KeithR
Well-known member
Is that something to boast about?
Lockdown How far is too far
- Thread starter Coburn
- Start date
KeithR
Well-known member
You seem to misunderstand what the word "luxury" means.
Don't beat people up for something that's purely the luck of the draw.
No I understand it perfectly. Others unfortunately have also been forced to isolate. Whilst others had no choice to crack on at risk.
I don't think hardly anyone has been dealt a good hand in all this, but as per my original point, and OP, I think everyone's different experience in all this will shape their views and perception of this shitty situation. And what they deem acceptable in regards travel / exercise and restrictions etc.
I certainly wasn't 'beating people up'. It's just a viewpoint fella. Might not be the same as yours but life would be boring if we was all the same.
I'll leave it there cos tbh I'd rather chat bikes and get away from the great covid debate.
Stay safe everyone and hopefully get some bike time ??
KeithR
Well-known member
"Required"? No. No business is required to continue to conduct its business - they're allowed to.
But as a case in point:
Around 130,000 in construction still on furlough
Peak number was over 700,000 in April
www.building.co.uk
This couldn't have happened if construction was "required" to keep working.
And in fact, I'll bet that our govt soon follows Ireland's lead and closes non-essential construction:
Ireland bans non-essential construction | Construction News
Ireland has announced that construction sites will be closed from 6pm tomorrow (8 January), with some limited exceptions, as part of strict coronavirus
www.constructionnews.co.uk
I'll let you come and read all the contracts sitting on my desk, and argue with all the clients that are keeping sites open and putting pressure on contractors to deliver on time, despite restrictions on working conditions. Failing to do so can cost millions in damages. And is putting firms out of business. That's a fact.
People in construction on furlough might be because they are unfortunate that works dried up or slowed.
Meeting contractual obligations in unprecented circumstances is somewhat different.
Can read what you like on the internet mate but the real world is somewhat different.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
In total contrast to all those who have to work every day. To those who live in tower block flats with several small children, to those without a decent broadband speed, to those who just cannot afford one computer per child for their on-line learning,or even one! To those single parents without help from anyone, to the old folk that have not had the opportunity to meet, let alone see or hug their family, to all those who live in a city without access to green spaces. To those who are furloughed and worried about whether it is a precursor to unemployment. To all those who have lost their job or their living because of Covid, or are struggling to keep their business from going broke. To anyone living alone. To all those with non-Covid related "underlying conditions" like cancer and other nasties and have found their treatments postponed. To all those dealing on a daily basis with those infected by Covid, or might be....
I salute you!
You all make me feel so guilty and yet so lucky all in one go!
I am 69, so I'm knocking on the door of those who should be very concerned about Covid. But I'm not. I don't have any underlying health conditions (that I know about!) I am retired, my finances are secure, I have no worries, my wife loves me (still - I think), my kids are supportive if a little preachy. We have good broadband, we live in a village with access to green space (not as excellent as Hodge, but hey you can't have everything!) We live in a house with a big garden and I have an emtb to play with (bliss). The supermarket on-line ordering has all our basic needs delivered, plus beer and wine of course. My biggest dilemma is: should I drive 25 miles to my local trail centre where I hardly ever see anyone, let alone meet anyone, because I ride off-piste? My jury has been out on that one, but today I decided not to do so; local tarmac for - me no matter how boring it may be. I have so much to be thankful for.
The thing I miss most is not being able to meet my mates at the pub. That is such a small thing compared to what many, many, others are missing that I feel like a trivial person just for mentioning it. Like I said I have so much to be thankful for.
We should all count our blessings; I sure do.
I salute you!
You all make me feel so guilty and yet so lucky all in one go!
