Reliability of Shimano vs. Bosch?

[MateNako]

I'm sure we've all seen some comments of people stating that Shimano is unreliable motor without any potential service options, but is that really true? Does anyone really have some issues with it on a longer term , and is it true it cannot be serviced?
I'm asking real owners not internet specs whoi never owened a bike with this motor

I'm thinking about getting a "custom" Propain Ekano 2 or Canyon Strive:ON as they are both in similar price ranges and most people point me toward the Canyon due to the Bosch motor.

If anyone has some real feedback it would be much appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[Tony4wd]

Being able to regrease the Bosch CX crankshaft seals might make it more reliable in a damp climate. If you periodically check the seals the only way water should get into the motor is if it is submerged.
Bosch Gen4 Seal Service & Grease up

 

[Husky430]

Having owned both motors and have quite a few problems with the Shimano I would go Bosch all the way, just my humble opinion. And yes, NO SERVICE OR SPARE PARTS are available for the Shimano.

 

[Shjay]

Owned two Shimano motored ebike, 1st was 2019 Vitus esommet with E7000 motor never any real issues, did have 1 cable issue battery kept. Turing off! with PCE-02 could plug into each unit to discover wire from computer to motor damaged, bought & fitted replacement. not massive mileage think had software update issue with phone not being in airplane mode . Now have sold bike to mate he has had it two years as now have Orbea Rise which had no issues & love the natural feel & more adjustable tuning than E7000 to make a great riding bike one issue my fault nocked power button out with 200mm dropper on M20.

 

[Efrosty]

Joined this forum just for more info. I’ve been reading the negativity about the Shimano. We have two e-bikes, Scott and BMC, purchased in 2019 and no issues. Batteries still hold about the same charge. I got to ride a new Cannodale Moterra LT2. It was nice, but didn’t notice anything better or worse between the Bosch cx or the E8000. I’m trying to figure out the same myself as I’m looking for a new enduro bike. Most I like have the Shimano E8.

 

[steve_sordy]

I had a e8000, zero problems over 3100 miles. Out of warranty when bike sold.
I now have an EP8 at 2600 miles, zero problems. Just out of warranty.
Neither motor has been modified in any way.
So, for me its 100% reliability!

I am in that odd place where despite having zero problems and absolutely loving the natural feel delivered by the motors, my next bike will not have a Shimano motor. Why so?

A number of reasons:

• It's time for a change!
• I really do not like the non-repair option after the warranty period is over.
• I don't like the comments I read all too frequently about Shimano's attitude to customer service, even during the warranty period.
• I know that Shimano have stepped back on their battery life. (I know this comment is about batteries and not motors, but it points to their customer service attitude). They used to give a guarantee on the life of the battery based upon charge cycles. Try finding that now!
• But most of all, if you don't like something, then vote with your wallet and don't buy!

PS: If my current bike's EP8 motor fails, then I will buy a new motor because I have no other option. It would be nice to be able to pay a third of that and get it repaired.

 

[Tubby G]

Thread 'Shimano motor service / maintenance'
Shimano motor service / maintenance

 

[Chrysaor]

5000km on my Decoy with the E8000 and still going strong

 

[Tubby G]

The Ekano 2 looks great fun, I’d be tempted by that bike. I have bikes with both Bosch Gen 4 and Shimano EP8, and much prefer the Shimano motor.

It’s all down to personal preference but I felt the Bosch is too punchy, instant power. Feels like you’re in the seat of a dodgem car rather than riding a bike. That said, I’ve the old Purion display so can’t turn down the power settings in the app but can with the Shimano.

I’ve had both motors fail and replaced under warranty. Both took around 3 weeks before I got the bike back

 

[steve_sordy]

Thread 'Shimano motor service / maintenance'
Shimano motor service / maintenance

I noted that in my "library" when you first posted, thanks again.
In the event of a motor failure, I will of course give them a go.
However, I wonder if it would be worth letting them service the motor now at just over two years old and without any obvious problems.

