Reign E+ 2022

Rob Rides EMTB said:
He must have a different Yamaha motor to me lol.
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You guys were not comparing the same bike against the Levo and that's why you got a different result.

You were comparing the Reign E+ (Aluminum, heavier, mullet & Maxxis DD tires) and the bike was slightly slower versus the Levo.

Sam compared the Trance X E+ (Carbon, lighter, light casing Maxxis tires, full 29er & Fox Live Valve) and the bike was slightly faster versus the Levo.

Shows how efficient the more trail oriented Trance is at climbing versus the Reign.

Anyway, awesome comparison video Rob, keep it up!
 
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goroncy said:
Not only he has a different motor than you. These guys too ;):

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Interesting, never seen these guys before.

Looks like they do their tests on different days (Like 6 months between some of those timed tests listed in their video)!
 
Rob Rides EMTB said:
Interesting, never seen these guys before.

Looks like they do their tests on different days (Like 6 months between some of those timed tests listed in their video)!
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Well rested for testing then :D. But seriously. If all those tests prove anything then only that that these motors are very comparable (Brose, Yamaha, Bosch). And it also proves that those fears that Giant is not EWS-E ready are unjustified.
 
goroncy said:
Well rested for testing then :D. But seriously. If all those tests prove anything then only that that these motors are very comparable (Brose, Yamaha, Bosch). And it also proves that those fears that Giant is not EWS-E ready are unjustified.
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Totally agree! All of the motors are really decent performers. Its marginal performance at best! Tyres and suspension settings could have more of an impact to overall times!

I'd happily have any ebike with the Yam / Bosch / Brose!
 
Hi I have Reign 2022 and before I had Levo. For me the Brose has more torque or maybe it's just a different delivery, but where you need a lot of power immediately the Brose goes faster. My wife still has Levo, I tried uphill to use the Turbo and Yamaha level 5, maybe that's just my feeling, but Brose has more strength 🤷‍♂️
this does not mean that yamaha is bad, i like it a lot! ... but for a race I would use Brose
 
zorro77 said:
Size M bottle 600ml fit good
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Many thanks to @zorro77 and @trailaddict (and others maybe) for the tip about the Thirstmaster 4000 fitting on the Reign 2022.
mine this morning, flipped the magnets 180° and voilà!
Great to have 600ml in there. 👍

IMG_4218.jpeg
Received
 
You were comparing the Reign E+ (Aluminum, heavier, mullet & Maxxis DD tires) and the bike was slightly slower versus the Levo.

Sam compared the Trance X E+ (Carbon, lighter, light casing Maxxis tires, full 29er & Fox Live Valve) and the bike was slightly faster versus the Levo.

Shows how efficient the more trail oriented Trance is at climbing versus the Reign.

Anyway, awesome comparison video Rob, keep it up!
[/QUOTE]
Agree ✌ ... Gearing, Rear wheel size, Weight, Suspension, Tires,...could go deeper(battery cell configuration, battery cell quality, system voltage)...but that's for a different forum...that's why leaning buying decisions on these tests are mostly pointless, best to test it out if you can for your self...it's fun to watch though 😜 and see people scratching their heads 🙆‍♂️🤷‍♂️😂
 
Hurre said:
Not to ruin, but we have this, and it does not look so good. I do not understand German, so I used subtitles.
I liked the feel of the yamaha PW-X2 better, but updated the software on my regin e + 1 today, and set up steps 2-3-4 at max, was on a 2.5 hour ride, and it felt better than before, do not know whether it was updating and / or more effect on the steps that did this.
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Hey do you mean you updated the App software? Or how did you update the software on the bike?
 
Guys, different question about the motor...Auto mode?

How do you feel about it?

Isn't Yamaha PW-3( Giant Syncdrive) supposed to have 6 sensors that adjust the power delivery in A mode according to them.

Can someone compare the Reign's A mode to a Yamaha(Haibike) A mode...Rob you tested the Allmountain...what would you say?

