Pole S-Onni (Sonni)

Onetime

Active member
Aug 10, 2022
347
350
Cali
Went full 29'er - no particular reason why. Open to be convinced (though it'll mean adding the swingarm sensor and rotor magnet if I change). Both sound fun.
You don’t need to change to the swingarm sensor to run 27.5. People get the swingarm sensor so they can derestrict the bike. My first gen Voima had a rim magnet and I ran it full 27.5 without issue. My 2nd Voima race ID is also full 27.5, but with a swingarm magnet sensor. 😉
 

AdH

Member
Feb 2, 2019
74
114
Mustang
My Sonni will be here very soon, mine in first week of production! Anyone want to buy a K2 Voima frame? It’s in the UK, got new bearings, new bash guard, new slider and race axles fitted recently
 

THA

New Member
Sep 16, 2023
75
88
Finland
Has anyone driven matching size Onni (acoustic) and Voima (e)? Onnis K1 top tube is rather short, in comparison with Voimas K1 top tube, so if that's the case with larger sizes as well, did You downsize or size between those two? If so, how did You feel about outcome?
E: typos
 

AdH

Member
Feb 2, 2019
74
114
Mustang
I’ve ridden a K2 Voima for 17 months and had an afternoon on a Sonni. Sonni felt a little shorter in the top tube. I’ve ordered a K2 Sonni. Leo K is the same height as me and rides a K2
 

Plummet

Flash Git
Mar 16, 2023
861
1,223
New Zealand
Hmmm. It's still not for me. I just wont do a bike with a dog ball dangle motor like that.
The bash guard is a mud catcher and will be a hard stop if scraping along something. I assume they must also add a pe slider as well. no proper drink bottle mount, c of g higher up...

Just too many compromises.

I've checked my pe bash guard and there are some scapes up high. It wouldnt happen often. But there is a ris to catch the motor.
 

slickrock

Active member
Aug 7, 2022
106
112
SF Bay Area
Some recent news



Some Sonni thoughts on this video:
  1. Whoa on the enduro config travel reduction! Dropping a whole 20mm in rear travel from the original enduro spec. is significant, not to mention the whopping 40mm drop from the downduro version. I could understand maybe dropping to 30mm, but then again Leo is very deliberate about his design decisions. It sounds like Pole really backed off the progression in the leverage ratios to make this bike work in this category. Perhaps he wanted to draw a stark distinction between Downduro and Enduro riding characteristics - they are basically two different bikes at this point and would really require separate reviews to fully understand them. Heck, I may just order the enduro linkage and try this option myself.
  2. Pole appears to be subtly pushing both Sonni and Onni as the company's enduro offerings. Pink Bike is already testing the Enduro Onni with the 160mm rear, yet Pole did not send the Vikella for testing.
  3. The “jock strap” looks to be lightweight construction but too exposed to run without the PE Slider, so the cost adds up. At some point somebody can come up with a simple 3D-printed single piece unit to do the job.
  4. Alas, I was hoping for better bottle mount solution that was hinted at. Placing it at the base of the top tube is a no-go for short riders like myself put perhaps OK with taller folk. It’s lame that Bosch won’t allow bottle cases mounted on the battery cover. If the battery cover is anything like the Voima, I just might DIY install one myself.
  5. Like the small refinements like the hex key to drop the battery and internal cable routing groves, part symmetry, etc. New shock linkages look way more robust now and large volume Vivid looks to be the high-end option. I'm already thinking the Vivid can be used to tame the progression of the Downduro Sonni (as compared to Voima).
 
