TQFreak's Dengfu E55 Build Thread

[TeoElFeo]

Looking to sell my E55 frame(size L, Matt black). I bought the frame for a project I had in mind but as time went on I have dropped the idea and hope that someone might find this interesting. The frame comes with a headset, spare bashguard, rear axle, battery box and a few other small bits. Frame located in Estonia and willing to ship across Europe. I also have fox dpx2 230x60 in case someone's interested. Willing to make a good deal for the whole bundle. If interested please DM

 

[Ksem07]

Looking to sell my E55 frame(size L, Matt black). I bought the frame for a project I had in mind but as time went on I have dropped the idea and hope that someone might find this interesting. The frame comes with a headset, spare bashguard, rear axle, battery box and a few other small bits. Frame located in Estonia and willing to ship across Europe. I also have fox dpx2 230x60 in case someone's interested. Willing to make a good deal for the whole bundle. If interested please DM

View attachment 135990 View attachment 135991

I would've bought it right away from you, unfortunately i already ordered 2 weeks ago.

 

[TeoElFeo]

Yeah, probably should have posted earlier...

 

[powerup]

Which way around do the cable routing headset pieces go? Is this right?

 

[TQFreak]

It looks about right. It looks like they changed the headset design and split the top part on two parts.

 

[powerup]

It looks about right. It looks like they changed the headset design and split the top part on two parts.

I genuinely didn't know the way it went together until I fitted it to the fork. Once I assembled it it was immediately obvious.
Have you done much more with your E55? I think the last time we spoke on FB I had just started my E56. I am not sure why the E55/E56 platform isn't more popular tbh, it's got so much internal volume to create all of the ebike premium mods and features. Dengfu should add an extra £200 to the price and include a 3D printer and soldering iron with it, that way people could create any accessory or mod they want .

 

[powerup]

Great news! Innotrace software was completely bypassed and now you can setup you motor up to crazy 3500W power and 100A current.

Now you can squeeze all the juices out of you Bafang m620

Archon X1 Programming Thread (questions and experiences)

Those settings visable are the only ones able to be edited without the master software. With the master account you can edit more. A member posted a screen shot of the Voltage Settings - set incorrectly for my purpose. The 'Unicorn' icon. It was in a throttle thread - a bored Member had posted...

electricbikereview.com

Have you tested this? I have a suspicion it might not be a good idea. I am genuinely interested to see what happens. With the upgraded controller it may deal with temperature monitoring and rollback much better than the stock controller. What does it do as the temperature increases? I wouldn't even attempt to run that type of current on the stock controller because I have seen pics of enamel melted with far less. How does someone manage to destroy the windings on 60ADC with the stock controller..? Maybe it was someone with zero mechanical sympathy. I wonder if the stock controller even pays attention. Or maybe those people just had a faulty sensor but then you would have thought the controller would throw a code. I have seen some people go WOT at 0rpm in a high gear on steep inclines, maybe with tuning and some common sense you could do 100A . It's really odd that nobody tunes ebikes based around phase resistance. I can understand why stock ebikes wouldn't bother but the enthusiasts seem to just want "more amps". If I made a controller I would insist that something like constant temperature or phase resistance was part of the logic. I am not sure if that's the right term (I don't code). Temperature is SO important because it directly impacts every part of how a battery and motor behaves. You wouldn't ignore ohms law? The consumer grade ebikes are at least 6 years behind every other ehobby. When I heard innotrace was VESC based I was immediately interested but it seems whoever managed the project buggered it. There is a ridiculous amount of innovation in VESC, I wish someone else would bring VESC back to ebikes but this time in its natural form like clean Android and managed properly. If someone did this they could even sell it in a detuned consumer ready "Bosch" like package by simply adding a different interface over the top. Let's all say "I VESC" and maybe someone will make it . Luna cottoned on a while ago but limited it to their "open source" bikes only, nice! Like I said, someone with good spirt should have another attempt at it, this time keep VESC paid and actively involved.

 

[TQFreak]

I have not tested it. I run it at 3000W. But there are people who run it at 3500W. I do not know if they had any issues running it at 3500W.

 

[powerup]

I have not tested it. I run it at 3000W. But there are people who run it at 3500W. I do not know if they had any issues running it at 3500W.

Do you monitor temperatures? Have you ever managed to get the controller to limit the power? If you have how did it do it?

 

[thelostjs]

Do you monitor temperatures? Have you ever managed to get the controller to limit the power? If you have how did it do it?

mr powerup can you please give some advice on a uart controller mod on the m620? wanting a bit more out of my 52v 30amp uart motor. i wondered what would happen if i try to flash the firmware from a 48v unit?