"Don't fix what isn't broken" vs "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Hmmm, tricky!

 

[Tubby G]

I noted that in my "library" when you first posted, thanks again.
In the event of a motor failure, I will of course give them a go.
However, I wonder if it would be worth letting them service the motor now at just over two years old and without any obvious problems.

"Don't fix what isn't broken" vs "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Hmmm, tricky!

I’ll be servicing my motor after two years, just as I would any other expensive machinery. Especially machinery that’s dragged through muck, water and subject to drops, knocks and general abuse

 

[irie]

I’ll be servicing my motor after two years, just as I would any other expensive machinery. Especially machinery that’s dragged through muck, water and subject to drops, knocks and general abuse

Our 2022 Trek Rails will be out of warranty in January 2024. Both bikes have been faultless but will go to the eBike Motor Centre in Fordingbridge which is about 1 hour from us in Chichester, West Sussex.

Why?

Because we want to be as sure as possible of at least another two years use from the motors, and the way to try to avoid random breakdowns is regular service. For example, in summer 2024 we're in France for two weeks and a motor breakdown would be incredibly inconvenient. I can replace/repair/service anything else on the bikes, but not the motors.

 

[franciscoasismm]

I'm sure we've all seen some comments of people stating that Shimano is unreliable motor without any potential service options, but is that really true? Does anyone really have some issues with it on a longer term , and is it true it cannot be serviced?
I'm asking real owners not internet specs whoi never owened a bike with this motor

I'm thinking about getting a "custom" Propain Ekano 2 or Canyon Strive:ON as they are both in similar price ranges and most people point me toward the Canyon due to the Bosch motor.

If anyone has some real feedback it would be much appreciated.
Thanks!

View attachment 126599 View attachment 126600

Max.Odo Bosch & Shimano

I'm sure we've all seen some comments of people stating that Shimano is unreliable motor without any potential service options, but is that really true? Does anyone really have some issues with it on a longer term , and is it true it cannot be serviced?
I'm asking real owners not internet specs whoi never owened a bike with this motor

I'm thinking about getting a "custom" Propain Ekano 2 or Canyon Strive:ON as they are both in similar price ranges and most people point me toward the Canyon due to the Bosch motor.

If anyone has some real feedback it would be much appreciated.
Thanks!

View attachment 126599 View attachment 126600

I've been with ebike and its forums for 6 years, I hope these two photos help you decide

 

[Gavalar]

I'm sure we've all seen some comments of people stating that Shimano is unreliable motor without any potential service options, but is that really true? Does anyone really have some issues with it on a longer term , and is it true it cannot be serviced?
I'm asking real owners not internet specs whoi never owened a bike with this motor

I'm thinking about getting a "custom" Propain Ekano 2 or Canyon Strive:ON as they are both in similar price ranges and most people point me toward the Canyon due to the Bosch motor.

If anyone has some real feedback it would be much appreciated.
Thanks!

View attachment 126599 View attachment 126600

I live in North Yorkshire, sometimes it's wetter than an Otters pocket.
So far I have put 1800 miles, not kilometres, on a Shimano powered Yeti 160e and not even an error code, I suppose you need to decide if you're buying a motor or a bike that you really want and deal with problems if and when they happen.

 

[steve_sordy]

How does @franciscoasismm get such high distances?

 

[Zimmerframe]

How does @franciscoasismm get such high distances?

They're images from Facebook.

ebike motors are generally pretty reliable when used for commuting. It's when they're in the EMTB environment they start to suffer - especially in the wet.

Obviously it doesn't mean your motor will fail - it's just an increased possibility.

 

[steve_sordy]

They're images from Facebook.

ebike motors are generally pretty reliable when used for commuting. It's when they're in the EMTB environment they start to suffer - especially in the wet.

Obviously it doesn't mean your motor will fail - it's just an increased possibility.