I have my E+1 connected with my Garmin watch where I can see the current power mode used(it showes them like 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

When I switch to A mode the bike is in mode 4 all the time(uphill, downhill, flat,...) it also feels like there is no software present that would regulate the power delivery in different conditions according to the sensor input.

I feel that Giant totally fuc.... up with this A mode. Would even argue that it doesn't work as advertised.
 
emtbeast said:
Hey do you mean you updated the App software? Or how did you update the software on the bike?
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I updated because the phone said I had to, when I logged in to set 2-3-4 at max, I do not use the phone with the bike normally.
did not check which version I had before on the bike. So I do not know. To me who use the bike more as a trail bike,
I think they have removed the fun factor of the power, compared to the yamaha PW-X2.

I compare myself with a friend who has Focus Sam2 Boch (2021) I do not have a chance to go uphill as fast as him,
we get up all the steep hills, but I'm slower..
With my earlier bike, a Fatbike fullfatsix 2020, with yamaha PW-X2 i could keep up, or even go faster a short period.
It was a 500 battery, now on 625, it drains about the same.
So the feeling is less of a motor than before.
I still love this bike, its for me "do it all bike" because of the seat angle i think.
 
maurocif said:
I totally agree with you☹
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You mean that you actually need to pedal and have proper cadence of around 80? :D. But seriously. If someone wants the nice feeling of a kick and power why don't you guys consider buying a motorcycle? I think that if anybody finds pleasure in all those power surges that some other motors give then go full throttle (pun intended) and buy something with an engine. For me the motor is more a mean to an end. I can get up the hill faster. I can have an awesome day in mud and snow when I would normally feel I'm riding molasses. I can take my kids with me to the Alps. And a motor with such a natural feeling as new Yamaha, actually makes me forget I'm on a thing with a motor. For me there is NO difference between riding amish bike or an e-bike when it comes to how tired I am. I like to torture myself so my average HR is pretty much always 160. So my point is E-MTBs should be considered still bicycles. The motor is there to let you put a band-aid on a context of your ride: age, fitness, wanting to go faster, wanting to go further, kids, wanting to be less tired.... But. It is still a bicycle.

Please remember that this is 100% my personal opinion justified by 0 science or evidence ;).
 
Donamici said:
^ Amen brother! People moaning about this motor not being 'fun' need to have their priorities reassessed. If you can't have fun on one of these bikes there is no hope for you!
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Nah ;). There is. It's called throttle :D.

But being serious. People are different. I just wanted to point it out that I honestly think that there are people who go into e-mtb thinking it's a bit like on a motorcycle. And after some time they realize that a real motorcycle would be better. So I just want them to make this decision faster :).
 
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Hurre said:
I updated because the phone said I had to, when I logged in to set 2-3-4 at max, I do not use the phone with the bike normally.
did not check which version I had before on the bike. So I do not know. To me who use the bike more as a trail bike,
I think they have removed the fun factor of the power, compared to the yamaha PW-X2.

I compare myself with a friend who has Focus Sam2 Boch (2021) I do not have a chance to go uphill as fast as him,
we get up all the steep hills, but I'm slower..
With my earlier bike, a Fatbike fullfatsix 2020, with yamaha PW-X2 i could keep up, or even go faster a short period.
It was a 500 battery, now on 625, it drains about the same.
So the feeling is less of a motor than before.
I still love this bike, its for me "do it all bike" because of the seat angle i think.
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Nice comparison, my buddy has the previous Reign E+0. But we still didn't have a chance to do any serious rides together...it will be interesting to see how they differentiate ✌
 
goroncy said:
You mean that you actually need to pedal and have proper cadence of around 80? :D. But seriously. If someone wants the nice feeling of a kick and power why don't you guys consider buying a motorcycle? I think that if anybody finds pleasure in all those power surges that some other motors give then go full throttle (pun intended) and buy something with an engine. For me the motor is more a mean to an end. I can get up the hill faster. I can have an awesome day in mud and snow when I would normally feel I'm riding molasses. I can take my kids with me to the Alps. And a motor with such a natural feeling as new Yamaha, actually makes me forget I'm on a thing with a motor. For me there is NO difference between riding amish bike or an e-bike when it comes to how tired I am. I like to torture myself so my average HR is pretty much always 160. So my point is E-MTBs should be considered still bicycles. The motor is there to let you put a band-aid on a context of your ride: age, fitness, wanting to go faster, wanting to go further, kids, wanting to be less tired.... But. It is still a bicycle.