 

[TQFreak]

Do you monitor temperatures? Have you ever managed to get the controller to limit the power? If you have how did it do it?

I do not monitor the temperature. I touched the motor after a half of an hour of riding at maximum speed and it feels quite hot. As far as I know the Innotrace X1 controller monitors the temperature and it limits the power when the motor is too hot. That 3000W power the controller delivers is not 100% duty time. If I pedal it at maximum power it reduces the power in a minute or so for cooling down and it brings the full power back after some time.

 

[powerup]

I do not monitor the temperature. I touched the motor after a half of an hour of riding at maximum speed and it feels quite hot. As far as I know the Innotrace X1 controller monitors the temperature and it limits the power when the motor is too hot. That 3000W power the controller delivers is not 100% duty time. If I pedal it at maximum power it reduces the power in a minute or so for cooling down and it brings the full power back after some time.

Is it crude?

 

[powerup]

mr powerup can you please give some advice on a uart controller mod on the m620? wanting a bit more out of my 52v 30amp uart motor. i wondered what would happen if i try to flash the firmware from a 48v unit?

Just raise the battery voltage, decrease the resistance of the controller shunt or do both. The latter is what most choose. No idea what's different across the firmwares, I have never seen a change log? They should be releasing a 1300W variant of the M620 soon so that might be worth trying to flash. Personally I am waiting for the M630 as I think it will be absolutely solid with a 50% increase in current. The higher efficiency allows you to have high power, more consistency and more range.

 

[Ford Prefect]

Whenever we don't see changelogs for firmware updates, we should be very afraid... but I guess it's nice they get any updates at all!?

What I find most interesting about the m630 vs m620, is not even exactly the Q-factor specifically, but simply the final gear ratio to the chainring: The m620 is geared low like a tractor; loads of power & tops out RPM immediately.

As I contemplate swapping a 52 tooth chainring, in place of the (already largeish) 44 tooth it came with, to get RPM down & spread out the shift points (I usually shift 2 gears at a time; 11-spd 42-to-11 tooth cassette)... I can't help but think that the m620 (& maybe by extension) the m630, would benefit from a bit steeper\harder final gear ratio?

They seem to have plenty of power; let them "stretch their legs" a bit!

 

[frodoTK]

TQfreak
Hello,
this is my first post on this forum.
I know you have been using KINDERNAY for some time.
I know that this company went bankrupt, but their products can still be purchased in various places.
what are your impressions of using it?
Did you need any service parts?
is the service available?


I am interested in buying such a hub for my bike.


will be grateful for your help.

Regards

 

[El Topo]

I am not TQFreak, but I have been in a similar situation, and spoke to a guy that owns a Kindernay. He was trying to source some part for it (another cage, to build a new wheel-set?!), that is how I found him online.
He strongly advised me against buying a Kindernay at this point, but unfortunately, I can't remember the specifics of why he did so. I think he mentioned that most gearboxes leak, and some other stuff, maybe it was about the hydraulic shifting?!

For me the main takeaway was, that a swappable hub shell is useless, if you can't get more hub shells. And if you can't swap the hub to another wheels-set, you can just get a Rohloff instead, that will basically last a lifetime. I also expect (or rather hope...) that we will soon see all manufacturers offer a motor gearbox combo like Pinion MGU.

 

[TQFreak]

TQfreak
Hello,
this is my first post on this forum.
I know you have been using KINDERNAY for some time.
I know that this company went bankrupt, but their products can still be purchased in various places.
what are your impressions of using it?
Did you need any service parts?
is the service available?


I am interested in buying such a hub for my bike.


will be grateful for your help.

Regards

Kindernay VII is amazing except one issue - it leaks oil. And the worst part of it is the oil gets on the rear brake over some time. If not this issue it would be the beat gear hub ever created. It uses regular brake rotors and regular Shimano cogs so changing those parts is not expensive and you have a bunch of options. It has cool hydraulic shifter also. It tolerates my 3000W Innotrace motor controller without issues.

Service parts are cogs (standard Shimano cogs), rear brake rotor (standard 6 bolts brake rotor), oil (I use Red Line D4 ATF oil), hydraulic oil (I use Magura blood)

If there are internal issues I doubt you can find a service to repair it, but I did not see anyone had internal issues with it except the oil leakage.

