Crestline x DJI - RS 181 SPECTRE Edition

Testing a fresh Avinox motor to see the rattle difference. The original (rattle monster) is noticeably easier to turn the chainring backwards. It’s also easier to make it rattle by moving chainring back and forth by hand.

The fresh Avinox motor that I borrowed from my new loan Amflow bike is noticeably stiffer to move the chainring back.

I suspect that its gear mesh inside is much tighter. I also reckon that over the limit it might be a bit more draggy.

Going for a ride to listen to how much quieter it is.

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Rob Rides EMTB said:
Testing a fresh Avinox motor to see the rattle difference. The original (rattle monster) is noticeable easier to turn the chainring backwards. It’s also easier to make it rattle by moving chainring back and forth by hand.

The fresh Avinox motor that I borrowed from my new loan Amflow bike is noticeably stiffer to move the chainring back.

I suspect that its gear mesh inside is much tighter. I also reckon that over the limit it might be a bit more draggy.

Going for a ride to listen to how much quieter it is.
Click to expand...
Is there a noticeable difference in pedaling/crank resistance rotating forward or backward between the two when powered off?
 
Rob Rides EMTB said:
Testing a fresh Avinox motor to see the rattle difference. The original (rattle monster) is noticeable easier to turn the chainring backwards. It’s also easier to make it rattle by moving chainring back and forth by hand.

The fresh Avinox motor that I borrowed from my new loan Amflow bike is noticeably stiffer to move the chainring back.

I suspect that its gear mesh inside is much tighter. I also reckon that over the limit it might be a bit more draggy.
Click to expand...
Mine back spins extremely easily, no drag whatsoever. Bumping the cranks forward with the bike in a stand I can hear the gears mesh/clank together.
 
AlumiPro said:
Mine back spins extremely easily, no drag whatsoever. Bumping the cranks forward with the bike in a stand I can hear the gears mesh/clank together.
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Back spin on the cranks is very free. But rotating the chain ring back is very stiff
 
Hey @Rob Rides EMTB, I'm wondering if you've spoken with Troyden/Crestline or Avinox on this issue? Seems like something they'd want to resolve or at least have a statement on.

MBR mention that Avinox identified a fix and put new motors into demo bikes, however, it seems like the newer "Avinox" labelled motors still have the rattle (not all, but some).

... in July they received feedback about the motor rattle when coasting. By September they had found a fix, made a new batch of motors, and fitted them to the demo bikes.

Original article
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I (parking lot) test rode an Amflow PL and an Amflow PL Pro, the Pro rattled whereas the PL did not (bunny hopping around and off some curbs etc.), so it seems like a bit of a lottery to what you will get. I was dead set on buying the Pro but decided to wait for the 2026 models to arrive as I want the updated fork, this motor issue is making me wonder if I should wait a bit longer.

This will be my first emtb, been riding 30+ years and I like quiet bikes, hence my concern. I think if you have history with emtb the rattle seems more accepted i.e. they're not as bad as they used to be!
 
Anyone here have a Spectre and an Amflow? Curious if batteries for both are exactly same with same mounting points.
 
Want me to video or test anything on my Amflow?

It's an 'earlier' non-pro PL (with DJI branding on stuff) and as far as I can tell, rattle free (or less - put it this way, it's never ever bothered me or struck me as a bike that rattles.)
 
Plyphon said:
Want me to video or test anything on my Amflow?

It's an 'earlier' non-pro PL (with DJI branding on stuff) and as far as I can tell, rattle free (or less - put it this way, it's never ever bothered me or struck me as a bike that rattles.)
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couldn't hurt to record. I guess what most folks are frustrated with is there is no clear answer why the rattle on the avinox motors is all over the spectrum. Only one clear fact is if your chainring is very resistant to moving backwards there is less rattle.
 
I was told by Troydon that motors with the most resistant chainring should be the latest motor. The frustrating part is that there are inconsistency with the motors and noise in the wild
 
I know at least a couple of you have owned Gen5 Crestlines, maybe even with the recent software updates.