I am 69, so I'm knocking on the door of those who should be very concerned about Covid. But I'm not. I don't have any underlying health conditions (that I know about!) I am retired, my finances are secure, I have no worries, my wife loves me (still - I think), my kids are supportive if a little preachy. We have good broadband, we live in a village with access to green space (not as excellent as Hodge, but hey you can't have everything!) We live in a house with a big garden and I have an emtb to play with (bliss). The supermarket on-line ordering has all our basic needs delivered, plus beer and wine of course. My biggest dilemma is: should I drive 25 miles to my local trail centre where I hardly ever see anyone, let alone meet anyone, because I ride off-piste? My jury has been out on that one, but today I decided not to do so; local tarmac for - me no matter how boring it may be. I have so much to be thankful for.
The thing I miss most is not being able to meet my mates at the pub. That is such a small thing compared to what many, many, others are missing that I feel like a trivial person just for mentioning it. Like I said I have so much to be thankful for.
We should all count our blessings; I sure do.
I work in construction in central London, currently running 8 sites, average contract value in the multiple millions, and IMO the construction industry should be shut down except for essential infrastructure work and emergency repairs/work. To give an idea I probably came in direct contact with around 100 people last week, all fully PPE'd etc, but still not ideal. Yes this would hurt me financially, but the real world day to day situation is a cross between a horror movie and a comedy.
The sites are a nightmare right now, and I am lucky in that I work in a sector of the industry where we can afford to work to the highest standards and implement the best Covid Management protocols - everyone on site is temperature tested at sign in, has to scan in and out on the NHS contact tracing app, wash/hand gel station on every level etc etc masks worn at all time, and only one trade can work in any area at any time. Any positive test, whole site staff tested, whole site shut down for 10 days, disinfected etc before starting back up.
Despite all of this we are working at about half capacity across all fronts, multiple design teams down, joinery companies down, subcontractors down, suppliers down etc. During the first lockdown we served Force Majeure on all contracts and shut down the sites for 8 weeks, clients where all understanding of this and on board with it.
This time we have tried to keep going, but its at the point now where you feel like going on to a site its 50/50 you will walk away with Covid. The reason for this is most sites are paying scant heed of safety protocols, and the virus is running rife though them, I have been amazed at what I have seen on some sites - the reality is most of construction is subcontractors who are self employed, and if they don't turn up they don't get paid, and paying out to implement decent covid protocols is money people don't want to spend. Since so many trades, e.g waste removal, delivery drivers, consultants etc move between multiple sites every day, you have so many vectors for the virus to jump between sites.
We are lucky in that the contractors we work with directly employ the majority of trades, and as such can furlough staff, but this is unusual in the industry, as most "main" contractors have relatively few employes.
Most of my sites have 30 plus people on them day to day, all with families/flat mates etc etc. Its just crazy as the sites are a perfect breeding ground for the virus, yet they can remain open, and unfortunately since the government has done bugger all in terms of clear direction for the construction industry, a lot of the less scrupled people out there won't budge on forcing contracts to be played out.
People are genuinely scared to come to work, but feel like they have no other option, and the atmosphere this creates is horrible. IMO at this point in time construction is not essential to the economy, simply because what's the point in a lockdown when you have millions of people going onto crowded building sites, who are themselves in contact with millions more when they go off those sites.
As I said at the top, I am lucky to work in a sector of construction where if I decided to shut down a site, there is no argument, from the client, or the contractor, and we have set up contractual mechanisms to ensure contractors are financially covered and clients not out of pocket as best as we can, but this is a rarity rather than the norm.
I know there are several law suits brewing where tradesmen on sites have contracted the virus, and died, and the lawyers are coming after the clients/main contractors too, so I can see a real shitstorm ahead on that front too.
What does this have to do with where I ride my bike - well simply put I am very conscious of how many people I come into contact with through work, and even though I get tested fortnightly, I don't want to place anyone else at risk due to the fact that I feel I have to place myself at risk by working in an industry that is only deemed essential due to lobbying of ministers, rather than any realistic assessment.
Its one thing if you are working from home and not seeing anyone, but if you are working and coming into contact with a lot of people, I feel you have a personal responsibility not to be an idiot.