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Onetime

Active member
Aug 10, 2022
347
350
Cali
Some Sonni thoughts on this video:
  1. Whoa on the enduro config travel reduction! Dropping a whole 20mm in rear travel from the original enduro spec. is significant, not to mention the whopping 40mm drop from the downduro version. I could understand maybe dropping to 30mm, but then again Leo is very deliberate about his design decisions. It sounds like Pole really backed off the progression in the leverage ratios to make this bike work in this category. Perhaps he wanted to draw a stark distinction between Downduro and Enduro riding characteristics - they are basically two different bikes at this point and would really require separate reviews to fully understand them. Heck, I may just order the enduro linkage and try this option myself.
  2. Pole appears to be subtly pushing both Sonni and Onni as the company's enduro offerings. Pink Bike is already testing the Enduro Omni with the 160mm rear, yet Pole did not send the Vikella for testing.
  3. The “jock strap” looks to be lightweight construction but too exposed to run without the PE Slider, so the cost adds up. At some point somebody can come up with a simple 3D-printed single piece unit to do the job.
  4. Alas, I was hoping for better bottle mount solution that was hinted at. Placing it at the base of the top tube is a no-go for short riders like myself put perhaps OK with taller folk. It’s lame that Bosch won’t allow bottle cases mounted on the battery cover. If the battery cover is anything like the Voima, I just might DIY install one myself.
  5. Like the small refinements like the hex key to drop the battery and internal routing groves, part symmetry, etc. New shock linkages look way more robust now and large volume Vivid looks to be the high-end option. I'm already thinking the Vivid can be used to tame the progression of the Downduro Sonni (as compared to Voima).
I think the decision to drop travel is just to appeal to the masses who have been brainwashed into thinking that long travel can’t pedal good. If I were to buy one, I’d get the DH version and build it up like my Voima, lighter weight but still long travel and still burly enough to handle everything. One of the things I like about Pole is, it’s outside the box and Leo thinks outside of the box. But this decision to reduce the travel and make the rear less travel than the front, put the bike back in the box. I like that it was different and I don’t want it to be like everything else. I feel like he is making the bike worse, just to sell more. And in the video, Leo says he is still running his personal bike with the full long travel.
 
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slickrock

Active member
Aug 7, 2022
106
112
SF Bay Area
Have to say if I was in the market for a FF, thus would be the one.
I wonder if the the Enduro Sonni could pass as an SL as well? It's supposed 1Kg lighter than the Voima and now with 160/710 travel config, you could build it much lighter, especially if deploying with the smaller Bosch battery. For example, the Orbea Rise is using a full size motor but with a smaller battery and a bunch of lightweight components. It seems most SL EMTBs that are tested in MTB journals are the most expensive ones outfitted with the very lightest components - checkout actual Rise weight in the cheaper models, and certainly in the aluminum version, and one could start the question the SL moniker. I imagine if one were to weight-weenie an Enduro Sonni frame, it might dip into the SL domain, albeit without range extension capability.
 
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THA

New Member
Sep 16, 2023
75
88
Finland
I wonder if the the Enduro Sonni could pass as an SL as well? It's supposed 1Kg lighter than the Voima and now with 160/710 travel config, you could build it much lighter, especially if deploying with the smaller Bosch battery. For example, the Orbea Rise is using a full size motor but with a smaller battery and a bunch of lightweight components. It seems most SL EMTBs that are tested in MTB journals are the most expensive ones outfitted with the very lightest components - checkout actual Rise weight in the cheaper models, and certainly in the aluminum version, and one could start the question the SL moniker. I imagine if one were to weight-weenie an Enduro Sonni frame, it might dip into the SL domain, albeit without range extension capability.
I just can't get over the fact, that BB drop becomes as fatal as in most bulk emtb's. Onni would otherwise be so promising platform to conquer Trans Madeira, but as I can't have 29" at rear, the massive bb drop is just too much. But in general, with S-onni/Onni excellent pedaling behavior, I truly believe this trail versions fits better for bigger masses and may even "educate" those masses to advantages of Pole-front-line-geometry...
 

AdH

Member
Feb 2, 2019
74
114
Mustang
I just can't get over the fact, that BB drop becomes as fatal as in most bulk emtb's. Onni would otherwise be so promising platform to conquer Trans Madeira, but as I can't have 29" at rear, the massive bb drop is just too much. But in general, with S-onni/Onni excellent pedaling behavior, I truly believe this trail versions fits better for bigger masses and may even "educate" those masses to advantages of Pole-front-line-geometry...
Don’t think the BB changes. The difference is in the shock mounts. All geometry remains the same, just less travel. But when more is more, just go for more. Daft not to in my opinion
 

slickrock

Active member
Aug 7, 2022
106
112
SF Bay Area
I just can't get over the fact, that BB drop becomes as fatal as in most bulk emtb's. Onni would otherwise be so promising platform to conquer Trans Madeira, but as I can't have 29" at rear, the massive bb drop is just too much. But in general, with S-onni/Onni excellent pedaling behavior, I truly believe this trail versions fits better for bigger masses and may even "educate" those masses to advantages of Pole-front-line-geometry...
Why can't you have 29 on the rear?