Sure, would like to hear an unbiased review comparing the 2 motor systems or anything else that is relevant. Ride quality, efficiency, noise, etc.
 
The rattle is occuring across all brands, even thier own Amflow. It is a bummer, I wonder if Avinox would warranty the rattling motors?
 
Suns_PSD said:
I know at least a couple of you have owned Gen5 Crestlines, maybe even with the recent software updates.

Sure, would like to hear an unbiased review comparing the 2 motor systems or anything else that is relevant. Ride quality, efficiency, noise, etc.
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I'll give my impressions later today. I've had both and the gen5 crestline was my very first ebike.
 
The only motor I have ridden that did not rattle was the Brose 2.2 motor on the Gen 3 Levo's. It sounded terrible on the climbs though which was a wash for me. If using the Bosch Gen 4 Race as a bench mark, I would say the Bosch Gen 4 Race is a 10/10 in loudness, the Avinox 5/10 in loudness and the Bosch Gen 5 2.5/10 in loudness.

Bosch Gen 5 pluses: Proven reliability, more refined tuning, and least amount of rattle. Ability to add a range extender.

Avinox pluses: Company that will inovate faster than the rest. Slim profile so bike builders have more freedom with frame design. Bikes look awesome and sleek. So far so good with the reliabilty.
 
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GeorgesEBike said:
The only motor I have ridden that did not rattle was the Brose 2.2 motor on the Gen 3 Levo's. It sounded terrible on the climbs though which was a wash for me. If using the Bosch Gen 4 Race as a bench mark, I would say the Bosch Gen 4 Race is a 10/10 in loudness, the Avinox 5/10 in loudness and the Bosch Gen 5 2.5/10 in loudness.

Bosch Gen 5 pluses: Proven reliability, more refined tuning. and least amount of rattle. Ability to add a range extender.

Avinox pluses: Company that will inovate faster than the rest. Slim profile so bike builders have more freedom with frame design. Bikes look awesome and sleek. So far so good with the reliabilty.
Click to expand...

Which underscores the variance in the Avinox motors. PB had the early Avinox's louder than the Gen4 Bosch in their e-bike motor review (that was written right before the Gen5 was released).
 
Suns_PSD said:
Which underscores the variance in the Avinox motors. PB had the early Avinox's louder than the Gen4 Bosch in their e-bike motor review (that was written right before the Gen5 was released).
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I do think the DJI Avinox labeled motors do rattle as loud as the Bosch Gen 4 Race. The newer Avinox labeled motors should rattle about 1/2 as loud. I would be upset with the rattle on the DJI/Avinox motor. The rattle on my Avinox motor is acceptable and doesn't really bother me.
 
mrtrinh said:
couldn't hurt to record. I guess what most folks are frustrated with is there is no clear answer why the rattle on the avinox motors is all over the spectrum. Only one clear fact is if your chainring is very resistant to moving backwards there is less rattle.
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I just went to look quickly out of curiosity - I didn't record - but my chainring is very stiff to move backwards. I bounced the bike on both wheels and the rear only - whilst there is 'knocking' or thudding I wouldn't (personally) call it a rattle - and it might be coming from the wheels/shock/etc anyway.
 
Suns_PSD said:
I know at least a couple of you have owned Gen5 Crestlines, maybe even with the recent software updates.

Sure, would like to hear an unbiased review comparing the 2 motor systems or anything else that is relevant. Ride quality, efficiency, noise, etc.
Click to expand...
I'll start with the premise that I had almost the exact same parts on both bikes with the exception of the rear hub. bosch had a hydra hub and the DJI has the sidekick hub. I was anticipating the rattle and had hoped the sidekick hub would alleviate it.