Please remember that this is 100% my personal opinion justified by 0 science or evidence ;).
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I am totally on the same train with u ✌😃👍
 
Donamici said:
^ Amen brother! People moaning about this motor not being 'fun' need to have their priorities reassessed. If you can't have fun on one of these bikes there is no hope for you!
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If you mean me, I didn't say anywhere that I don't like the bike or the motor.
Please read the post fully. I actually enjoy the feel of it alot. I am trying to make conversation about things I think are not as they were advertised, and Auto mode is definitely one of them as it is not applying power delivery according to the terrain(uphill, downhill, flat) the power delivery is always mode 4 wich is not Automatic obviously...
 
emtbeast said:
If you mean me, I didn't say anywhere that I don't like the bike or the motor.
Please read the post fully. I actually enjoy the feel of it alot. I am trying to make conversation about things I think are not as they were advertised, and Auto mode is definitely one of them as it is not applying power delivery according to the terrain(uphill, downhill, flat) the power delivery is always mode 4 wich is not Automatic obviously...
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Auto mode sucks monkey balls.
 
goroncy said:
Nah ;). There is. It's called throttle :D.

But being serious. People are different. I just wanted to point it out that I honestly think that there are people who go into e-mtb thinking it's a bit like on a motorcycle. And after some time they realize that a real motorcycle would be better. So I just want them to make this decision faster :).
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I love to pedal...that's why I still have my Jeffsy...not like some other people that go fully electric not looking back...😃✌
 
This is what I am writing about...it was advertised with the PW-X 2 and it looks it's no different with the PW-X 3...

Four sensors inside the motor housing, coupled with finely tuned algorithms for the drive control, result in higher sensibility to the rider’s input. The Quad Sensor System uses an angle sensor to detect the bike’s angle of climb or descent, as well as ride speed, crank rotation and pedalling torque sensors.

SYSTEM

Learn about the technology that makes Yamaha's power assist systems special
global.yamaha-motor.com global.yamaha-motor.com

So I am left wondering if Giant just forgot to incorporate this in their firmware, because I have mode 4 (High) support on flat road or even downhill in Auto mode...

That's why I asked if someone that had tried a pure Yamaha system can give some insight...

Screenshot_20220309-170344_Chrome.jpg
 
goroncy said:
You mean that you actually need to pedal and have proper cadence of around 80? :D. But seriously. If someone wants the nice feeling of a kick and power why don't you guys consider buying a motorcycle? I think that if anybody finds pleasure in all those power surges that some other motors give then go full throttle (pun intended) and buy something with an engine. For me the motor is more a mean to an end. I can get up the hill faster. I can have an awesome day in mud and snow when I would normally feel I'm riding molasses. I can take my kids with me to the Alps. And a motor with such a natural feeling as new Yamaha, actually makes me forget I'm on a thing with a motor. For me there is NO difference between riding amish bike or an e-bike when it comes to how tired I am. I like to torture myself so my average HR is pretty much always 160. So my point is E-MTBs should be considered still bicycles. The motor is there to let you put a band-aid on a context of your ride: age, fitness, wanting to go faster, wanting to go further, kids, wanting to be less tired.... But. It is still a bicycle.