I ordered a mullet but I'm still somewhat vexed about the choice - It will be my first. Clearly the choice would affect BB height as there are no yoke changes between these configs. Seems that the 200/190 Downduro spec with the mullet cleaves toward the original Voima 29/29 190/190, which is interesting and possibly implies the is the baseline config. After all, the original Onni prototype that Leo was racing at Sea Otter was sporting a mullet, though now he has indicated preference to 29/29 more often than not.
 
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sp3d3

New Member
Jul 11, 2023
3
0
Finland
Hi!

So Im about to buy sonni downduro and I have few questions.

I usually drive DH or enduro and some trail riding.

-Boxxer (not ultimate) or ZEP-ultimate?

-Does POLE sell the new version of boxxer?(38mm)

-Are the buttercups and better seals only difference between ultimate an regular version?(boxxer)

-Boxxer ultimate worth the extra cost?

Thanks!
 

cozzy

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2019
742
784
Basingstoke UK
Having owned a boxxer select, then an ultimate, I would buy a fox40.
If it's a full build and they don't sell the latest boxxer, maybe order the fork that will be easiest to sell, the Zeb I reckon, so you can then fit what you want.
 

slickrock

Active member
Aug 7, 2022
106
112
SF Bay Area
The PinkBike review of the Pole Onni Enduro is out and is effectively a first formal review of the Onni (and by implication, Sonni) and it's suspension, geometry, and ride characteristics.

1698179494176.png

More later on this...
 
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ebikerider

Active member
Oct 1, 2019
705
477
Australia
The PinkBike review of the Pole Onni Enduro is out and is effectively a first formal review of the Onni (and implied, Sonni) and it's suspension, geometry, and ride characteristics.

View attachment 127560
More later on this...
Wrong bike in that test imo. Why the Vikkela wasn't there instead is something I'd like to know.

I'm sure the Onni works well when it has the suspension on it that it was designed for but in this smaller travel configuration it doesn't seem to work well (according to Pinkbike).
 

Jul 6, 2023
11
12
Bellingham and Rotorua
Yeah it's really hard to know what someone else's preferences are as well. I normally live in Bellingham and have met several folks at pinkbike. I ride the same trails, and at a similar level to several of them. Sometimes I'm on board with their experiences, other times not at all. I got a really solid 7-8 rides in Squamish and Bellingham on a Voima and rode some dumb stuff. It was absolutely amazing. I did also notice a kind of weird sensation of 'tipping' in turns that would require a little adjustment, but it wasn't bad, just different. I sometimes think folks just get a little stuck on their preferences rather than appreciating a bike for its character. That said, I agree that Onni should have been tested at full travel or not at all.
 

Onetime

Active member
Aug 10, 2022
347
350
Cali
Wrong bike in that test imo. Why the Vikkela wasn't there instead is something I'd like to know.

I'm sure the Onni works well when it has the suspension on it that it was designed for but in this smaller travel configuration it doesn't seem to work well (according to Pinkbike).
I agree. And this is kind of what I was getting at earlier. The bike was designed for long travel, so it should have been left as it was instead of reducing the travel to appeal to the masses. With the long travel version it wouldn’t have been as harsh as the lower travel version and the stiff frame likely wouldn’t have been complained about either with the more compliant longer travel version. Also pinkbike shouldn’t have reduced the air pressure in an effort to increase small bump compliance, they should’ve reduced low speed compression instead. All they did was increase how easily it bottomed out by reducing the air pressure.
 

guile80386

Member
Jan 23, 2022
18
22
PT
I agree. And this is kind of what I was getting at earlier. The bike was designed for long travel, so it should have been left as it was instead of reducing the travel to appeal to the masses. With the long travel version it wouldn’t have been as harsh as the lower travel version and the stiff frame likely wouldn’t have been complained about either with the more compliant longer travel version. Also pinkbike shouldn’t have reduced the air pressure in an effort to increase small bump compliance, they should’ve reduced low speed compression instead. All they did was increase how easily it bottomed out by reducing the air pressure.
Maybe the Vivid is over damped as MTB Telly found? Hope not as I've ordered my 200/200 Sonni with the Vivid Ultimate.
 

Paris Doo

Member
Jun 20, 2022
58
61
Greece
Sometimes I can't understand Pole's decisions.