Bosch Gen5:
  • Motor: Quiet. Absolutely no rattle. Get's loud when in turbo but not as loud the DJI. There was more than sufficient power before the update. Power feels more natural than DJI. People who do technical climbs would enjoy the bosch.
  • weight: 51lbs
  • ride quality: playful and feels very balanced. I wasn't appreciative of the lower weight of the battery until riding the DJI. Suspension feels the same to me compared to DJI
  • battery: 600w
  • frame: bulky looking. seat insertion is lacking.
  • software: minimal and simple to use. If you're a guy that likes to tinker with software there aren't many options.
Avinox:
  • Motor: Quiet when climbing and starts to get loud when in turbo. There is rattle in chatter and through the chunk. It doesn't really bother me as my push fork is quite loud and kind of drowns it out. Power on tap is insane. I really had to turn down the motor to get it to my liking. Almost as natural feeling as the bosch but i still give the edge to bosch. I ride mainly fire roads going up so this isn't an issue for me.
  • weight: 50lbs
  • ride quality: The longer battery does pitch the bike more forward. Helps with front end grip, but if you prefer to do a lot of jumps this bike will be harder to jump. If you're more of a bulldozer where you're not really hucking or jumping this shouldn't be a problem for you. Suspension feels the same as the crestline. I got pretty accustomed to how the bike handles within a couple rides.
  • battery: 800w
  • frame: one of the best looking frames on the market. insertion is lacking but better. almost able to slam a 175mm axs dropper in a RH-2. I do like the higher stack and went with the same chainstays as the bosch (445).
  • Software: Pretty amazing what you can do with it. customization seems endless.
 
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mrtrinh said:
I'll start with the premise that I had almost the exact same parts on both bikes with the exception of the rear hub. bosch had a hydra hub and the DJI has the sidekick hub. I was anticipating the rattle and had hoped the sidekick hub would alleviate it.

Bosch Gen5:
  • Motor: Quiet. Absolutely no rattle. Get's loud when in turbo but not as loud the DJI. There was more than sufficient power before the update. Power feels more natural than DJI. People who do technical climbs would enjoy the bosch.
  • weight: 51lbs
  • ride quality: playful and feels very balanced. I wasn't appreciative of the lower weight of the battery until riding the DJI. Suspension feels the same to me compared to DJI
  • battery: 600w
  • frame: bulky looking. seat insertion is lacking.
  • software: minimal and simple to use. If you're a guy that likes to tinker with software there aren't many options.
Avinox:
  • Motor: Quiet when climbing and starts to get loud when in turbo. There is rattle in chatter and through the chunk. It doesn't really bother me as my push fork is quite loud and kind of drowns it out. Power on tap is insane. I really had to turn down the motor to get it to my liking. Almost as natural feeling as the bosch but i still give the edge to bosch. I ride mainly fire roads going up so this isn't an issue for me.
  • weight: 50lbs
  • ride quality: The longer battery does pitch the bike more forward. Helps with front end grip, but if you prefer to do a lot of jumps this bike will be harder to jump. If you're more of a bulldozer where you're not really hucking or jumping this shouldn't be a problem for you. Suspension feels the same as the crestline. I got pretty accustomed to how the bike handles within a couple rides.
  • battery: 800w
  • frame: one of the best looking frames on the market. insertion is lacking but better. almost able to slam a 175mm axs dropper in a RH-2. I do like the higher stack and went with the same chainstays as the bosch (445).
  • Software: Pretty amazing what you can do with it. customization seems endless.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty amazing comparison. It's also impressive that the Avinox with the 800w battery is still 1# lighter than the Bosch with a 600w. Crestline must have saved a lot of weight with the more narrow downtube. It is interesting that even being a lighter overall bike, that weight placement really matters. Sounds like you got a mostly quiet example of the Avinox.

Can you comment accurately on range or efficiency?

Thanks!
 
Suns_PSD said:
That's a pretty amazing comparison. It's also impressive that the Avinox with the 800w battery is still 1# lighter than the Bosch with a 600w. Crestline must have saved a lot of weight with the more narrow downtube. It is interesting that even being a lighter overall bike, that weight placement really matters. Sounds like you got a mostly quiet example of the Avinox.

Can you comment accurately on range or efficiency?

Thanks!
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I dont know if it would be considered quiet, but then again the gen5 is my bench mark.

Once you ride and hear the rattle and you go back and listen to all the YouTube reviewers pov, you can distinguish the rattle sound.