I had assumed he was commuting, as it surely is the only way to get such high mileage in a short time.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I had assumed he was commuting, as it surely is the only way to get such high mileage in a short time.

Either that or he gets lost a lot ...

 

[wenna]

I see this come up a lot about Bosch being better for spare parts. But I can´t seem to find Bosch selling any more spares than Shimano. Some bearings and cables, but that´s about it.

 

[ggrin]

I'm sure we've all seen some comments of people stating that Shimano is unreliable motor without any potential service options, but is that really true? Does anyone really have some issues with it on a longer term , and is it true it cannot be serviced?
I'm asking real owners not internet specs whoi never owened a bike with this motor

I'm thinking about getting a "custom" Propain Ekano 2 or Canyon Strive:ON as they are both in similar price ranges and most people point me toward the Canyon due to the Bosch motor.

If anyone has some real feedback it would be much appreciated.
Thanks!

View attachment 126599 View attachment 126600

My Shimano motor on a Focus Jam failed with dreaded e010 error after about 4k miles and 2.5 years old. Replacement motor supplied by Madison for £460 plus fitting cost.

Definitely never buy a shimano again. I think it's the torque controller that's the problem but whatever it is there are no after market companies who can repair them. Bosch motor more reliable and can be repaired by several third party companies who also offer seal and bearing upgrades.

 

[franciscoasismm]

My Shimano motor on a Focus Jam failed with dreaded e010 error after about 4k miles and 2.5 years old. Replacement motor supplied by Madison for £460 plus fitting cost.

Definitely never buy a shimano again. I think it's the torque controller that's the problem but whatever it is there are no after market companies who can repair them. Bosch motor more reliable and can be repaired by several third party companies who also offer seal and bearing upgrades.

Andrzej Wodejszo repairs and sells Shimano Steps engines

andrzejwodejszo

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Dave 80]

My Shimano motor on a Focus Jam failed with dreaded e010 error after about 4k miles and 2.5 years old. Replacement motor supplied by Madison for £460 plus fitting cost.

Definitely never buy a shimano again. I think it's the torque controller that's the problem but whatever it is there are no after market companies who can repair them. Bosch motor more reliable and can be repaired by several third party companies who also offer seal and bearing upgrades.

You could try this guy, he fixed my Brose Gen 1 2018 Levo it is better now than when new

Brose Motor Upgrade Service - eBike Motor Centre (Performance Line Bearings)

At eBike Motor Centre we noticed the failure rates of the Brose motors has been widely reported and discussed on forums and social media platforms all over the world. We could also see from our own experience, and the sheer number of Brose motors going through our workshop that there were a few...

www.ebikemotorcentre.com

Opps I am 84

 

[steve_sordy]

You could try this guy, he fixed my Brose Gen 1 2018 Levo it is better now than when new

Brose Motor Upgrade Service - eBike Motor Centre (Performance Line Bearings)

At eBike Motor Centre we noticed the failure rates of the Brose motors has been widely reported and discussed on forums and social media platforms all over the world. We could also see from our own experience, and the sheer number of Brose motors going through our workshop that there were a few...

www.ebikemotorcentre.com

Opps I am 84

I believe that he refuses to fix Shimano motors because the circuit board is neither a serviceable nor replaceable item. It can fail at any time and he got fed up of customers complaining when the board failed a few weeks after he serviced the motor. It was costing him too much in money and good will.

 

[Tooks]

I had assumed he was commuting, as it surely is the only way to get such high mileage in a short time.

I’m not sure, my odo looked like that after the time I went to the ‘off-piste’ side of Sherwood Pines, I had 50km on it at the start…

Should have gone with a guide!

And on topic, my 4 year old Jam 2 with its E8000 motor is just approaching 2500 miles, took it apart last weekend for a grease of the gears and it’s still running great.

I’ve run it through deep water a lot, I get submerged sections on the byways I ride around here, there wasn’t a sign of any water ingress when I opened it up.

