would be a 15% jump at the cell level. I know it's not realistic to see that translate to a 15% for the whole battery but I would imagine it would net a more sizable jump than 2.8%
Click to expand...
Yes, same surprise for me. It seems they really focused on batteries that could maintain the bonkers power that no one was asking for, rather than energy density or a real extender that 90% of us wanted.
 
Much easier to make crazy power numbers to get eyeballs, despite almost everyone detuning them down to CX5 or even SL numbers. Light & dense batteries is the chokepoint and will be for years.

I gotta admit, I don't love having a 50#/22.7kg bike, and I am not a weight weenie. My meat bikes usually clock in at 37 and change.
 
whitymon said:
He is paid & sponsored by Bosch so what would you expect? Saying BS on youtube should be punish by law if it influence buyer on every topic. A law already exist on financial product btw.
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You’re ok with YouTubers paid and sponsored by Avinox then?

You don’t need to cast your net very far to find one, but it’s how the world works.

Play the ball, not the man etc, he’s just sharing his opinion, same as we all are.
 
Fangs2k said:
You’re ok with YouTubers paid and sponsored by Avinox then?

You don’t need to cast your net very far to find one, but it’s how the world works.

Play the ball, not the man etc, he’s just sharing his opinion, same as we all are.
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I am nor pro or cons on any motor, period, all dishonest and biased content is a plague and mislead people on what they should buy.

Instead of writing your post you should have do a little research, he is very dishonest due to his business ties, you can like it or not and this has happened so many times.
 
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whitymon said:
I am nor pro or cons on any motor, period, all dishonest and biased content as a plague and mislead people on what they should buy.

Instead of writing your post you should have do a little research, he is very dishonest due to his business ties, you can like it or not and this has happened so many times.
Click to expand...

I’ve done as you suggest and can find no evidence that he’s paid by Bosch to say anything? Perhaps you can share your source?

As far as I can tell he’s an e-bike journalist, YouTube content creator and influencer? Same as Rob on here then.

It’s very hard to find a truly independent review source for anything these days, often people are seeking confirmation bias and there are lots of influencers and companies ready to give it to them.
 
dadeadduck said:
The difference is others don't go around bashing other products with baseless accusations, his is built around negativity and click bait.

Poor ball
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‘Baseless accusations’ or ‘overly hyping a product’ are two sides of the same coin really.

They’re all doing it for the clicks regardless, it’s the business model.

I will say I don’t care for his presentation style, but that’s beside the point, if you want a balanced view you’ve got to listen to people who are saying what you don’t want to hear or agree with as well.

Otherwise it’s a pointless echo chamber where any alternative views are drowned out.
 
Listening to utter nonsense doesn't help form a balanced opinion nor does it help deconstruct perceived echo chambers.

Genuine criticism and balanced opinion is polluted by unfounded claims and sensationist nonsense.
 
dadeadduck said:
Listening to utter nonsense doesn't help form a balanced opinion nor does it help deconstruct perceived echo chambers.

Genuine criticism and balanced opinion is polluted by unfounded claims and sensationist nonsense.
Click to expand...

People write that on here and other forums all the time, you don’t have to look very far.
 
TheKaiser said:
Hey Rob, can you comment on the quick swap removable battery pack lengths, and their placement in the PR model? I see the removable 800wh battery is kind of heavy relative to it's internal counterpart, but I was curious if it's length or placement lower down may actually give the front end a lighter feel than the 800wh integrated battery. Similarly, the 600wh removable battery is actually quite light, and I'd wondered if the PR model with a 600wh battery swapped in could be a pretty sweet setup for shorter rides, or is the mass still located up by the headtube?