Ill get a video up in a week or so once I get a new fork on. Hoping an air fork will help with the weighted front.

Difficult to comment on range and efficiency (600 vs 800 on different motors). Im also not the type of rider who goes on long adventure rides. I bought an ebike to reduce time and fatigue. Im in it for the downhills.
 
Removing the noise and the center of gravity thing (both pretty large issues) from the equation, I've brought up efficiency several times, but if the 800w Spectre Crestline weighs LESS than the 600w Gen5 Crestline, who cares if the DJI is less efficient!

Does the motor guard function as a full bash guard with the 36T front chain ring?
 
Suns_PSD said:
Does the motor guard function as a full bash guard with the 36T front chain ring?
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I have made contact with my chain on my 36T chainring. It wasn’t enough contact to damage the chain or cause any link binding as the chain rotates through. Chain/chainring contact on lava boulders makes a noticeable different sound than a plastic motor guard……I definitely made chain contact!
I’ve also made contact while crossing over downed trees, but plastic and metal make about the same sound when sliding over wood, so I wasn’t positive what all made contact at that time.
My extra backup motor guard arrived yesterday from Crestline.
I also would definitely NOT want a smaller chainring, due to gearing with 28mph limit. With the 36T I find I can push past 28mph.
 
AlumiPro said:
I also have the “newer” AVINOX cover and SideKick hub and have rattle. BUT as I stated; the rattling was definitely reduced when I turned OFF the Freehub Pre-Engagement and Quick Start settings. I’m sure the Freehub Pre-Engagement setting was the main cause for obvious reasons with a VPP platform.
I have my SideKick set in the middle (I believe 13deg) As the 18deg I felt was too much float for technical rock shelf climbing.

View attachment 166679
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This helped my rattle a little bit. I have the Avinox branded motor, and have tried to combat sounds from the bike since day 1. Sidekick didn't help and I was wondering why until I saw your post. I turned off the freehub preengagement and to my surprise I believe I made a difference. I didn't even know it was on until I had a look through all the settings.
Quick start was already off.
I still have a bit of a rattle, but I guess it's just becasue I am very papered by being used to a TQ motor.

The bike is 3.5kg heavier than my fuel exe (amflow is @22KG) , so I am also trying to come to terms with the weight and I am still on the fence about having such a heavy bike, since it really does negatively affect handling and just general fun a lot more than I thought it would.
Especially with jumps without a great takeoff is so much harder to get real air.
 
The Spectre is dope, but sometimes once the initial excitement of a bike wears off, you start to hear about a few negatives. It's good to hear these opinions and experiences and doesn't diminish the bike at all.
 
I was surprised when my SPECTRE weight came in exactly same as my Spesh Turbo Levo with Push coil shock. Couple pounds reduction, with the shorter 600Wh battery, especially from front of the bike, I think will make significant improvement to feel and playfulness.
 
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GeorgesEBike said:
The only motor I have ridden that did not rattle was the Brose 2.2 motor on the Gen 3 Levo's. It sounded terrible on the climbs though which was a wash for me. If using the Bosch Gen 4 Race as a bench mark, I would say the Bosch Gen 4 Race is a 10/10 in loudness, the Avinox 5/10 in loudness and the Bosch Gen 5 2.5/10 in loudness.

Bosch Gen 5 pluses: Proven reliability, more refined tuning, and least amount of rattle. Ability to add a range extender.

Avinox pluses: Company that will inovate faster than the rest. Slim profile so bike builders have more freedom with frame design. Bikes look awesome and sleek. So far so good with the reliabilty.
Click to expand...
I guess they all have variances. My G4 Bosch CX Race doesn’t rattle. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Suns_PSD said:
The Spectre is dope, but sometimes once the initial excitement of a bike wears off, you start to hear about a few negatives. It's good to hear these opinions and experiences and doesn't diminish the bike at all.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the Amflow thing is wearing off.. Now we're hearing about rattles, battery weight placement,,175mm post insertion limit, VPP being shunned by all the big player!. My opinion... wait a few years while they perfect this new breed of motors with the right frame and support to keep it on the dirt, not the shop.
 
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