The sites are a nightmare right now, and I am lucky in that I work in a sector of the industry where we can afford to work to the highest standards and implement the best Covid Management protocols - everyone on site is temperature tested at sign in, has to scan in and out on the NHS contact tracing app, wash/hand gel station on every level etc etc masks worn at all time, and only one trade can work in any area at any time. Any positive test, whole site staff tested, whole site shut down for 10 days, disinfected etc before starting back up.
Despite all of this we are working at about half capacity across all fronts, multiple design teams down, joinery companies down, subcontractors down, suppliers down etc. During the first lockdown we served Force Majeure on all contracts and shut down the sites for 8 weeks, clients where all understanding of this and on board with it.
This time we have tried to keep going, but its at the point now where you feel like going on to a site its 50/50 you will walk away with Covid. The reason for this is most sites are paying scant heed of safety protocols, and the virus is running rife though them, I have been amazed at what I have seen on some sites - the reality is most of construction is subcontractors who are self employed, and if they don't turn up they don't get paid, and paying out to implement decent covid protocols is money people don't want to spend. Since so many trades, e.g waste removal, delivery drivers, consultants etc move between multiple sites every day, you have so many vectors for the virus to jump between sites.
We are lucky in that the contractors we work with directly employ the majority of trades, and as such can furlough staff, but this is unusual in the industry, as most "main" contractors have relatively few employes.
Most of my sites have 30 plus people on them day to day, all with families/flat mates etc etc. Its just crazy as the sites are a perfect breeding ground for the virus, yet they can remain open, and unfortunately since the government has done bugger all in terms of clear direction for the construction industry, a lot of the less scrupled people out there won't budge on forcing contracts to be played out.
People are genuinely scared to come to work, but feel like they have no other option, and the atmosphere this creates is horrible. IMO at this point in time construction is not essential to the economy, simply because what's the point in a lockdown when you have millions of people going onto crowded building sites, who are themselves in contact with millions more when they go off those sites.
As I said at the top, I am lucky to work in a sector of construction where if I decided to shut down a site, there is no argument, from the client, or the contractor, and we have set up contractual mechanisms to ensure contractors are financially covered and clients not out of pocket as best as we can, but this is a rarity rather than the norm.
I know there are several law suits brewing where tradesmen on sites have contracted the virus, and died, and the lawyers are coming after the clients/main contractors too, so I can see a real shitstorm ahead on that front too.
What does this have to do with where I ride my bike - well simply put I am very conscious of how many people I come into contact with through work, and even though I get tested fortnightly, I don't want to place anyone else at risk due to the fact that I feel I have to place myself at risk by working in an industry that is only deemed essential due to lobbying of ministers, rather than any realistic assessment.
Its one thing if you are working from home and not seeing anyone, but if you are working and coming into contact with a lot of people, I feel you have a personal responsibility not to be an idiot.
olde-mtber
Member
Here in Nelson New Zealand we are fortunate enough to have a wide range of riding available to us. I rode when we were in level 4 lockdown. So to me riding local means riding there and back no other form of transport involved. When and if I met anyone on my ride we kept a 2 meter distance where practicable otherwise it was stopping and letting the other ride go straight on by no stopping for a chat etc. The other important thing was not to do anything really stupid that would cause you to call for emergency services to come and get you. That would not go down well.
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Force welcomes new guidance from NPCC about travelling during lockdown
Force welcomes new guidance from NPCC around about travelling during lockdown
www.derbyshire.police.uk
Still doesn't actually define "local area"...
Fast Willy
Member
If you let government control what you can do, you got problems. I'm not staying in no f***ing recommended area. I elect those assholes, they don't control me
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Banktramp
Well-known member
Just my opinion if your not building hospitals then it’s not essential, I have many tradesman friends who are working on site building new builds and office blocks which during the current pandemic will sit empty once complete.
Working from home will be the new norm so why have a big nice posh office which adds to the bottom line when people can do the same work without the travel and less cost.
Massive unemployment due to covid means less people working so people will be holding onto any savings they have rather than get a big mortgage with very little job security.
At the end of the day people have to earn a living and put food on the table, everybody is jumping on the key worker or essential shop bandwagon so they can continue to stay open and earn money.
