Meg meg

[Orangie]

Gonna try the meg neg on my super deluxe On the rail 7. Will report

 

[Doomanic]

Following.

 

[Like a Boss]

I’m watching with interest. I want to buy a rail, trying to decide between the 9.7 and 9.8, both of which need suspension improvements. Your XL frame fits a super deluxe, but I don’t have a way to know if the super deluxe will fit on a large frame. And if neither the super (9.7) nor the super with thru-shaft (9.8) are adequate for heavy downhill riding, then what’s left? Thanks for posting. Meg Neg might be a good option although for a regular super it doesn’t address the lack of an external reservoir to provide more oil volume and better cooling.

 

[Orangie]

The super fits the xl frame well. I was told that the reservoir will dent the frame on a medium so idk about the large. I was also told from a very well known suspension tuner that the meg neg is awesome. I think the air can will be close but I’m almost positive it will clear the seat tube. Meg neg on a deluxe will surely work on large but not sure about the super If you were near Pittsburgh pa you are welcome to come try it.!!!

 

[Doomanic]

I was also told from a very well known suspension tuner that the meg neg is awesome.

Who?

Edit: never mind, I've just realised you're in the States.

 

[Like a Boss]

The super fits the xl frame well. I was told that the reservoir will dent the frame on a medium so idk about the large. I was also told from a very well known suspension tuner that the meg neg is awesome. I think the air can will be close but I’m almost positive it will clear the seat tube. Meg neg on a deluxe will surely work on large but not sure about the super If you were near Pittsburgh pa you are welcome to come try it.!!!

orangie thanks for the offer. I’m on the west side, near Monterey CA. I like how you are going after the rear shock on the Rail. I’m coming up with some money to buy an eMTB and the Rail 9.7 seems to hit the “value spot” if there is such a thing. If the rear shock wants replaced on all models there is no reason the buy a higher model. I think on the ebikes the Yari and Lyric fork is the same chassis, different damper. But you don’t get the RC2.1 damper until the $12,000 bike. So the $6500 bike with a $330 damper equalizes the fork. Sell us the frameset already Trek!

 

[Orangie]

orangie thanks for the offer. I’m on the west side, near Monterey CA. I like how you are going after the rear shock on the Rail. I’m coming up with some money to buy an eMTB and the Rail 9.7 seems to hit the “value spot” if there is such a thing. If the rear shock wants replaced on all models there is no reason the buy a higher model. I think on the ebikes the Yari and Lyric fork is the same chassis, different damper. But you don’t get the RC2.1 damper until the $12,000 bike. So the $6500 bike with a $330 damper equalizes the fork. Sell us the frameset already Trek!

 

[Orangie]

Yes. Already did charger 2.1 damper. Much improvement. Drivetrain is awesome,no need to improve there. Carbon bars for trail damping on. I have rail 7 I felt better about alloy and Shimano 12 speed. Now come on summertime

 

[Like a Boss]

That’s rad. The charger dampers seem to be full retail everywhere , but that’s less than a new fork. I wonder if the Shimano 12 speed will wear better than the Sram GX in the ebike application? NX is pretty much an abomination. GX gets a pass, but isn’t great, IMO. So maybe Shimano is the way to go. Hey, you can change multiple gears at a time with Shimano 12 speed, yes? The Sram shifter limits shifting to one gear at a time. Sounds like you are getting your Rail dialed. What length dropper do you have?

 

[Orangie]

No. One gear at a time. That’s a non issue for me. Dropper is a 130 I believe. Could be a little longer ,but I’m not one for a high seat . Lever was crap so a put on a ztto lever. It’s nice. Tires seem good, Will wear them out , then decide on replacements Did the 108 point hub upgrade. 3 more springs and pawls. Sounds awesome. I think that’s it

 

[Like a Boss]

No. One gear at a time. That’s a non issue for me. Dropper is a 130 I believe. Could be a little longer ,but I’m not one for a high seat . Lever was crap so a put on a ztto lever. It’s nice. Tires seem good, Will wear them out , then decide on replacements Did the 108 point hub upgrade. 3 more springs and pawls. Sounds awesome. I think that’s it

Thanks for the report. My understanding of shifting is that shifting multiple cogs at one time under load is when chains break most often, hence one gear at a time for the eMTB chain line with Sram. But I think with Shimano, you have the option to shift multiple gears at one time with the XT shifter, but not the SLX, FYI. What’s cool about that is how well hyper glide must work for shimano to certify their 12 speed for emtb use with the ability to shift multiple gears under electric assist. I’ve been on Sram for a while and while it’s nice at the XO1 lever, the lower stuff is pretty basic, not refined. I asked about the dropper because I wonder whats possible. I started with a 125mm dropper, went to 150mm, then 160mm. My last bike had a 175mm dropper. It’s so chill. Like a low rider. Flat feet chillin on the bike. You have a solid bike. I’m west coast so winter doesn’t slow us down much. I hope spring gets there soon enough for you. Can I ask where you found a charger RC damper (with high and low speed compression)?