Why do they have 2 different overlapping platforms with over / undestrocking bikes that nobody really understands who they are for? I mean it is obvious that they have sent either the wrong bike or the wrong version of the "correct" bike so if they can't even make the correct choice how are we supposed to make it for ourselves?
 

militantmandy

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2022
399
368
Tweed Valley, Scotland
Sometimes I can't understand Pole's decisions.

Why do they have 2 different overlapping platforms with over / undestrocking bikes that nobody really understands who they are for? I mean it is obvious that they have sent either the wrong bike or the wrong version of the "correct" bike so if they can't even make the correct choice how are we supposed to make it for ourselves?
Absolutely. I struggle to follow the rationale of the Pole range.
 

slickrock

Active member
Aug 7, 2022
106
112
SF Bay Area
The PinkBike review of the Pole Onni Enduro is out and is effectively a first formal review of the Onni (and by implication, Sonni) and it's suspension, geometry, and ride characteristics.

View attachment 127560
More later on this...

Some thoughts based on the Omni review and member posts and the implications for Sonni:
  1. While the review came off largely unfavorable, Henry seems to be the more partial of the testers in the video and understood the bike’s versatility in both wheel and yoke swap. Mike was the more critical tester and wrote the review. Normally the open comments in Pinkbike lame and snarky, but this time there were a fair amount of posts critical of the review, or just trying to get to the bottom of why the bike performed the way it did for the testers. A few posts asked for leverage ratio graphs, anti-squat graphs, etc, and frankly at this point, Pole should have published these by now. Pole has been marketing the Onni/Sonni as having Sensei suspension, but it’s not clear if this case unless we can see graphs ourselves and compare them to the Voima.
  2. Leo said he took off the top and bottom of the progression when dropping down to the Enduro version from the Downduro version, and the consequences of this seem to show up the review. Claiming the bike bottomed out severally times (in one instance quite harshly) tells me Leo should have reconsidered dropping the Enduro rear travel from 180/177mm down to 160mm. That the vacuous Vivid didn’t help after much fiddling (not much detail here, were spacers removed or added?) is not encouraging, though I’m agree with some posters that the Vivid tuning sounded off. I agree with others that the full 200mm test would have faired much better; that adding more progression range would help the harsh chatter bump ride in the initial travel and the harsh bottom outs at the end of travel. Also, there were comments about the high bottom bracket not settling in far enough when on the bike [versus the 200mm version that would have more 40mm or travel to do just that].
  3. The claims about a firm ride may be too firm for non-race riders. While this may has something to do with forcing a 200mm downhill bike into a 160mm enduro hole, it does open the question about stiffness of the frame itself as well as the axles. It is assumed that the test bike had race axles since the Pole downhill bikes have them by default. This makes me wonder if the non-racing axles are better option to tame the racing stiffness of this bike. I think there are some folks on the forum who have switched axles on their Voimas and it cool to get some feedback on how the ride and handling was affected.
  4. The noising cabling should not carry over to the Sonni because of the full access to the cabling inside of the bike when the battery is removed.
Overall, the criticality of the review should warrant some kind of response from Pole. Perhaps some tuning could be had before the bikes are in general release. Or maybe send the longer shock and 200mm yoke and Zeb rod extension to Pinkbike so they can do a better follow up review before they ship the bike back. As to the implications for the Sonni, it seems clear that the 200mm setup is the way to go.
 
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King Liu

Member
Dec 16, 2019
11
8
Wollongong
Sometimes I can't understand Pole's decisions.

Why do they have 2 different overlapping platforms with over / undestrocking bikes that nobody really understands who they are for? I mean it is obvious that they have sent either the wrong bike or the wrong version of the "correct" bike so if they can't even make the correct choice how are we supposed to make it for ourselves?
Having had a Voima for a while, the biggest change between the two platforms is just being able to get a double crown fork on the sonni with room for adjustment. The 140mm headtube length on the voima really limits your options when using a 40 or Dorado, while I though it was a positive trait when using a Zeb.

I've a 40 on my Voima now and I'd never go back to a Zeb or any other single crown fork. The two brands of reduced offset crowns (mojo and outsider) I had don't work comfortably on a voima, so I'm back on the stock crown. As the sonni is intended more for gravity racing, I can understand the water bottle choice, but I'm surprised a rear setup to use a 157mm rear hub isn't available as an option as well. After there are more user reviews of the sonni, I'll probably get one if they are positive when in 200mm coil shock setups.
 

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