I’ve probably broken it now as it didn’t need fixing!

 

[Zimmerframe]

I believe that he refuses to fix Shimano motors because the circuit board is neither a serviceable nor replaceable item. It can fail at any time and he got fed up of customers complaining when the board failed a few weeks after he serviced the motor. It was costing him too much in money and good will.

I think it was a bit more complicated. If he made a repair to one problem in the motor (when Shimano refused to cover it) then Shimano then held them liable for any other failures in the motor and wouldn't cover them either. So with a motor with several known issues it meant Shimano just found more ways to wash their hands of the problems and make their warranty figures look better than they are - at the expense of owners and anyone who was actually willing to make repairs.

It's not that it's an awful motor. Or that it will fail on you. It's that it has several issues that have a higher chance of failing than they should and more importantly, Shimano's motor division's policy to try and avoid warrantying motor's or batteries wherever possible. Which as we see, is long term detrimental to their own business model as more and more companies jump ship from Shimano to other suppliers.

Years ago, when there was mainly just the early Brose's and the Bosch Gen2, Shimano's E8000 was an exciting alternative and lots of bike companies understandably developed models using that option. Now, why would you ?

Yes, the Brose has been renown for failures. But a large part of that was just because of the vast numbers out there and a vast amount of failures are caused by pedal strikes which don't immediately fail at impact, but cause the belt and/or sprag to begin to fail.

The flip side of failures and large numbers is that it became viable for third party companies to setup to repair them and manufacturer or obtain the necessary parts to do so. Hence, due to them being sh1t , Brose motored bikes are now probably one the safest second hand options to buy and at least buying new, you know you can get the thing repaired down the line if you decide to keep it longer and know that you can sell it, because people can get the motor repaired.

The Gen4 Bosch is generally pretty reliable and again you can get it repaired. It's not without it's faults longer term especially in wet environments, but you can change/upgrade seals and grease to help with longevity.

 

[franciscoasismm]

I think it was a bit more complicated. If he made a repair to one problem in the motor (when Shimano refused to cover it) then Shimano then held them liable for any other failures in the motor and wouldn't cover them either. So with a motor with several known issues it meant Shimano just found more ways to wash their hands of the problems and make their warranty figures look better than they are - at the expense of owners and anyone who was actually willing to make repairs.

It's not that it's an awful motor. Or that it will fail on you. It's that it has several issues that have a higher chance of failing than they should and more importantly, Shimano's motor division's policy to try and avoid warrantying motor's or batteries wherever possible. Which as we see, is long term detrimental to their own business model as more and more companies jump ship from Shimano to other suppliers.

Years ago, when there was mainly just the early Brose's and the Bosch Gen2, Shimano's E8000 was an exciting alternative and lots of bike companies understandably developed models using that option. Now, why would you ?

Yes, the Brose has been renown for failures. But a large part of that was just because of the vast numbers out there and a vast amount of failures are caused by pedal strikes which don't immediately fail at impact, but cause the belt and/or sprag to begin to fail.

The flip side of failures and large numbers is that it became viable for third party companies to setup to repair them and manufacturer or obtain the necessary parts to do so. Hence, due to them being sh1t , Brose motored bikes are now probably one the safest second hand options to buy and at least buying new, you know you can get the thing repaired down the line if you decide to keep it longer and know that you can sell it, because people can get the motor repaired.

The Gen4 Bosch is generally pretty reliable and again you can get it repaired. It's not without it's faults longer term especially in wet environments, but you can change/upgrade seals and grease to help with longevity.

All manufacturers of e-bike motors forget something very important: after-sales service. Here Andrzej Wodejszo covers a demand that we have been denouncing in the forums year after year. The most important thing is not only the Nm, the weight, etc. THE MOST IMPORTANT AND ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY THING IS THE AFTER-SALES SERVICE AND THE SALE OF SPARE PARTS