I don't agree 100% with any reviews.
Avinox launch 1500w M2S motor and cheaper M2 motor
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
Highland Wheels
Well-known member
Swap the speed sensor as well. Sures it's only like 25GBP
BadgerHun7er
Member
If the output is a continuous 1500w does that mean its not classed as a ebike but a moped? I ran into this issue recently when claiming for a levo3, all the data online said power rating was around 550w but when you look at the small print, to be inline with UK regulation the max sustained power output is restricted to 250W. If Amflow are not doing the same then insurance for most people will be invalid. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi...sC-p-hvnezUmLS1Dk8_aem_IPRoJ1zoVtNGXW7mSetFBg
dadeadduck
New Member
Getting hold of the motor seems the hard part.
Hey I always take new releases with some skepsis and that's is exactly what was boggling my mind yesterday.
In the conversation with @Zimmerframe on the Atherton thread way back in January I initially suspected that they would use the 46... type cylindrical cells, butt dismissed the idea because the length of 10 most common 4680 cells(Tesla developed) in series would be 80cm which is to much for a downtube of cca 60cm length.
Now that's exactly what didn't/doesn't add up with some of the review channels information(probably false) circulating about their new FP700 battery pack using ten(10 piece needed for 36V of system voltage) 4680 cells.
The length of the new FP700 is suposedly cca 56cm(specs), @Rob Rides EMTB can you maybe confirm that?
10x 4680 = 36V (Voltage OK)
Length of stacked cells cca 80cm(doesnt addup with the FP700 spec mentioned 56cm).
Now there is no commercially available 4650 cells, so the only way to do a pack like this is as some chanels did say specifically developed for this use case.
Now are they revolutionary as cells? IMO not really, the form factor already exists, the technology exists, the only thing new is most probably the chemistry as with all cylindrical cells(more further).
Is the use of bigger cells in this form for ebikes revolutionary?
Well maybe...higer stsble dischrge currents possible for longer, but to the expense of what? If you go watch the whole Velomotion's thermal stability test, the motor itself reached temps of 120°C, judge for your self.
Maybe not...it's only a marginal energy density gain and weight.
The best 4680 cells have a capacity of cca 95Wh tops. Divide that to the 8cm of length of the cell we get 11,875Wh/cm.
The specificlly developed 4650 cell- 5cm x 11,875Wh=60Wh.
10 used cells x 60Wh = 600Wh.
So the new cells have a new chemistry that has cca 17% more energy density(60Wh+17%=70Wh). That gets us to 700Wh of the FP700 pack.
Is that 17% possible, yes and it's not revolutionary.
Example: The old 21700 cell used by Amflow packs is cca 5,55Ah, the new high energy density 21700 cells are 6,5Ah.
5,55Ah + 17% = cca 6,5Ah
The tech is/was already here, it's the way DJI used it and the will to do it that deserves a thumbs up
.
rabitec
New Member
The length of the FP700 battery pack was published by Avinox on their website as 558.5Hey I always take new releases with some skepsis and that's is exactly what was boggling my mind yesterday.
In the conversation with @Zimmerframe on the Atherton thread way back in January I initially suspected that they would use the 46... type cylindrical cells, butt dismissed the idea because the length of 10 most common 4680 cells(Tesla developed) in series would be 80cm which is to much for a downtube of cca 60cm length.
Now that's exactly what didn't/doesn't add up with some of the review channels information(probably false) circulating about their new FP700 battery pack using ten(10 piece needed for 36V of system voltage) 4680 cells.
The length of the new FP700 is suposedly cca 56cm(specs), @Rob Rides EMTB can you maybe confirm that?
10x 4680 = 36V (Voltage OK)
Length of stacked cells cca 80cm(doesnt addup with the FP700 spec mentioned 56cm).
Now there is no commercially available 4650 cells, so the only way to do a pack like this is as some chanels did say specifically developed for this use case.
