ThrottleAbuse
Member
The concept should make for a great ride on the Rail with its suspension design. Benefit of a coil ride but adding air spring for a more progressive ratio.
Trek rail rear shock upgrade ideas please
- Thread starter Dano78
- Start date
(2022 Trek Rail Alloy Large). With an Ohlins TTX22m.2 coil shock the largest bottle I can carry is 600ml and had to modify a bottle carrier to as high in the frame as possible to prevent the top of the shock hitting the bottom of the bottle.
Ohlins TTX22M.2 coil shock
First ride yesterday on my 2022 Trek Rail (Alloy, Large) with Ohlins TTX22M.2 with 525lb spring. Thanks TF Tuned! Am 79-80kg Rail has Rockshox Pike Ultimate 150mm forks moved over from my Trek Fuel EX (ML) upgraded to 160mm C1 Air spring for the Rail. The Ohlins shock replaced the stock...www.emtbforums.com
Same with Rail 7 gen3 XL and EXT e-Storia. But Rail with e-Storia is super good!
From your experience with both coil shocks how does the E-Estoria compare with the Ohlins TTX22m.2?
My Deluxe select+ need service but it`s 4 years old and I think it`s better upgrade. Ideas? Trek rail 7 2020 aluminium size L fork rs yari (motioncontroll need replacement too). Air shock is ok I just ride trails with rock gardens no DH sessions. Price should be less than 400€, dvo topaz 2(if it fit?), fox dpx2 performance or rs deluxe ultimate...
Zed. (Justin is short)
Well-known member
I've been running a Manitou Mara (230x65) for a few months on my Medium rail5 and found it exellent, we have a few other dampers in stock...
Manitou Mara, Fox float x2 evol taken from My Mrs's S-works kenevo sl and an Ohlins Ttx air - all in 230x65.
curiosity (& mrs demanding my opinion of the Fox damper
) and trial-fit on the rail..
it fits in it's extended state (actually clears the seatpost.
but, clashes with the frame on compression (not full stroke of 65mm BUT the standard rail stroke is 57mm I believe
) so didn't test-ride
so fitted the Ohlins and gave it a shakedown Saturday & Sunday @ Bpw
I'm ~110kg so no lightwieght!
same ~20%sag as riding red tech trails with some attempts at smaller jumps (white men can't jump?)
Manitou Mara 170psi
Ohlins 245psi
the Mara follows Manitou's low operating working pressure (I have Manitou Mezzer forks and run between 60psi & 70psi in the main & negative spring chambers depending on how I'm feeling!
whereas the standard-fit Rockshox forks needed a lot more - Rockshox rear damper needed over 350psi in its airspring to not constantly bottom-out
)
both similar compression & rebound settings (basically open)
so, what do I think?
both the Manitou & Ohlins are good, similar support from their airsprings but I seemed to use slightly more travel on the Ohlins
damping wise I found them as good as each other
I'll probably keep the Ohlins on the bike a little longer for a better appraisal but want the mara back as it just felt that little bit more comfortable
Rich.
Manitou Mara, Fox float x2 evol taken from My Mrs's S-works kenevo sl and an Ohlins Ttx air - all in 230x65.
curiosity (& mrs demanding my opinion of the Fox damper
) and trial-fit on the rail..
it fits in it's extended state (actually clears the seatpost.
but, clashes with the frame on compression (not full stroke of 65mm BUT the standard rail stroke is 57mm I believe
) so didn't test-ride
so fitted the Ohlins and gave it a shakedown Saturday & Sunday @ Bpw
I'm ~110kg so no lightwieght!
same ~20%sag as riding red tech trails with some attempts at smaller jumps (white men can't jump?)
Manitou Mara 170psi
Ohlins 245psi
the Mara follows Manitou's low operating working pressure (I have Manitou Mezzer forks and run between 60psi & 70psi in the main & negative spring chambers depending on how I'm feeling!
whereas the standard-fit Rockshox forks needed a lot more - Rockshox rear damper needed over 350psi in its airspring to not constantly bottom-out
)both similar compression & rebound settings (basically open)
so, what do I think?
both the Manitou & Ohlins are good, similar support from their airsprings but I seemed to use slightly more travel on the Ohlins
damping wise I found them as good as each otherI'll probably keep the Ohlins on the bike a little longer for a better appraisal but want the mara back as it just felt that little bit more comfortable
Rich.
Last edited:
I know it's an old post but sooo glad i read this. I've just been shitting it that it won't fit, so thought i'd scroll back. Just got to swap the spacers over. Cheers for the obvious and life saving answer will post a pic once I get it on
I've been running a Manitou Mara (230x65) for a few months on my Medium rail5 and found it exellent, we have a few other dampers in stock...
Manitou Mara, Fox float x2 evol taken from My Mrs's S-works kenevo sl and an Ohlins Ttx air - all in 230x65.
curiosity (& mrs demanding my opinion of the Fox damper
it fits in it's extended state (actually clears the seatpost.
but, clashes with the frame on compression (not full stroke of 65mm BUT the standard rail stroke is 57mm I believe
so fitted the Ohlins and gave it a shakedown Saturday & Sunday @ Bpw
I'm ~110kg so no lightwieght!
same ~20%sag as riding red tech trails with some attempts at smaller jumps (white men can't jump?)