You do need to have ability to assemble and service the hydraulic shifter also (sometimes those hydraulic shifters may have issues from the factory, the hydraulic lines olives may be damaged (mine were damaged from the factory so I had to replace those myself)).

You can find more details about service here Kindernay maintenance.

I would probably try 3x3 nine hub instead of any other gear hub because of it is maintenance free for life according to the manufacturer (but you can disassemble and maintain it though), it uses grease (so no leaks), it tolerates higher torque than any other gear hub according to manufacturer. In theory you can even swap the wheels with it just like with Kindernay because of the internals are easy to remove from the shell. It uses cable twist shifter though, no nice hydraulic shifters. It is the heaviest hear hub. It also uses proprietary interface for cogs and brake rotors you can purchase only from the gear hub manufacturer and those things are expensive and are limited is sizes.

 

[TQFreak]

My Kindernay VII died today. I did 30 mph in light uphill on my Bafang m620 with 3000W Innotrace controller, everything was fine and then all of a sudden quite loud inconsistent clicking sound with resistance spots. I was thinking something happened with the Bafang m620. But after inspection I realized the source of the issue is the gear hub. I was able to get home, inspected thoroughly and found the rear wheel locks when I rotate it backward. It also can lock rotating forward but if I put enough force it can overcome the resistance spot. Changing gears does not change the behavior.

So if you are planning to put a lot of power on the rear wheel maybe skip Kindernay VII.

I am sure though my gear hub did not experience excessive torque because of I used smallest cog and biggest chainring but it died anyway.

 

[juggernaut]

Whenever we don't see changelogs for firmware updates, we should be very afraid... but I guess it's nice they get any updates at all!?

What I find most interesting about the m630 vs m620, is not even exactly the Q-factor specifically, but simply the final gear ratio to the chainring: The m620 is geared low like a tractor; loads of power & tops out RPM immediately.

As I contemplate swapping a 52 tooth chainring, in place of the (already largeish) 44 tooth it came with, to get RPM down & spread out the shift points (I usually shift 2 gears at a time; 11-spd 42-to-11 tooth cassette)... I can't help but think that the m620 (& maybe by extension) the m630, would benefit from a bit steeper\harder final gear ratio?

They seem to have plenty of power; let them "stretch their legs" a bit!

I’m running a Wolf Tooth 48T chainring on my 1800W M620 bike. I can’t fit any larger due to hitting the chainstays, or use spacers.

 

[TeoElFeo]

Looking to sell my E55 frame(size L, Matt black). I bought the frame for a project I had in mind but as time went on I have dropped the idea and hope that someone might find this interesting. The frame comes with a headset, spare bashguard, rear axle, battery box and a few other small bits. Frame located in Estonia and willing to ship across Europe. I also have fox dpx2 230x60 in case someone's interested. Willing to make a good deal for the whole bundle. If interested please DM

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Installed the headset cups supplied with the frame gradually snugging the headset pressing tool and lightly tapping with a soft plastic hammer around the cups. The parts fit good.

The headset cups top and bottom are the same. Mounting diameter is 56 mm, mounting depth is 7.8 mm.

View attachment 104593

Hi, hoping TQ or anyone else can confirm. Are the upper and lower headset openings ZS56 size. I have ordered a E55 frame, but it is not delivered yet.

 

[TQFreak]

I believe the bores diameters in the frame is 56mm and allow to install cups with up to 7.8 mm tall insertion portion if I said so. The cups and the bearings are the same for top and bottom. The cups flange outside diameter is about 62 mm. I do not know other sizes. The frame should be delivered with the headset parts. If you consider to install other headset you need to search the headset sizes of the parts you want to purchase (it looks like different manufacturers do them different). I do not know what ZS56 sizes and standards are. I remember people had problems fitting aftermarket headsets in some frames because of the headsets cups insertion portion was too tall for the bore in the frame.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Thanks for the info. That sounds like ZS56 top and bottom.

FYI. With regards to head set sizing, there is a Standardized Headset Identification System (SHIS) which is used to identify and classify the various headset standards. ZS means Zero Stack. Which is bearing cups pressed into a frame, with cartridge bearings into the cups. They call it Zero Stack because it doesn't add anything to the overall Stack of the headset, it is all inside the frame head tube. 56 means 56mm. There are alot of different sizes. But 56mm is quite common for lower cups as it allows for a 1 - 1/2" tapered steerer. Often the upper cup will be smaller like 44mm. From there you can then go on to describe the steerer tube dimensions. At the bottom its nominal size (rounded to nearest hole number) in mm of the lower fork bearing seat. So the size for a 1 - 1/2" steerer will be 40mm, and a 1 - 1/8" straight tube steerer will be 30mm. On the upper side, they define the steerer tube sizes directly. Which for 1 - 1/8" is equal to 28.6mm.

