Let’s talk about PERFORMANCE ebikes

[Eddy Current]

The kind of ebikes wich range, comfort, all rounder water bottle fitting and even price don’t matter. This about the ebikes you would choose to race and set a clock.

As far I know (or I think I know ?) these are some (full motor power)

Lapierre GLP2
Pivot Shuttle
RM Powerplay
Whyte E
Norco VTL
Santacruz
Canyon Spectral ON
Intense Tazer
YT Decoy
Orbea Wild
Mondraker Crafty

Im based on specs and linkagedesign leverage ratios. Weight and trust on reviews, users and even brand own statement about the ebike. But I want to made clear they are supposed because to me is impossible ride all.

Discuss amigos. You can add or take off the lis and what an e-performance means to you, or you own experiences and feeling trying them. I know also there are different trails and scenarios so let’s imagine a mix or if you prefer try to fit them on their natural enviroments.

Merry CHRISTmas!

 

[CBSTD]

Ok I’ll bite, how come no Sheeplized ?

 

[Eddy Current]

Ok I’ll bite, how come no Sheeplized ?

I tell you why. Levo dont have an appealing geo, but overall suspension is not enough progressive based on linkage analysis. Even the Kenevo. Whyte and Norco LT ebikes are more on the “performance” side

 

[CBSTD]

I tell you why. Levo dont have an appealing geo, but overall suspension is not enough progressive based on linkage analysis. Even the Kenevo. Whyte and Norco LT ebikes are more on the “performance” side

As I’ve always suspected overpriced and underspeced

 

[Rahr85]

Race in what context?

for mostly downhill i'm sure someone with actual talent unllike myself could make my whyte e180 rs fly down a hill but the sheer weight of it has to be a bigger issue when you would actually try to use it in something like EWS with uphill stages.

For casual use i can't fault it on the trail. I can get it up to about 16/17mph on the flat but any speed above that requires exponentially more effort to overcome friction/weight caused by the tyres + overall bike weight to the point of not wanting to bother. On something like sherwood pines (not much elevation gain) i was about 37min vs 47m on my analogue bike. I gain huge chunks on the few uphill sections but i reckon i can hit closer to 20mph on the flat on a non e bike. Cannock chase on the other hand i was able to smash my previous times because not only was i substantially faster on the longer climbs, the suspension gave me the confidence to really attack the downhill too, it was still crap on the flat sections

For me everything on a bike is some level of compromise, you have to get the best compromise for the setting that it will be used in most often.

 

[BrentD]

The kind of ebikes wich range, comfort, all rounder water bottle fitting and even price don’t matter. This about the ebikes you would choose to race and set a clock.

As far I know (or I think I know ?) these are some (full motor power)

Lapierre GLP2
Pivot Shuttle
RM Powerplay
Whyte E
Norco VTL
Santacruz
Canyon Spectral ON
Intense Tazer
YT Decoy
Orbea Wild
Mondraker Crafty

Im based on specs and linkagedesign leverage ratios. Weight and trust on reviews, users and even brand own statement about the ebike. But I want to made clear they are supposed because to me is impossible ride all.

Discuss amigos. You can add or take off the lis and what an e-performance means to you, or you own experiences and feeling trying them. I know also there are different trails and scenarios so let’s imagine a mix or if you prefer try to fit them on their natural enviroments.

Merry CHRISTmas!

Tracey Mosley seems to do well on the Trek Rail.

 

[jk-]

Use the serach function, and honestly RESEARCH yourself on what bike u want. To many posts like these

 

[Mark45acp]

I recommend the Liteville301CE Pro - EP8 motor 630 wh battery - top grade carbon frame . Syntace parts and wheels, XT drive and brakes Magic Marys and the excellent 8 pins dropper

 

[Gary]

E-Ride

www.ktm.com

You'd be an idiot to buy any bike with a Shimano motor if the facade of "racing" against other Ebikes was of high priority in your reasons for purchase. So that halves your list.

 

[Sean1.0]

I have one of those and can confirm it would win a race against my emtb.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

E-Ride

www.ktm.com

You'd be an idiot to buy any bike with a Shimano motor if the facade of "racing" against other Ebikes was of high priority in your reasons for purchase. So that halves your list.

Love the e racing or hate it, I’m interested to see what happens with the EWS ‘power’ stages with the rider on the EP8 bikes vs Bosch. Obvs the Bosch riders have a big power advance.

 

[Gary]

@Rob Rides EMTB

Oh... I'd be interested enough to watch for sure.. But to me the results and titles that go along with EMTB racing are completely pointless because of the unfair playing field.
I'd also definitely watch road racing again if there were no doping regulations.

I don't actually hate anything about bikes or racing them certain components and frames are mildly frustrating tho. ?

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Oh... I'd be interested enough to watch for sure.. But to me the results and titles that go along with EMTB racing are completely pointless because of the unfair playing field.

I agree with this to a point. And 100% appreciate your view based on a history of racing normal bikes.

But I see the e-bike racing more like motorsport. It creates competition for both man and machine. So its about the riders and more so the bikes. Which hopefully will only improve the bikes through development and competition between the manufacturers.

I just see it as a completely different genre to the normal bike racing, so pointless comparing it to the normal EWS series. And should be taken as such. IMO

 

[Gary]

I see it as a big publicity gain for the manufacturers and an easy money maker for it's organisers.

it's neither motorsport or cycling.

The only way to make it fair from a cycling perspective would be if all bikes had the exact same motor and tuning options and even then there would be a small advantage increase for lighter riders. the only way to make it a motorsport would be to remove the pedalling input. it's not like we have a flintstones category in motor racing.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

It's always going to split opinions being somewhere between both disciplines. Either way, on a personal note I find it interesting and hope we see the benefit of better tech / bikes down the line.