Manitou Mara 170psi
Ohlins 245psi
the Mara follows Manitou's low operating working pressure (I have Manitou Mezzer forks and run between 60psi & 70psi in the main & negative spring chambers depending on how I'm feeling!
whereas the standard-fit Rockshox forks needed a lot more - Rockshox rear damper needed over 350psi in its airspring to not constantly bottom-out
both similar compression & rebound settings (basically open)
so, what do I think?
both the Manitou & Ohlins are good, similar support from their airsprings but I seemed to use slightly more travel on the Ohlins
I'll probably keep the Ohlins on the bike a little longer for a better appraisal but want the mara back as it just felt that little bit more comfortable
Rich.
Is that Ohlins a TTX1 or TTX2?
Zed. (Justin is short)
Well-known member
as Paulquatro says, TTX2
anyway, back on the Mara as its more comfortable
Ohlins springing felt harder (as you'd expect with 75psi higher pressure for same 'sag'') but both have same control
looking for a Mara pro now, think I need to try one
Rich.
I think the progressive rate issue on the Rail suspension is overdone. I ran the stock air shock a little but ended up with the Fox DH-X2 coil shock. It's been awesome. I come from dirt motorcycles and many full suspension MTB's over the years. I've rebuilt the rear shocks on many of them and even tweaked the damping components in some of them when it was necessary and possible.
I ride in very rough terrain, and this issue of the Rail not being ideal for coil rear shocks is exaggerated IMO. Maybe there is an imbalance with an air fork and a coil rear shock for some, and perhaps better balance can be achieved with a coil fork. That's what I did with a Marz Bomber coil fork. Still, so much preference can be applied when we're talking about suspension design, application, and component selection, so I'm not claiming there's a one-size-fits-all here.
I will suggest that perhaps some/many don't know how to tune their extensive options in the compression and rebound circuits in some cases to address some issues that they're blaming on the shock as a whole unit.
I ride in very rough terrain, and this issue of the Rail not being ideal for coil rear shocks is exaggerated IMO. Maybe there is an imbalance with an air fork and a coil rear shock for some, and perhaps better balance can be achieved with a coil fork. That's what I did with a Marz Bomber coil fork. Still, so much preference can be applied when we're talking about suspension design, application, and component selection, so I'm not claiming there's a one-size-fits-all here.
I will suggest that perhaps some/many don't know how to tune their extensive options in the compression and rebound circuits in some cases to address some issues that they're blaming on the shock as a whole unit.
I can confirm this Rockshox Vivid Ultimate fits nicely 230x60. Gen4 Rail 9.8 size L.
Only a few rides in and it feels great. I've had plenty of coil shocks before and this feels very close. It's fantastic having proper compression adjustment and hydraulic bottom out.
Only a few rides in and it feels great. I've had plenty of coil shocks before and this feels very close. It's fantastic having proper compression adjustment and hydraulic bottom out.
Hughesy-p
Member
Suspension math, the rail comes stock with a shock that has 57.5mm of movement and has 150mm of travel.
150/57.5=2.61 suspension ratio.
If you put a 230x65 shock you just
2.61x65= 169.7mm….. if you run a 230x60 shock you will have 156.6mm of travel….high school math comes in handy once again.
150/57.5=2.61 suspension ratio.
If you put a 230x65 shock you just
2.61x65= 169.7mm….. if you run a 230x60 shock you will have 156.6mm of travel….high school math comes in handy once again.
Zed. (Justin is short)
Well-known member
my rail has a 230x65mm rear damper, @17stone I dominate nearly ALL of the extra travel
Rich.
Have a few rides on the Vivid, not done much to it other than set sag, but main thing I've noticed is that I don't bottom out, and the bike feels that little bit calmer at speed in the rough, maybe a little plusher. All in al,. very happy with it so far.
slartibartfast
New Member
I want to upgrade to a DVO Jade X. I have read through this thread, but given the variations on Rails and my lack of experience with upgrading shocks, I want to double check I have this right. Here is the setup I am considering:
2022 Rail 7 alloy, size Large, 625wh battery
Rider weight (fully geared up) is 177lbs which is 80.3kg
TF Tuned suggest adding 5-7kg for ebike weight, but my Rail with a full water bottle is 56lbs/25.4kg, so I added 20lbs/9kg to my rider weight in the spring calculator. The result was 444 in/lbs:
So, I am going to order:
DVO Jade X 230x60
DVO Prorate 425-500 progressive spring
Shock bushing kit for the Trek Rail from Offsetbushing.com
None of the calculators I could find agree with each other, so that's fun. But hopefully a 425-500 progressive spring with give me something plush and supple, but that doesn't bottom easy.