 

[Orangie]

I had it in my powerfly lt. Motor went out and trek traded it for the rail . I took it out before trade. Worldwidecycle I think. Rode my first ebike in mammoth lakes. Came home and bought 2. His and hers

 

[Like a Boss]

Where did you get the parts for a hub upgrade? Is that stuff standard? I heard the freehub on those Bontrager hubs could be switched from Shimano to Sram XD or the freehub for NX, or vice versa, for $99. But I don’t know about the pawl assembly.

 

[Orangie]

Yes. Trek has the in stock usually, New microspline hub is for 12 speed. They can switch them I believe

 

[seamarsh]

Thanks for the report. My understanding of shifting is that shifting multiple cogs at one time under load is when chains break most often, hence one gear at a time for the eMTB chain line with Sram. But I think with Shimano, you have the option to shift multiple gears at one time with the XT shifter, but not the SLX, FYI. What’s cool about that is how well hyper glide must work for shimano to certify their 12 speed for emtb use with the ability to shift multiple gears under electric assist. I’ve been on Sram for a while and while it’s nice at the XO1 lever, the lower stuff is pretty basic, not refined. I asked about the dropper because I wonder whats possible. I started with a 125mm dropper, went to 150mm, then 160mm. My last bike had a 175mm dropper. It’s so chill. Like a low rider. Flat feet chillin on the bike. You have a solid bike. I’m west coast so winter doesn’t slow us down much. I hope spring gets there soon enough for you. Can I ask where you found a charger RC damper (with high and low speed compression)?

I have SLX12 speed on yt decoy and can shift multiple gears up and down without issue.

 

[Gary]

My understanding of shifting is that shifting multiple cogs at one time under load is when chains break most often, hence one gear at a time for the eMTB

Yes and no.
Your chain, or more precisely the join between its pins and plates is under most stress when being twisted. and in order to change gear at all with a derailleur gearing system the chain has to twist. So stop trying to do it under load. Ease off your pedalling force until you hear/feel the motor assistance drop off before you shift gear. Learn to do this properly and consistently and repeat it every time and you can shift through multiple gears with far less stress to the chain than some muppet blindly shifting under load one gear at a time with their disability aid single click shifter. You'll get far greater drivetrain life as well by shifting properly.

Just because Shimano state their new 12 speed drivetrain shifts better under load (and it does). that still doesn't mean it's a great idea to intentionally do so.

Because the chain has far less distance to move during a gear shift, properly close ratio shimano road cassettes with only one tooth jumps between sprockets and mid range components still shift way better/smoother and more consistently than any of the newest super wide range mtb cassettes do no matter how much you spend on them (ie. 12spd XO, or XTR).

 

[Like a Boss]

I have SLX12 speed on yt decoy and can shift multiple gears up and down without issue.

Sweet. I thought I read somewhere that only XT and XTR did that. SLX is going to be dope for easy cash. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[Like a Boss]

Yes and no.
Your chain, or more precisely the join between its pins and plates is under most stress when being twisted. and in order to change gear at all with a derailleur gearing system the chain has to twist. So stop trying to do it under load. Ease off your pedalling force until you hear/feel the motor assistance drop off before you shift gear. Learn to do this properly and consistently and repeat it every time and you can shift through multiple gears with far less stress to the chain than some muppet blindly shifting under load one gear at a time with their disability aid single click shifter. You'll get far greater drivetrain life as well by shifting properly.

Just because Shimano state their new 12 speed drivetrain shifts better under load (and it does). that still doesn't mean it's a great idea to intentionally do so.

Because the chain has far less distance to move during a gear shift, properly close ratio shimano road cassettes with only one tooth jumps between sprockets and mid range components still shift way better/smoother and more consistently than any of the newest super wide range mtb cassettes do no matter how much you spend on them (ie. 12spd XO, or XTR).