Flintstone cat would soap box would it not!?

Can race anything dude

 

[thewildblue]

I have one of those and can confirm it would win a race against my emtb.

My friend has one of these also, they are superb fun to ride and the 5-40mph is pretty much instant. On the right trail though I can gap him if I'm in front from the start, but only on the really narrow twisty bits, everywhere you cant even smell the fumes.. ;-)...lol.

 

[R120]

If my interpretation of what the OP is asking, which is that which EMTB's have been designed prioritising performance over practicality, I think that the only EMTB that has been designed with "racing" in mind, is the La Pierre GLP, which was designed with significant input from Nico Vouillioz to be what his idea of the best handling EMTB he could ride in EWS-E , and where they deliberately went for the smaller external battery to aid weight placement and keep weight down.

IMO most other EMTB's compromise in design are more related to the brand transferring their existing suspension and frame designs over to EMTB's and finding that adding a battery into the mix means compromising on having room for a water bottle etc etc.

Of course many EMTB's are based off regular Enduro bikes, so may well have had some sort of racing potential in their thinking in their DNA - however if I was racing a Trek Rail for example, pretty sure I would be using the small internal battery rather than the bigger one it comes with to keep weight down.


Nico's bike:

 

[Gary]

Flintstone cat would soap box would it not!?

No.

Soap box cart racing's equivalent in cycling is chainless DH racing which is already a thing.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

No.

Soap box cart racing's equivalent in cycling is chainless DH racing which is already a thing.

is it!? I'll take your word for it mate

 

[RickBullotta]

I have one of those and can confirm it would win a race against my emtb.

I have a couple KTMs also and I know a few trails where my Pivot Shuttle would definitely be faster! On many technical downhill segments a regular bike is going to be the fastest for sure. It would be fun to see how fast one of the hard enduro/WESS pros could get down a World Cup DH circuit. My guess it that the MTBs beat them by quite a bit.

 

[RickBullotta]

Love the e racing or hate it, I’m interested to see what happens with the EWS ‘power’ stages with the rider on the EP8 bikes vs Bosch. Obvs the Bosch riders have a big power advance.

...and like most forms of motorsport, finding the small advantages (read: cheating) will be pervasive...

I really think that only a "spec series" can work at present. Either the same bike or at a minimum the same battery/motor.

 

[Mteam]

I have a couple KTMs also and I know a few trails where my Pivot Shuttle would definitely be faster! On many technical downhill segments a regular bike is going to be the fastest for sure. It would be fun to see how fast one of the hard enduro/WESS pros could get down a World Cup DH circuit. My guess it that the MTBs beat them by quite a bit.

here you go

ENDURO vs MTB Downhill || David Knight vs Gee Atherton BEST RACE !! 2015 - YouTube

 

[RickBullotta]

here you go

ENDURO vs MTB Downhill || David Knight vs Gee Atherton BEST RACE !! 2015 - YouTube

And Knighter's no slouch. Not a ton of tight/steep/wet woods on that track - which would have definitely helped Gee even more!

Thanks for sharing!

 

[cappuccino34]

If EWS-E races were limited to a maximum battery capacity and of a duration long enough to deplete said battery when using high power modes then it would become more competitive across motors/batteries/makes.

 

[Gary]

Not really.
It's just favour certain motors and lighter riders even more.

 

[cappuccino34]

Why would it favour certain motors? They'll all be very similar in terms of efficiency, so the ones being used to give more output would have empty batteries before the finish. It will become an energy management race then, just like any endurance event, be that running, cycling or Le-Mans.

As it is it very, very much favours a more powerful motor with a light battery.

Any sport involving a rider or driver favours a lighter one. EWS-E will already does anyway.

 

[RickBullotta]

Why would it favour certain motors? They'll all be very similar in terms of efficiency, so the ones being used to give more output would have empty batteries before the finish. It will become an energy management race then, just like any endurance event, be that running, cycling or Le-Mans.

As it is it very, very much favours a more powerful motor with a light battery.

Any sport involving a rider or driver favours a lighter one. EWS-E will already does anyway.

I encountered this when racing Levos on an E8000 equipped bike. They have a higher point where assist cuts off (prior to the regulatory limit), thus had a significant advantage on fast open areas. I pedaled my ass off to try to make up the differential. Almost pulled it off. Almost. ;-)

 

[cappuccino34]

I encountered this when racing Levos on an E8000 equipped bike. They have a higher point where assist cuts off (prior to the regulatory limit), thus had a significant advantage on fast open areas. I pedaled my ass off to try to make up the differential. Almost pulled it off. Almost. ;-)

If everyone was limited to, say 360 Wh batteries, for example, the powerful motors would have to dial it back then or they'd get mugged at the end.
They have fuel capacity limits (used to be 120Litres, now it's 100Litres) in endurance racing for the same reason. "yes you can have 600hp if you want sunshine but you'll lose all that speed advantage sat in the pits doing fuel stops". Except with e-bikes it would be "you're on pedal-power only at the end".

 

[RickBullotta]

If everyone was limited to, say 360 Wh batteries, for example, the powerful motors would have to dial it back then or they'd get mugged at the end.
They have fuel capacity limits (used to be 120Litres, now it's 100Litres) in endurance racing for the same reason. "yes you can have 600hp if you want sunshine but you'll lose all that speed advantage sat in the pits doing fuel stops". Except with e-bikes it would be "you're on pedal-power only at the end".

Yup. The race I did was one hour of all out effort. Even then, the Levos with a 700 battery vs 504 had a distinct advantage. I brought it home in the red zone!

 

[#lazy]

Derestrict all of them would be much better to race and watch !