Going back to comments earlier in this thread about people staying at home whilst others have to go to work. I’m sure the 730,000 people who have lost there job would rather be at work then getting state hand outs.
Working from home will be the new norm so why have a big nice posh office which adds to the bottom line when people can do the same work without the travel and less cost.
Massive unemployment due to covid means less people working so people will be holding onto any savings they have rather than get a big mortgage with very little job security.
At the end of the day people have to earn a living and put food on the table, everybody is jumping on the key worker or essential shop bandwagon so they can continue to stay open and earn money.
Going back to comments earlier in this thread about people staying at home whilst others have to go to work. I’m sure the 730,000 people who have lost there job would rather be at work then getting state hand outs.
Bontee
Member
Yes but when 94% of deaths are 75 years old + with the average age being 83 with underlying health issues ( ons stats) .
it does make me wonder who I personally am saving by not going out riding,I dont actually come in contact with anybody generally and certainly no-one in the typical demographic for dying.Before anyone accuses me of being heartless I am a front line worker (surgeon) I use heavy duty ppe ,masks visors gloves gowns,I have regular covid tests and am getting vaccinated next week .
That does not change the fact that a vast majority are having their lives seriously curtailled for little actual benefit to the very vulnerable.
All the best from the front line
Bontee
Member
I agree steve,I have posted above ,but I feel the same,I can drive 20 miles ,ride for hours with my wife,or mates,drive home see no-one,outside that carefully guarded group,what risk am I.
The pubs around my local area,were truly brilliant during the last round of restrictions,spaced tables,screens,table service.I am 59 my best mate is also 59 with some health issues so we are not going to do anything stupid,but we too would like to go out do some rides and get a pint.I don’t think it’s alot to ask.
Supratad
Well-known member
I would have thought, or hoped, that under a Building Contract, particularly a JCT one, an extension of time due to force majeure would be acceptable. I've seen some hard nosed clients in my time, but forcing a contractor to meet a deadline that then destroys the firm is not conducive to getting a good build nor any post-completion works for latent problems.
edit ; just read R120's post.
Supratad
Well-known member
And that's one of the many reasons why we have only 80,000 dead now.
I sympathize with you guys. Where I am in Melbourne metro area, Australia, we had stage 4 lockdown last August-November and were limited to exercise within a 5km radius from home. Because I live on the edge of the metropolitan boundary, I could make up a 25km ride through country back roads and hills and still stay within the 5km radius. Pretty stupid restrictions for farmland areas, but those were the rules, and I occasionally came across police vehicles doing random patrols. A few of those rides each week helped keep me from rusting up?
We don't have anywhere near the population density of the UK, so don't have the same problems.
We don't have anywhere near the population density of the UK, so don't have the same problems.
KeithR
Well-known member
Which is precisely the cretinous attitude that makes those of us in the civilised world so happy that we don't live in the US.
That's exactly what you elect them to do, you imbecile - that's literally the dictionary definition of democracy!
Seriously: nobody here in the UK - which is what this discussion is mainly about (England, specifically) - gives a toss about your braindead redneck shitkicker opinion. Mind your own fecking business and leave thinking to the grown-ups.
Don't you have a Capitol to storm?
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KeithR
Well-known member
Which conscientiousness is to your credit (and much the same approach that I'm taking.)
I've mentioned before that I'm legally trained, and I'm very experienced in interpreting law into lay language. So I can say with some authority that the current situation in England is a car-crash - just what always happens when legislation is rushed through without adequate scrutiny.
It remains the case that (as I touched on here) there is no specific legally-binding proscription or limit on how far we can travel for exercise:
Covid fine review welcomed by 'intimidated' women
The friends said they were relieved people would not have to fear being fined for taking a walk.
www.bbc.co.uk
Covid-19: Lockdown needs to be stricter, scientists warn
The new more infectious variant requires tougher measures to control the spread of Covid, say scientists.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
I kind of wonder where these stats come from and if they are what country/countries? Are they china virus deaths, adjusted deaths, or all deaths?