Please remember that this is 100% my personal opinion justified by 0 science or evidence ;).
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Hehe, yes I agree with you on the training aspect, and I rarely use full help, but we have some steep hills, that I need it, or be really slow, or walk. 2 hours out in the woods HR 140-180, I get tired too, as I want.
The engine is nice, but this is electronics, so it would have been very nice with some settings that could have made it more fun (for me)

I want more power the more I pedal, the feeling is that the power up a hill resigns from the engine, and if I almost give up, the power / help from the engine comes back

Also, I wonder, if I buy a motorcycle, how can I then go to the woods with my friend for pedaling a bike? I compared with a previous engine model, and not a Honda cr 250 ... :)
 
@emtbeast - the snippets in your last Post only apply to Yamaha Motors, but not Giant Syncdrive Pro because they added additional sensors and use they own firmware: PedalPlus 6-Sensor Technology | Giant Bicycles Official site
Comparing Apples with Oranges does not help a lot. If you don't like the Auto-Mode of the Giant motor, just don't useit or buy another bike ;-)
 
emtbeast said:
I have my E+1 connected with my Garmin watch where I can see the current power mode used(it showes them like 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

When I switch to A mode the bike is in mode 4 all the time(uphill, downhill, flat,...) it also feels like there is no software present that would regulate the power delivery in different conditions according to the sensor input.
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This is a fair question, but I believe it is more of an integration issue (either on Garmin's side or Giant's side) and that they don't have a way to programmatically subscribe and publish the current power mode in real-time and display it to the user. So the Garmin engineer said eff it and just hardcoded the value to a 4 for display.

It would be a colossal screw up if Giant's automatic model is just hardcoded to level 4, despite all the marketing around the 6-sensor technology and smart algorithms. A simple way to test your hypothesis is to ride 30 minutes on each mode, each starting from full charge and on the exact same terrain, and compare the remaining battery life.
 
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trailaddict said:
@emtbeast - the snippets in your last Post only apply to Yamaha Motors, but not Giant Syncdrive Pro because they added additional sensors and use they own firmware: PedalPlus 6-Sensor Technology | Giant Bicycles Official site
Comparing Apples with Oranges does not help a lot. If you don't like the Auto-Mode of the Giant motor, just don't useit or buy another bike ;-)
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Hey thanks for chiming in. I am not comparing I am just pointing out the facts.

I know that there is a difference between firmwares and as by Giant said 2 additional sensors on the syncdrive.

I just wanted to hear if someone had tried both systems to compare the Auto mode.

Even if there are 2 additional sensors in the syncdrive...the firmware on the Giant obviously isn't setup up properly.

Because if the power delivery in Auto mode on flat terrain is as strong as in mode 4 ( in my case confirmed by my Garmin watch and for sure myself feeling the power delivery) then the Auto mode isn't working properly...we can agree on that right?

I would expect the power delivery to fall down to a least mode 2 in flat terrain if all 6 sensors are working properly.

Tried pedaling very slow, medium, hard in Auto mode on flat terrain...the power delivery is the same in all conditions, strong as in mode 4...

I am not trying to be negative about the motor, I love the power delivery in manual modes and the overall feel of the motor/bike, integration, etc...

But I do feel like the Auto mode is lacking in the firmware department...especially if the syncdrive really has 6 sensors...
 
mrandrewau said:
This is a fair question, but I believe it is more of an integration issue (either on Garmin's side or Giant's side) and that they don't have a way to programmatically subscribe and publish the current power mode in real-time and display it to the user. So the Garmin engineer said eff it and just hardcoded the value to a 4 for display.

It would be a colossal screw up if Giant's automatic model is just hardcoded to level 4, despite all the marketing around the 6-sensor technology and smart algorithms. A simple way to test your hypothesis is to ride 30 minutes on each mode, each starting from full charge and on the exact same terrain, and compare the remaining battery life.
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Hey good point 👍 I had my thoughts about the possibility about the Garmin being hardcoded to mode 4 in Auto.
Although I tried pedaling in Auto mode on flat terrain slow, medium, hard...etc...and the power delivery is the same strong as in mode.

I can see other modes change in real life. I will try to do a video of it when I have time.

I will also try to do your suggested test and will report about it...I am pretty sure 99% that Auto mode does not work as it should...based on 6 sensor inputs.
 
If someone has a garmin headset that can show "ebike" data fields such as power, then could that be used as a test to check what power the A mode gives you?
 
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