Now are they revolutionary as cells? IMO not really, the form factor already exists, the technology exists, the only thing new is most probably the chemistry as with all cylindrical cells(more further).
Is the use of bigger cells in this form for ebikes revolutionary?
Well maybe...higer stsble dischrge currents possible for longer, but to the expense of what? If you go watch the whole Velomotion's thermal stability test, the motor itself reached temps of 120°C, judge for your self.
Maybe not...it's only a marginal energy density gain and weight.
The best 4680 cells have a capacity of cca 95Wh tops. Divide that to the 8cm of length of the cell we get 11,875Wh/cm.
The specificlly developed 4650 cell- 5cm x 11,875Wh=60Wh.
10 used cells x 60Wh = 600Wh.
So the new cells have a new chemistry that has cca 17% more energy density(60Wh+17%=70Wh). That gets us to 700Wh of the FP700 pack.
Is that 17% possible, yes and it's not revolutionary.
Example: The old 21700 cell used by Amflow packs is cca 5,55Ah, the new high energy density 21700 cells are 6,5Ah.
5,55Ah + 17% = cca 6,5Ah
The tech is/was already here, it's the way DJI used it and the will to do it that deserves a thumbs up
interestingly this is a tad too short for 7x4680 modules but let's assume they can cram 7 of them.
These guys claim 97Wh nominal per module:
3.6V 27Ah 97Wh INR4680 Lithium cylindrical battery cell
3.6V 27Ah 97Wh INR4680-270B Lithium cylindrical battery cell with 4C rate
www.evlithium.com
7*97 seems right on the money for the 700Wh FP700 but it does not make sense from the nominal voltage of 36.1V PoV
So I am puzzled and fascinated by the mistery
I was hoping they might release a faster charger for their older 600 and 800 Wh integrated packs, because I don't want to wait 2h for a charge. But after some digging around it seems those packs use LG M58T cells, which are fairly high capacity (~5.8 Ah) but have a charging limit (in 10s4p configuration) very close to the 12 amps used in the Avinox "fast" charger. If they had used, for example, Molicel P50B, the pack could theoretically charge at 100 amps, or more realistically, 20-40 amps, giving a full charge in under an hour (lunch break) - but with about 10% less capacity.Hey I always take new releases with some skepsis and that's is exactly what was boggling my mind yesterday.
In the conversation with @Zimmerframe on the Atherton thread way back in January I initially suspected that they would use the 46... type cylindrical cells, butt dismissed the idea because the length of 10 most common 4680 cells(Tesla developed) in series would be 80cm which is to much for a downtube of cca 60cm length.
Now that's exactly what didn't/doesn't add up with some of the review channels information(probably false) circulating about their new FP700 battery pack using ten(10 piece needed for 36V of system voltage) 4680 cells.
The length of the new FP700 is suposedly cca 56cm(specs), @Rob Rides EMTB can you maybe confirm that?
10x 4680 = 36V (Voltage OK)
Length of stacked cells cca 80cm(doesnt addup with the FP700 spec mentioned 56cm).
Now there is no commercially available 4650 cells, so the only way to do a pack like this is as some chanels did say specifically developed for this use case.
Now are they revolutionary as cells? IMO not really, the form factor already exists, the technology exists, the only thing new is most probably the chemistry as with all cylindrical cells(more further).
Is the use of bigger cells in this form for ebikes revolutionary?
Well maybe...higer stsble dischrge currents possible for longer, but to the expense of what? If you go watch the whole Velomotion's thermal stability test, the motor itself reached temps of 120°C, judge for your self.
Maybe not...it's only a marginal energy density gain and weight.
The best 4680 cells have a capacity of cca 95Wh tops. Divide that to the 8cm of length of the cell we get 11,875Wh/cm.
The specificlly developed 4650 cell- 5cm x 11,875Wh=60Wh.
10 used cells x 60Wh = 600Wh.