In 2019 there were 530841 deaths registered in England and Wales - 1454 per day. This was a decrease from 2018, which was 541,589 or 1483 per day.
Looking at statistics from several countries and world-wide trends I am really struggling to understand the hysteria.
The worst epidemic in recent history was the Spanish Flu virus (H1N1 Ver 1) of 1918 which infected 1/3 of the worlds population. The Swine Flu (H1N1 Ver 2) of 2009 infected about 1.4 Billion people and ranged from 150,000 to 575,000 deaths worldwide depending on which statistics are used.
Sadly, the information we are getting from the media is severely hysterical and some of the measures taken by authorities are very much illogical.
Now before you bitch - I have tested positive and negative in the same week using the same testing facility. Have had more than a few friends hit by it that recovered and have lost a couple friends through it (or more correctly, had it make the health issues they already had more severe).
What we need is FACT - not assumptions. We need guidance based on correct data and we need that guidance to be balanced and fair.
These lock-downs are destroying the mental health of many elderly people who need contact to keep themselves balanced.
Allowing large chain stores to open while stopping the small mum & dad stores opening is idiotic. I have seen lockdowns in 3 different countries run similarly and have noticed the health and safety measures taken by the smaller stores to be far more effective than those of the larger stores.
Anyways - back to the subject ...
Go ride - just don't be an idiot about it. Don't go to another county to ride, but go to the closest area you can legally ride and get some fresh air and physical exercise.
Wow !
While I'm with you on this ..it makes my moderator deleted post regarding Trump on a totally different thread look like a kiddies bedtime story ..?
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
How about you just go to your safe place and chill out.
Seriously, just because YOU are prepared to accept whatever the people elected decide to do, that does not mean you - or they are right. It also doesn't mean an opposing opinion is right ... or wrong.
I just love the line .... "Mind your own fecking business and leave thinking to the grown-ups."
That is probably the most juvenile post in this thread.
It would be interesting to know the figure for the total number of deaths daily ( in a non morbid kind of way) ..just to see the % number of deaths being attributed to Covid .
Without wishing to be too sceptical I just think a lot of non related deaths are being lumped into the covid figure although I have absolutely no proof of this ..
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
The problem is that anyone with covid is listed as a covid related death.
My friends mum was in hospital 3 times last year with heart attacks and each time they were told she would not recover. Had another heart attack in March and died, but it was listed as a covid death. My friend Christine was furious and had her lawyer write to the hospital and have the cause of death changed. They refused so she petitioned the coroner and provided her mums full medical hostory - was changed immediately.
That kind of thing is not uncommon and is frustrating to many. Probably it is more the fault of hospital administrators as funding is a lot higher than for most anything else. Who knows - just want proper data and valid statistics.
MrSimmo
E*POWAH Elite
This is an interesting question and also affects me as I still need to travel with work during lockdown:
If you are travelling for work to X area, can you take the bike to exercise while you’re there?
For example, you live in Norwich and are working on a job near Cannock Chase. (I dont and Im not, before the keen bike thieves start getting excited)
Answers on a postcard and first prize is a throughly positive good old british pat on the back ?
If you are travelling for work to X area, can you take the bike to exercise while you’re there?
For example, you live in Norwich and are working on a job near Cannock Chase. (I dont and Im not, before the keen bike thieves start getting excited)
Answers on a postcard and first prize is a throughly positive good old british pat on the back ?
Gentlemen, Ladies,
Just a reminder. This is an EMTB forum. I know this subject is frustrating for many of you and the situation itself is extremely difficult.
But, please at least try to keep things civil.
We don't generally allow much political discussion as it always ends up going in the same direction. I don't want to ban anyone from the thread and I don't want to send the thread to the wasteland, so whilst I'm sure you want to discuss the subject, please do so without directly offending forum members.
Just a reminder. This is an EMTB forum. I know this subject is frustrating for many of you and the situation itself is extremely difficult.
But, please at least try to keep things civil.