I'm just thinking that if the weight distribution is the same or better with a PR, then a hot setup might be to have a 600wh and 800wh, so you could choose the appropriate capacity for a given ride, OR swap them for long days spent lapping a given trail center, OR stack them using the 600 as a range extender for the occasional backcountry epic (even if it is a sort of clumsy looking setup).
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Hi TheKaiser, this is as far as I’ve got so far in this thread, so apologies if my comment has already been mentioned or proven wrong, but I had an online chat with Amflow yesterday, as I was keen on the idea of the 600wh in the PR (to bring down the weight) but they said that is not an option. You can only buy the PR with the 800wh; furthermore- in trying to understand my question they made reference to the “new forthcoming” 600wh battery (I can’t remember what they called it but it was prefixed with a letter or something similar I think) which seemed to suggest it was specifically designed for the outside (range extending) fixture and not a normal 600wh designed to go inside like the 800wh. Anyway, thought I’d mention it, as I’d love to be wrong, as the PR is a great price and spec but the weight is too heavy for (very light) me!
 
PR should be coming to france begin May, i hope those youtubers talking about q3 only refer to US market?

Px with 600wh external would be my choice if i didnt have to have removeable battery. 700+600 , total weight 24kg which is great for 1300wh.

PR Pro is already just below 24kg right? 1400wh feels too much and so it 27kg setup.

Obviously 300 or 400 range extender would be optimal.

Otherwise 800wh and saving battery on the trip
 
RS600 Battery
Amflow PR
3. When used as an external battery, the Avinox RS600 Battery is only compatible, due to size constraints, with L, XL, and XXL frame sizes of Amflow PR Carbon and XL and XXL frame sizes of Amflow PR Carbon Pro.
Amflow PX
12. Due to size constraints, the Avinox RS600 Battery is only available for XL and XXL models in the Amflow PX series and is sold separately. Additional configurations will be available soon.

Not currently listed on the Avinox Accessories page (UK)
 
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whitymon said:
He is paid & sponsored by Bosch so what would you expect? Saying BS on youtube should be punish by law if it influence buyer on every topic. A law already exist on financial product btw.
Click to expand...

I agree there should be laws against making up lies online, as you are doing right now. Ulimately it hurts your feelings that his opinion is different than yours and that's leading you to make up crap.

Alex is sponsored by Leatt (a gear provider) & he prefers the Mahle motor the most and now seems like he is really enjoying the Maxon.

Here is the thing, ALL of these bicycle content providers depend on a supply of bikes and gear to review, and clicks, to make their living. What Alex is doing when he discusses his personal opinion, is getting less views, not more, because they are unpopular opinions. So to say he is doing it to 'make money' is absurd. I suspect that Alex is retired and well off and it's a passion project for him.

The endless pro-M1 Avinox reviews, when the motor rattled, pedaled poorly without power applied due to friction and was clearly energy inefficient (now by Avinox's own admission with the release of the M2), those were the people being 'dishonest' for money (imo, I've met individuals that have owned both, they universally said the DJI was well behind compared to Gen5 in direct contradiction to most online reviews). Not because Avinox was paying them cash, but because the glowing reviews fuels more test bikes and more clicks.

Get a grip dude.
 
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Bengy22 said:
What's surprising to me is that comparing the new 700wh to the old fixed 800wh the energy density only went from 214wh/kg to 220wh/kg or a 2.8% increase. I wish we had some more technical data on the exact cells used, I was expecting a bit better honestly though. Looking at the LG m58t found in the old 800wh pack at 273wh/kg moving to a new 6.5ah cell like the M65A at 314wh/kg would be a 15% jump at the cell level. I know it's not realistic to see that translate to a 15% for the whole battery but I would imagine it would net a more sizable jump than 2.8%
Click to expand...

I thought there was going to be a 15-20% increase in battery density, and that the new Avinox 700wh & 930wh batteries would be essentially the same weights as the old 600/ 800wh batteries.

If this is current peak energy density, how can Bosch create more dense batteries in the very near future as rumored?

Avinox is doing a good job of metering the new higher power levels, likely aided by their reluctor ring. But these new power levels are problematic not just from a trail access standpoint, but from a battery useage standpoint.
 
Fangs2k said:
I think as @TheKaiser alluded to, it’s perhaps a language thing.

I’ve only ridden an M1 motor in the past, but it’s obvious it’s torque sensor based over cadence, but you do get more assistance per rider input watt, but that’s just a result of the power and torque outputs and the 800% assistance.