So the new cells have a new chemistry that has cca 17% more energy density(60Wh+17%=70Wh). That gets us to 700Wh of the FP700 pack.
Is that 17% possible, yes and it's not revolutionary.
Example: The old 21700 cell used by Amflow packs is cca 5,55Ah, the new high energy density 21700 cells are 6,5Ah.
5,55Ah + 17% = cca 6,5Ah
The tech is/was already here, it's the way DJI used it and the will to do it that deserves a thumbs up
Does anyone know what cells are used in the new removable batteries?
- Thread starter
- #158
My understanding is that it is a new LG Cell, custom 70wh cells
@emtbeast
Maybe you can tell what what is going on from all of this ???
Please !
Specs from Avinox Spares (Accessories)
FP700 Battery : NEW
558.5×59.1×56.1mm - 700Wh - 36.1V
3.18KG
Form: 10S
RS800 Battery : NCM Lithium
434.5×71.8×69mm - 800Wh - 35.9V
4Kg
? Form: Looks odddly triangular ! 3P ?
RS600 Battery - Amflow listing has disappeared ! Other Sources Online
2.96Kg
? Form: Looks oddly rectangular ! 2P ?
Original
FS800 Battery : NCM ?
Dims ? 800Wh - 35.9 V
3.74 kg
? Form: 10S4P ?
FS600 Battery : NCM ?
Dims ? 600Wh - 35.9 V
2.87 kg
? Form: 10S3P ?
Maybe you can tell what what is going on from all of this ???
Please !
Specs from Avinox Spares (Accessories)
FP700 Battery : NEW
558.5×59.1×56.1mm - 700Wh - 36.1V
3.18KG
Form: 10S
RS800 Battery : NCM Lithium
434.5×71.8×69mm - 800Wh - 35.9V
4Kg
? Form: Looks odddly triangular ! 3P ?
RS600 Battery - Amflow listing has disappeared ! Other Sources Online
2.96Kg
? Form: Looks oddly rectangular ! 2P ?
Original
FS800 Battery : NCM ?
Dims ? 800Wh - 35.9 V
3.74 kg
? Form: 10S4P ?
FS600 Battery : NCM ?
Dims ? 600Wh - 35.9 V
2.87 kg
? Form: 10S3P ?
It’s interesting how few bikes so far utilize the 700Wh battery.
slickrock
Well-known member
I think this graph more than anything else I've seen this early on is perhaps the most important. The M2S turns out to be substantially different than the M1 in sustaining power, and as a byproduct more efficient as well. It's interesting that the M2 hangs with the M2S but then gives up the ghost midway. I wonder if this is a nerfing of sorts or there's enough of an internal design difference to warrant this decay suddenly.
Last edited:
Read somewhere there were delays bringing it to market. Whether that's true or not, I would for sure prefer the 700wh with less weight and less prominent down tube over the 800wh.
Hopefully some other manufactures have already got something underway. Perhaps Rob can confirm.
Wojtek
New Member
- Mar 13, 2026
- 95
- 89
PR was supposed to hit EU bike shops mid april. Last time i heard was delayed until end april ...
Would love PX but charging is an issue for my lifestyle. Non removeable battery kills flexibility in many scenarios for me.
Off.road.cc
The Avinox M2 is here! 18 e-moutnain(sic) bike we know that come with Avinox's newest motors
Plus they are saying 60 bike brands in total set to announce M2/M2S bikes
"Avinox may have just caused the biggest bike launch we've ever seen with 60 brands unveiling new Avinox-equipped machines."
Wonder how long before a BIG brand decides to add an Avinox offering ...
The Avinox M2 is here! 18 e-moutnain(sic) bike we know that come with Avinox's newest motors
Plus they are saying 60 bike brands in total set to announce M2/M2S bikes
"Avinox may have just caused the biggest bike launch we've ever seen with 60 brands unveiling new Avinox-equipped machines."
Wonder how long before a BIG brand decides to add an Avinox offering ...