We don't generally allow much political discussion as it always ends up going in the same direction. I don't want to ban anyone from the thread and I don't want to send the thread to the wasteland, so whilst I'm sure you want to discuss the subject, please do so without directly offending forum members.
I'd say these days it's 50/50 jct and nec. More so nec if you also work in civils.
Clients and main contractors are hiding behind force majeure, that's the problem. It gives time but no costs. So when the projects are thrown into chaos with delay and disruption. Sometimes by their doing, sometimes by other subcontractors, covid or good old contracting delays they are just using this as an excuse not to pay.
Like R120 my work is also with mainly tier 1 contractors with blue chip clients etc (who are trying desperately to run safe sites but IMO it's almost impossible) and believe me they aren't so willing to give their money away.
I know one project has agreed an eot with just shy of £1m recovery but they are telling supply chain FM - time no cost. We've been delayed by another contractor by issues which were pre covid then compounded by it which is costing us approx £350k.
So it's all going to get a bit tricky as all these scenarios unfold.
These aren't hard nose clients, they are repeat order good clients.
You should see some of the stunts some of the less reputable / notorious hard nose clients are pulling ?
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Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
Arse. My business WAS REQUIRED.
Without us looking after the systems used to input the test results, to translate the data and to send the results back to the GPs or hospitals having a swab stuck up your nasal orrifice is pretty much a waste of a swab. Same as the sparkys, plumbers etc that keep the hospitals running - or the people that just clean everything down.
How about the farmers that grow the food to feed us? The truck drivers that distribute it around the country?
And so on, and so on.
The problem is not necessarily the running of construction sites, but the ability of the industry to work under the current situation, simply because its expected to be business as usual, but with a bit of allowance for Covid.
This means that there people are put at risk due to money taking precedence over safety right now, when it should be the other way round. It is perfectly possible to work reasonably safely under the current regulations, but this is not being done and most importantly not being universally done across building sites, and that IMO is the problem.
I also feel that a lot of people in the construction industry are pretty vulnerable to getting a bad case of Covid, simply because years of ambivalence to proper PPE across the construction industry means there are a lot fo people on site who have spent a decade or more fucking their lungs from inhalation of nasty shit due to not wearing the proper ppe in the first place.
There are two separate issues really, how to work safely, and how to deal with the inevitable delays, they are intertwined but often treated separately contractually. If they are not viewed in conjunction with each other, then people are at risk both financially and from a health perspective.
The issue with Force Majeure in a construction contract context, in the simplest way possible because there are multiple factors, is that because the Government has said building works can continue, its is down to common sense if it is applied and accepted. In most cases it is obvious that a contract needs to be paused if the contractor simply cannot execute the job due to supply and staffing issues, however if the CA/Client is not willing to accept this then there is a problem.
If the Government halted construction work then Force Majeure clauses would be very clear to implement, however as they have not it is a case of a contractor justifying use of the cause due to inability to continue the job due to circumstances out side of their control, such as inability to get supplies, workforce down etc, and the contractor administrator, and also clients acceptance of this.
What we have seen is that some CA's/Clients have taken the line that because the Government hasn't halted construction that FM is not applicable, and refused to accept any shut down that has financial consequences for the client, and this was particularly prevalent during the first lockdown, especially with institutional clients and large developers.
In my case all projects commenced since the outbreak of Covid have had extensive clauses relating to the virus put into the contracts to outline how to deal with any Covid related issues, and whilst the implementation of these clauses doesn't result in either side getting a "win" out of the situation, they do hopefully result in neither party getting a "loss", or rather a kick in the balls!
The simple thing with construction, is that the biggest cost is time, based off the programme to execute elements of work, and the labor cost to do so - the construction industry is set up so that work is undertaken at the maximum safest speed possible, with trades scheduled, and deliveries programmed to reflect this. The biggest impact of Covid is the inability to do this. At the moment I would say across my sites the impact to programme in terms of purely working under Covid safe guidelines, and assuming you have no supply chain/subcontractor issues, is that it takes 4 weeks to do what would have taken 3 weeks within a normal programme, so effectively we are working a 4 day week in terms of viable man-hours.