You only need 125w to generate the 1000w on that motor, even an updated Bosch CX Gen 5 requires 187w of rider input to deliver the max 750w, so they do feel very different.

Perhaps that’s what he’s describing, but in a clumsy way. I don’t really watch his output much anyway.
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I wish it was just a language thing.
But he's said the same thing consistently. He's also got a border line vendetta against Avinox. He's so unbalanced and biased with his Avinox reviews it's more of a joke channel than anything else.
That with his arrogant manner make him unwatchable.
 
Suns_PSD said:
I thought there was going to be a 15-20% increase in battery density, and that the new Avinox 700wh & 930wh batteries would be essentially the same weights as the old 600/ 800wh batteries.

If this is current peak energy density, how can Bosch create more dense batteries in the very near future as rumored?

Avinox is doing a good job of metering the new higher power levels, likely aided by their reluctor ring. But these new power levels are problematic not just from a trail access standpoint, but from a battery useage standpoint.
Click to expand...
I haven't been able to determine it for sure, but it seems like the RS800 (removable) battery uses the same LG M58T (5.8 Ah nominal capacity, 2.7 A max charge current, 12.5 A max discharge current) cells as the old 600/800 wh internal batteries. If so, that's disappointing, as there are some better 21700 cells available now, or very soon (but maybe not when they had to commit to their production process?). Examples include the Molicel M65A (6.5 Ah, 2.7 A charge, 26 A discharge) and P60B (6.0 Ah, 30 A charge, 60-100 A discharge). So they could have got more power, more range, and faster charging for the same weight/size.

Even back when they made the old internal batteries, they could instead have used something like the Molicel P50B, which has a bit less capacity (5.0 Ah) but much higher charge and discharge rates - so we could have got a full recharge in about half an hour instead of ~2 hours. That would be a genuine alternative to removable batteries (can do multiple recharges per day when lapping enduro tracks) as well as giving us slower deterioration of the battery over many cycles (because they wouldn't be charging or discharging close to the physical limit). But I guess they wanted to prioritise energy density/range on a single charge, which I suppose some people would prefer.
 
pappy66 said:
I wish it was just a language thing.
But he's said the same thing consistently. He's also got a border line vendetta against Avinox. He's so unbalanced and biased with his Avinox reviews it's more of a joke channel than anything else.
That with his arrogant manner make him unwatchable.
Click to expand...
Just unsubscribe then 🤷‍♂️

Personally, I have never even heard of him.

This guy is the most unbiased I have found.

 
zizajaun said:
I haven't been able to determine it for sure, but it seems like the RS800 (removable) battery uses the same LG M58T (5.8 Ah nominal capacity, 2.7 A max charge current, 12.5 A max discharge current) cells as the old 600/800 wh internal batteries. If so, that's disappointing, as there are some better 21700 cells available now, or very soon (but maybe not when they had to commit to their production process?). Examples include the Molicel M65A (6.5 Ah, 2.7 A charge, 26 A discharge) and P60B (6.0 Ah, 30 A charge, 60-100 A discharge). So they could have got more power, more range, and faster charging for the same weight/size.

Even back when they made the old internal batteries, they could instead have used something like the Molicel P50B, which has a bit less capacity (5.0 Ah) but much higher charge and discharge rates - so we could have got a full recharge in about half an hour instead of ~2 hours. That would be a genuine alternative to removable batteries (can do multiple recharges per day when lapping enduro tracks) as well as giving us slower deterioration of the battery over many cycles (because they wouldn't be charging or discharging close to the physical limit). But I guess they wanted to prioritise energy density/range on a single charge, which I suppose some people would prefer.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

Perhaps they are trying to balance price to performance?

Also, currently the charger operates at 12a - if he have the ability to charge any faster, is it possible? Our UK plugs are 13a max.
 
Eduardoramundo said:
Just unsubscribe then 🤷‍♂️

Personally, I have never even heard of him.

This guy is the most unbiased I have found.

Click to expand...
I'm sure he paid his own bike but at least he made a cracking good video of the shops inventory and name.
 
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