Avinox Battery Comparison
FP700 (700Wh) 19,4Ah
- Capacity: 700 Wh
- Weight: ~3.18 kg
- Mounting: Fixed
- Dimensions: 558.5 × 59.1 × 56.1 mm
- Voltage: 36.1 V
- Cell configuration: 10S
- Cell type: Custom 4650 (large-format)
- Estimated cells: ~10 (large cells)
- Energy density: ~220 Wh/kg
FS600 (600Wh) 16,7Ah
- Capacity: 600 Wh
- Weight: ~2.87 kg
- Mounting: Fixed
- Dimensions: 434.5 × 72.6 × 50.2 mm
- Voltage: 35.9 V
- Cell configuration: 10S3P
- Cell type: 21700 cylindrical
- Estimated cells: ~30
- Energy density: ~209 Wh/kg
RS600 (600Wh) 16,7Ah
- Capacity: 600 Wh
- Weight: ~2.96 kg
- Mounting: Removable
- Dimensions: 434.5 × 72.6 × 50.2 mm
- Voltage: 35.9 V
- Cell configuration: 10S3P
- Cell type: 21700 cylindrical
- Estimated cells: ~30
- Energy density: ~202 Wh/kg
FS800 (800Wh) 22,3Ah
- Capacity: 800 Wh
- Weight: ~3.74 kg
- Mounting: Fixed
- Dimensions: 560.4 × 71.5 × 49.1 mm
- Voltage: 35.9 V
- Cell configuration: 10S4P
- Cell type: 21700 cylindrical
- Estimated cells: ~40
- Energy density: ~214 Wh/kg
RS800 (800Wh) 22,0Ah
- Capacity: 800 Wh
- Weight: ~4.0 kg
- Mounting: Removable
- Dimensions: 434.5 × 71.8 × 69 mm
- Voltage: 35.9 V
- Cell configuration: 10S4P
- Cell type: 21700 cylindrical
- Estimated cells: ~40
- Energy density: ~200 Wh/kg
In the picture a comparison of 18650, 21700 and 4680.
The 4650 would be 3cm shorter than the shown 4680.
All the other packs use the 21700 cells.
The new removable packs most probably use newer versions of the 21700 cells that has a higer discharge current limit(New chemistry) as these packs are allowing a higher peak motor power output of 1500W.
But as the old ones they still have the same capacity that is cca 5,6Ah.
The 600Wh(fixed and removable) packs are by dimensions basically identical apart the connector that is different. Internal stack is probably 6 rows x 5 cells.
The 800Wh packs only have a different internal layout of cells stacking.
Old fixed one has 6 rows x 7 cells(one row only 5 as we need only 40 total).
New 800Wh removable pack trapezoidal shape has a similar stack as the 600Wh packs in the lower rectangular part because it's also of the same length as the 600Wh but to reach 40 cells needed it adds another 2 rows on top(trapezoidal shape), so basically 8 rows x 5 cells. The form factor of the removable 800Wh pack is nice because it's short, it moves the center of gravity lower.
Interesting, this is significantly shorter than the old 800WH while slightly heavier. I think I would prefer this as it removes some weight at the top of the downtube. Hope Amflow/Avinox continues having these options as id rather have a thin downtube that handles very good then a super thin that handles good
Northman57
Member
what do you mean with "BIG brand"? Bigger than Mondraker, Canyon and Orbea? (all with Avinox)
I was thinking Giant, Trek, Specialized, Cube.
But, you are right Canyon and Orbea are big according to reports.
What Orbea uses Avinox?
Efficiency is approximately 2% higher - which whilst that's outstanding, with the higher average outputs means you get about the same km/wh as with the m1 generation (based on reviews and experience so far).
Northman57
Member
Soon the be announced, according to many rumours
Oh you made it sound like it was already reality.
What message are you suggesting we read into that?
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
most frames probably initially were designed for the m1 system and the old batteries
Saw this. But nothing on the canyon sites…
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