What Covid has done, and now also Brexit to a lesser extent, is make it almost impossible to accurately programme a job - and because financial penalties within contracts are primarily based off hitting programs and schedules, this means that unless the impact of Covid is accounted for contractually, huge penalties can be accrued quickly. Add into this if a client is funding the job through lending which is heavily leverages, then they themselves will be facing huge costs if the lender won't accommodate the situation.
A good example on one of my jobs would be that we are on a large residential build, single dwelling. Aprx 104 week programme that commence early 2019, original completion date Jan 2021. The build is now nearly done, and everything was on programme pre covid, however we are now looking at a late May best completion date, simply because the programme for the remainder of the job is shot due to joiners unable to deliver packages on time due to covid, delays to stone finishes coming from Europe, and decorators and finishing trades isolating due to Covid. Now this job has circa 15k a week liquidated damages the contractor would be liable for, meaning that if the letter of the contract (agreed pre covid) was applied, the contractor would be looking at hundreds of thousand of pounds worth of damages based off the delays. We are lucky on this job that the client is desperate to get back into the house, and maintain the quality of the build, and financial arrangements have been made to allow this.
Now luckily on this job sense has prevailed and a series of EOT's agreed, but there are many jobs where this is not the case, and the contractors are having to carry on, pushing to regain time which can only be done by ignoring covid working practices, to try and minimise potential losses, because the client/CA is basically an areshole.
What this means is that these contractors are not carrying on to try and make money, they are having to work to try and minimise loosing money, and even though a main contractor may be covered by a good client and sensible CA, this usually doesn't really help the subcontractors further down the food chain.
So the long and short of it for us is that if a client is onboard with us all working together safely to get he project done, and agrees to the reality that the job will cost more, we can get the job done, but if not then there are big problems.
This means that there people are put at risk due to money taking precedence over safety right now, when it should be the other way round. It is perfectly possible to work reasonably safely under the current regulations, but this is not being done and most importantly not being universally done across building sites, and that IMO is the problem.
I also feel that a lot of people in the construction industry are pretty vulnerable to getting a bad case of Covid, simply because years of ambivalence to proper PPE across the construction industry means there are a lot fo people on site who have spent a decade or more fucking their lungs from inhalation of nasty shit due to not wearing the proper ppe in the first place.
There are two separate issues really, how to work safely, and how to deal with the inevitable delays, they are intertwined but often treated separately contractually. If they are not viewed in conjunction with each other, then people are at risk both financially and from a health perspective.
The issue with Force Majeure in a construction contract context, in the simplest way possible because there are multiple factors, is that because the Government has said building works can continue, its is down to common sense if it is applied and accepted. In most cases it is obvious that a contract needs to be paused if the contractor simply cannot execute the job due to supply and staffing issues, however if the CA/Client is not willing to accept this then there is a problem.
If the Government halted construction work then Force Majeure clauses would be very clear to implement, however as they have not it is a case of a contractor justifying use of the cause due to inability to continue the job due to circumstances out side of their control, such as inability to get supplies, workforce down etc, and the contractor administrator, and also clients acceptance of this.
What we have seen is that some CA's/Clients have taken the line that because the Government hasn't halted construction that FM is not applicable, and refused to accept any shut down that has financial consequences for the client, and this was particularly prevalent during the first lockdown, especially with institutional clients and large developers.
In my case all projects commenced since the outbreak of Covid have had extensive clauses relating to the virus put into the contracts to outline how to deal with any Covid related issues, and whilst the implementation of these clauses doesn't result in either side getting a "win" out of the situation, they do hopefully result in neither party getting a "loss", or rather a kick in the balls!
The simple thing with construction, is that the biggest cost is time, based off the programme to execute elements of work, and the labor cost to do so - the construction industry is set up so that work is undertaken at the maximum safest speed possible, with trades scheduled, and deliveries programmed to reflect this. The biggest impact of Covid is the inability to do this. At the moment I would say across my sites the impact to programme in terms of purely working under Covid safe guidelines, and assuming you have no supply chain/subcontractor issues, is that it takes 4 weeks to do what would have taken 3 weeks within a normal programme, so effectively we are working a 4 day week in terms of viable man-hours.