So someone can correct me if im wrong, but I expect that it is :

Upper ZS56-28.6
Lower ZS56-40

The reason I ask is I want to fit a straight 1 - 1/8" steerer dual crown fork, and an angle set, and want to get the parts ordered ahead of time

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Kindernay VII is amazing except one issue - it leaks oil. And the worst part of it is the oil gets on the rear brake over some time. If not this issue it would be the beat gear hub ever created. It uses regular brake rotors and regular Shimano cogs so changing those parts is not expensive and you have a bunch of options. It has cool hydraulic shifter also. It tolerates my 3000W Innotrace motor controller without issues.

Service parts are cogs (standard Shimano cogs), rear brake rotor (standard 6 bolts brake rotor), oil (I use Red Line D4 ATF oil), hydraulic oil (I use Magura blood)

If there are internal issues I doubt you can find a service to repair it, but I did not see anyone had internal issues with it except the oil leakage.

You do need to have ability to assemble and service the hydraulic shifter also (sometimes those hydraulic shifters may have issues from the factory, the hydraulic lines olives may be damaged (mine were damaged from the factory so I had to replace those myself)).

You can find more details about service here Kindernay maintenance.

I would probably try 3x3 nine hub instead of any other gear hub because of it is maintenance free for life according to the manufacturer (but you can disassemble and maintain it though), it uses grease (so no leaks), it tolerates higher torque than any other gear hub according to manufacturer. In theory you can even swap the wheels with it just like with Kindernay because of the internals are easy to remove from the shell. It uses cable twist shifter though, no nice hydraulic shifters. It is the heaviest hear hub. It also uses proprietary interface for cogs and brake rotors you can purchase only from the gear hub manufacturer and those things are expensive and are limited is sizes.

With regards to kindernay vii. I have destroyed 2 of them now. The first one lasted ok. And I bought the second one after the company went bankrupt. I found a guy selling surplus inventory and purchased a 2nd kit. And it has just started to slip and crunch which is exactly what my first one did right before it locked up.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Look at the color of the oil. That's metal that disintegrated under load

 

[TQFreak]

My Kindernay VII unit is over too.

Kindernay maintenance.

I am afraid to destroy it doing so because if another drive-train will fail Kindernay is the only option I have (besides the oil leaks it just works). Also depending on the ratchet mechanism grease actually can make it stop working or make it works worst or can cause shearing and destroying the...

forums.electricbikereview.com

I installed 3x3 nine hub and it works well so far

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

My Kindernay VII unit is over too.

Kindernay maintenance.

I am afraid to destroy it doing so because if another drive-train will fail Kindernay is the only option I have (besides the oil leaks it just works). Also depending on the ratchet mechanism grease actually can make it stop working or make it works worst or can cause shearing and destroying the...

forums.electricbikereview.com

I installed 3x3 nine hub and it works well so far

How long have you had that? I contacted them ages ago and wouldn't sell to me.

I have some CYC 5spds on order to test. Alot cheaper than IGHs

 

[TQFreak]

Are you asking about 3x3? I had it for a few months. Vapor Propulsion Labs is the 3x3 distributor here in the US. I do not know if 3x3 sells directly.

New High Torque IGH announced by 3x3

The hub shifts easily with no load, but under a slight load gets sticky so shift detection would be of benefit. This is quite common for IGH - none of the hubs allows you to shift easily under the load. Electronic shifters potentially allows shift detection to be used (I think Rohloff/Bosch...

forums.electricbikereview.com

 

[jonnyfive]

What an incredible build thread and resource! I stumbled upon this thread looking for a wiring diagram for the retention rhino battery as I’m building my own battery and E55 frame as well. It looks like you connected things a lot differently than how I was imagining it, gonna have to dive into your bms switch wiring pictures to understand what’s going on there!

 

[jonnyfive]

Can someone who’s built one of these batteries before explain why the wires are connected this way (the battery case I bought came like this)? I’m having a hard time understanding it.

The switch is wired to +1 and +2. The charge port is wired to +2 and +3. The motor power is wired to +2 and -4.

On the battery side of this terminal block, I thought I was going to connect three leads from the battery positive side to +1, +2, +3, and three leads from the BMS P- to -4, -5, -6. That seems wrong though. And where would I wire in the bms switch?