I only have a few test rides on a Levo and a Rail. And not for very long. So I don’t have a feel for the power delivery with emtbs. Seems like sometimes there a little power applied by the motor after you stop pedaling. Maybe not. I completely agree that a deft shifting technique will prevent chain breaks and and reduce wear. Having shifted with Sram GX Eagle for a while it doesn’t matter what you do, it just shifts industrial. Not a pleasure to shift, only business. XO1 on the other hand is better, but like you said you gotta time the shifts. If this Shimano is so good (like I have read and you indicate as well) then maybe I can just get on the gas whenever I want and drift and green and have more fun? I think it’s rad when the shifting is dialed and the whole MTB experience comes together perfectly. But how many times has the trail changed up and you get a bad shift and forward motion comes to a halt. Because B tension. Or bent derailleur hanger. Or the shift in the wrong part of the pedal stroke. What if we could shift whenever we wanted and it just worked like a boss? Like a Porsche with a PDK or a Ferrari with paddles on the wheel? On the money, full boil, shredding the trail. And not a missed shift. Like A boss.

 

[Gary]

But how many times has the trail changed up and you get a bad shift and forward motion comes to a halt. Because B tension. Or bent derailleur hanger. Or the shift in the wrong part of the pedal stroke.

Genuinely never!
It's honestly not that difficult.
but I also have decades of experience working on and riding bicycles so am pretty intuitive if something is off. This also means I've ridden pretty much everything from 3 speed to 14 speed speed gearing and derraileur wise have ridden pretty much every gearing system around in the last 40/50 years. I still ride/work on bottom of the range no name or Altus/tourney grade derailleurs all the way up to XTR/XO on mtbs most weeks.

Seems like sometimes there a little power applied by the motor after you stop pedaling. Maybe not.

No. most motors have a little over run. you very quickly learn its timing, how it behaves and how best to use it to your advantage in both shifting sympathy/precision and riding in general.

What if we could shift whenever we wanted and it just worked like a boss? Like a Porsche with a PDK or a Ferrari with paddles on the wheel? On the money, full boil, shredding the trail. And not a missed shift. Like A boss.

I'd suggest either giving up on that dream for a while and simply taking the time to learn how best to operate a switch/lever controlled derrailleur or ponying up and spend the money on an expensive internal gearing system to retro fit to your emtb
Semi-automatic paddle shift motor car gear boxes share very little in common with bicycle derailleur gearing but do to some extent with internal gearboxes such as the pinion bicycle gearboxes. One day we'll probably have internal gear box motors on our Ebikes but something affordable, durable and light enough weight is probably still quite a way off

GX Eagle derailleurs are not actually very durable and tend to wear at the main pivot in a very short time, this along with the jockey wheel play they almostr alll develop almost as quickly means that although you see them as some sort of industrial workhorse that goes on forever in actual fact after a matter of months of regular all weather mtb riding nearly every one of those mechs is actually quite sloppy and imprecice. XO1 is as you say better. mainly because the quality of materials used and the fact pivots wear out less quickly. The jockeys can still be a weak point. Shimano are far better in that respect.

 

[Orangie]

It fits

 

[Like a Boss]

It fits

View attachment 26825

Orangie that’s fully flat brim meg neg. you’ve got your thread back. Sorry I got carried away with other Rail talk. Talk meg neg.

 

[Orangie]

Gotta take it back off. Must have chipped an O ring. It leaks air bad.

 

[Orangie]

Oring just rolled out of its groove. All good now. Once I get over the flu, I will test

 

[R120]

A good base setting with the meg neg is to use the same amount of bands in it as you have tokens in the shock

 

[knut7]

Why are you guys (considering) changing the shock? What do you want to acheive?

 

[Orangie]

Just experimenting, The super deluxe was a big surprise. Huge improvement, then a suspension tuner told me the meg neg was an awesome upgrade also. So we will see Was told 3 bands seems to be the sweet spot. Started there

 

[Orangie]

And it looks awesome ?

 

[Orangie]

Less than 200$ invested with used shock and meg neg.

 

[knut7]

The reActive shock on the 9.8 was very nice I thought, great at tracking.

I've got a Rail 7 that I havent ridden yet, got a bunch of snow this weekend. Will be interesting to test the bike without the reActive to se what difference it makes.

 

[Orangie]

Ok. Here’s what I think. No tokens in air side , 3 bands in neg side . Needed 45 psi extra to get sag. Great off the top, Huge mid support, I haven’t been able to bottom it yet. All the rock and log overs I used to hit on , I now clear. Definitely can hold more speed in rough stuff but maybe lost a little comfort. The harder you charge, the better it is. If you ride hard, you will definitely benefit from his.