What Covid has done, and now also Brexit to a lesser extent, is make it almost impossible to accurately programme a job - and because financial penalties within contracts are primarily based off hitting programs and schedules, this means that unless the impact of Covid is accounted for contractually, huge penalties can be accrued quickly. Add into this if a client is funding the job through lending which is heavily leverages, then they themselves will be facing huge costs if the lender won't accommodate the situation.
A good example on one of my jobs would be that we are on a large residential build, single dwelling. Aprx 104 week programme that commence early 2019, original completion date Jan 2021. The build is now nearly done, and everything was on programme pre covid, however we are now looking at a late May best completion date, simply because the programme for the remainder of the job is shot due to joiners unable to deliver packages on time due to covid, delays to stone finishes coming from Europe, and decorators and finishing trades isolating due to Covid. Now this job has circa 15k a week liquidated damages the contractor would be liable for, meaning that if the letter of the contract (agreed pre covid) was applied, the contractor would be looking at hundreds of thousand of pounds worth of damages based off the delays. We are lucky on this job that the client is desperate to get back into the house, and maintain the quality of the build, and financial arrangements have been made to allow this.
Now luckily on this job sense has prevailed and a series of EOT's agreed, but there are many jobs where this is not the case, and the contractors are having to carry on, pushing to regain time which can only be done by ignoring covid working practices, to try and minimise potential losses, because the client/CA is basically an areshole.
What this means is that these contractors are not carrying on to try and make money, they are having to work to try and minimise loosing money, and even though a main contractor may be covered by a good client and sensible CA, this usually doesn't really help the subcontractors further down the food chain.
So the long and short of it for us is that if a client is onboard with us all working together safely to get he project done, and agrees to the reality that the job will cost more, we can get the job done, but if not then there are big problems.
Moving back to the main topic, one thing I have really noticed, is the difference between what i see and experience up in London, and around where I live in Surrey.
In London right now it feels like a ghost town, very few people out an about, pretty much every adult you see is wearing a mask, and there is an intangible sense of doom about he whole place, ablate alleviated by the inevitable resilience of human nature to look on the bright side where possible. London has been decimated by this, I have many friends and family still there, and I don't know any of them who hast been infected, or having to self isolate right now.
Whereas if I go out for a dog walk round here, no on wearing masks, multiple family groups meeting up, and really very little difference to how people are behaving to pre lockdown, aside from the obvious implications of the new rules.
I grew up in London, and lived there for 30 years, but what I see there now is genuinely scary, the atmosphere is horrible, and I look at what its like there, and how it is back in Surrey, and pray we dont each that point out here, because the reality is once this new strain takes hold of an area, it spreads like wildfire.
I know the vast majority of UK members of the forum dont have London on their radar outside of the news, but having spent time their recently its had a major effect on my attitude to taking precautions and not pushing the rules.
In London right now it feels like a ghost town, very few people out an about, pretty much every adult you see is wearing a mask, and there is an intangible sense of doom about he whole place, ablate alleviated by the inevitable resilience of human nature to look on the bright side where possible. London has been decimated by this, I have many friends and family still there, and I don't know any of them who hast been infected, or having to self isolate right now.
Whereas if I go out for a dog walk round here, no on wearing masks, multiple family groups meeting up, and really very little difference to how people are behaving to pre lockdown, aside from the obvious implications of the new rules.
I grew up in London, and lived there for 30 years, but what I see there now is genuinely scary, the atmosphere is horrible, and I look at what its like there, and how it is back in Surrey, and pray we dont each that point out here, because the reality is once this new strain takes hold of an area, it spreads like wildfire.
I know the vast majority of UK members of the forum dont have London on their radar outside of the news, but having spent time their recently its had a major effect on my attitude to taking precautions and not pushing the rules.
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