Lost Co - 529
Suspension Lab - 469
S4 Suspension - 461
TF - 444
There are conflicting posts in this thread about hardware. Some seem to say the stock hardware will work with new DU bushings, other posts say the hardware needs to be modified to work. $43 to ensure I have the right hardware seems worth it.
Anything I am missing here?
2022 Rail 7 alloy, size Large, 625wh battery
Rider weight (fully geared up) is 177lbs which is 80.3kg
TF Tuned suggest adding 5-7kg for ebike weight, but my Rail with a full water bottle is 56lbs/25.4kg, so I added 20lbs/9kg to my rider weight in the spring calculator. The result was 444 in/lbs:
So, I am going to order:
DVO Jade X 230x60
DVO Prorate 425-500 progressive spring
Shock bushing kit for the Trek Rail from Offsetbushing.com
None of the calculators I could find agree with each other, so that's fun
. But hopefully a 425-500 progressive spring with give me something plush and supple, but that doesn't bottom easy.Lost Co - 529
Suspension Lab - 469
S4 Suspension - 461
TF - 444
There are conflicting posts in this thread about hardware. Some seem to say the stock hardware will work with new DU bushings, other posts say the hardware needs to be modified to work. $43 to ensure I have the right hardware seems worth it.
Anything I am missing here?
Have January 2022 Trek Rail 5 Large, also weigh about 80kg kitted up with Ohlins TTX22m.2 coil shock and Rockshox Lyrik Ultimate MY23 forks with Trutune eBike insert (no spacers).
Shock from TF Tuned came with the 525lb spring recommended by them. Have also tried a 500lb spring but prefer the slightly stiffer feel of the 525lb spring. Have about 25% sag.
Shock from TF Tuned came with the 525lb spring recommended by them. Have also tried a 500lb spring but prefer the slightly stiffer feel of the 525lb spring. Have about 25% sag.
Last edited:
Update on the RS Vivid Ultimate. 230x60 on 2023 Size Large 9.8.
Long story short, it is awesome and I wish I did it earlier.
I'm actually glad I chose the Vivid over the Coil Super Deluxe I was considering.
When I first installed the Vivid it had one volume spacer and it was really linear. I've had a bunch of coils and it felt very much like a coil. The bike just felt a bit limp and lifeless though. It was really hard to pre jump and pop the bike around on the trial.
When I opened up the shock and added another spacer it transformed the bike. It still feels super plush, it is very well controlled but the bike has got pop, it's more dynamic and fun to ride for me.
I'm running 222psi, my weight is probably in the 77-80kg range kitted.
Long story short, it is awesome and I wish I did it earlier.
I'm actually glad I chose the Vivid over the Coil Super Deluxe I was considering.
When I first installed the Vivid it had one volume spacer and it was really linear. I've had a bunch of coils and it felt very much like a coil. The bike just felt a bit limp and lifeless though. It was really hard to pre jump and pop the bike around on the trial.
When I opened up the shock and added another spacer it transformed the bike. It still feels super plush, it is very well controlled but the bike has got pop, it's more dynamic and fun to ride for me.
I'm running 222psi, my weight is probably in the 77-80kg range kitted.
slartibartfast
New Member
Interesting....so I may be better off with a 500lb spring, or a 475-550lb progressive.
How much sag are you getting with the 525lb spring?
Current fork is a Marzocchi Z1 coil at 170mm. At some point I want to put a Smashpot in the stock Domain, as I did like how stiff the Domain chassis is.
slartibartfast
New Member
Oh, goodness, thanks. I somehow missed that!
But you're talking about DVO Jade X and mine is Ohlins so perhaps they work differently with identical springs? I have no idea if this is or isn't the case, but someone here may know.
slartibartfast
New Member
I chatted with DVO and they suggested the 500 or the 475/575 progressive. I'm leaning towards the progressive
Was looking at the current Rail 9.8 and there seems to be a non-trunnion, non-thru shaft Rockshox SD spec'd. Does anyone know if it has a reduced piggy back size?
I am thinking about grabbing a leftover in 230x62.5 but not sure if it will impact the downtube on my medium Gen 4 carbon frame.
I am thinking about grabbing a leftover in 230x62.5 but not sure if it will impact the downtube on my medium Gen 4 carbon frame.
slartibartfast
New Member
My Jade X just arrived. Before I go and break something, what is the correct way to rotate the shaft so that the rebound knob is in the back?
Hi, I probably asked in a wrong thread, so try to ask here. Does anybody tried to fit Vivid 230x62,5 to previous L-size frame? I have a 2021 625Wh Rail 5 Large size and would like to swap my Fox DPX2 (230x62,5) to Vivid in the same dimension. Thank you in advance and apologize.
There's a huge rear shock and fitment thread on the site here somewhere that answers that, but if I recall from that thread, the coil Vivid, at least, did not fit the aluminum Rails...piggyback contact.
Upgraded rear shock to Öhlins TTX1 Air with 65mm stroke. Frame pivot is in high position and shock fits well. In low position it would probably fit also, but had only few millimeter cap, so better this way. I'm not sure if I'm able to get this bottom out...maybe bike geometry starts to limit full stroke...?
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