Having plus tyre issues.... is anyone using a "Huck Norris, Cushcore or a vittoria air liner?"

[Thewootts]

Good day,

I'm loving my E-bike but its my first plus tyre bike. I am really struggling with my tyre setup.

The Butcher grids that came with it were grippy enough i guess at low pressures the issue was they had zero support when pushing in corners and I tore the side walls twice in 3 rides. if i run the pressures high enough so they give the support i want and prevent destroying the side walls, the only way i can describe it is being in pinball machine the bike just pings and bounces off everything. At speed It's very sketchy.

I purchased a set of 120tpi minions 27.5x2.8 with the exo skin, as on my DH those tyres are fantastic.

Tonight was the first ride on the Maxxis . I started at 25psi literally hopped over the side on my first run popped off a root caught a rock and pinched the tyre putting a 2mm gash in the top and 1mm'ish gash literally just on top of the bead.

To say I was pissed was an understatement...

I am on the fence with either lacing a set of DH rims on the bike and running 2.4 tyres, or using some kind of cushcore variant.

Seeing the inserts are more expensive than a tyre for is what essentially a pool noodle. Just wondered if anyone has had the same dilemma and what route they took?

And are the inserts worth the money

Thanks

 

[Gary]

at low pressures the issue was they had zero support when pushing in corners and I tore the side walls twice in 3 rides. if i run the pressures high enough so they give the support i want and prevent destroying the side walls, the only way i can describe it is being in pinball machine the bike just pings and bounces off everything. At speed It's very sketchy.

This is exactly why plus tyres generally suck.
to not have these traits each tyre would have to weigh around 1500g.

Just ditch plus tyres. There's absolutely no need to ever run bigger than a 2.5 tyre unless you want to ride on sand.

You don't say what rims you have but dispite what folk would have you believe a 2.5 is fine on a 30-35mm internal width rim

 

[thebarber]

Try rat bites, £18 each.
Can't vouch for them but just put one in the rear so let's see eh!!

 

[Thewootts]

I'm guessing plus tyres are ideal for a certain type of rider. Maybe just not me...


Its amazing how different they feel from a 2.4. the volume difference isn't that much bigger... not like its like running a proper 4" fatboy tyre.

 

[Thewootts]

Try rat bites, £18 each.
Can't vouch for them but just put one in the rear so let's see eh!!

Thanks ill check them out.

 

[R120]

I am with Gary on this one, i don't think you need to go more than 2.4/2.5 on an EMTB unless you have specific reasons.

I have been running Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5 3C/TR that came on my Vitus for 800 miles now, still tubed and at about 22psi, not one puncture and never wanted for grip.

If you are able too easily i would try a narrower set up to see if you like it. I know a number of people who are running narrower tyre now on their Kenevo/Levo's (presume you have a Spesh?)

 

[Doomanic]

Here's what works for me;
Front; 2.6" Magic Mary TL @24psi, no insert. Not the DH carcass that some seem to like. (1.4kg for a tyre? No thanks!)
Rear; 2.8" Maxxis Minion DHR2 TL @24psi, Ratbite insert.

The DHR2 is a recent addition after I ripped a Nobby Nic but the Mary has been on for a while and I'm very happy with it.

Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5

What's the actual width as fitted to your bike?

I might, might, try something narrower when the going gets sloppy but I've got a pair of 2.8" Marys to try first. The only other tyres I've got to try are 2.35 WTB Vigilantes and they didn't work for me on my Nukeproof so I've no reason to think they'll be any better on my Trek.

 

[Thewootts]

I was so close to ordering 2.4's but i had visions of them not fitting the 40mm rim correctly and squaring off the side tread...

 

[Gary]

40mm rim

hmm...

I'd be replacing that rim with something 30mm max.
I'm guessing you don't build your own wheels though

 

[Al Boneta]

I run Cushcore and I can’t ride without them. They give me all of the sidewall support I need, protect my carbon rims and allow me to run even lower air pressures for even more grip. I haven’t had a flat in over a decade, so I can’t vouch for flat protection, but you can ride on a flat tire with Cushcore

 

[drjarvis2003]

This has been a big thing with me over the last few months. First off, I tried huck Norris in 2.8 minions and damaged a rim beyond repair. Next tried magic Mary's 2.8 with ratbite and another damaged rim and then tried magic Mary's with vittoria air liners and the tread split and lost all the air, but this time, it allowed me to complete the run and then a mile back to the van on the air liner alone, so at least you can still ride it. No damage to the insert or rim this time. I'm now testing out 2.6 magic mary dh with tubes, so far and so far so good. I will need to put inserts in, because I can hear the rims ding already, even though the are over 1400 g and dual ply. I can feel the weight of the dh tyres slow the bike on the uphill though. I'm only 65 kilos. Shimano motor. Hope this helps.

 

[Donnie797]

I would like to try the cushcores cause i hear much good about them, but 200 bucks for a bit of foam material is against my principles. Something in the middle of ratbites and cushcores / huck norris would be fine...

 

[drjarvis2003]

I would be careful about huck Norris. As above, I damaged a rim with them in. I know some people swear by cush core, but I have spoken to someone who dinged a rim with one in and I also think someone from here has also done it.

 

[Donnie797]

Well, in the end it's all physics and if the impact is sharp and hard enough, those foam inserts will be squished like nothing. If somebody is having rim dings on a regular basis i would vote for a DH tyre with a strong sidewall + insert + increased pressure. Another (obvious) thing is the riding style - less aggressive, smoother line choice, pre jumping and avoidig landings on nasty rocks/roots...

What kind of impact was it, that damaged your rim with huck norris?

 

[drjarvis2003]

It was a rock garden. We are mostly on enduro style runs, so not always that fast when they get really steep and techy.

 

[Thewootts]

hmm...

I'd be replacing that rim with something 30mm max.
I'm guessing you don't build your own wheels though

Wheel building is the only thing I can't do. I normally lace up the spokes and chuck in the local bmx shop for the final bit.

I think i'm gonna stick a set of Hope DH rims on. bang for buck they have served me well in the past.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

This has been a big thing with me over the last few months. First off, I tried huck Norris in 2.8 minions and damaged a rim beyond repair. Next tried magic Mary's 2.8 with ratbite and another damaged rim and then tried magic Mary's with vittoria air liners and the tread split and lost all the air, but this time, it allowed me to complete the run and then a mile back to the van on the air liner alone, so at least you can still ride it. No damage to the insert or rim this time. I'm now testing out 2.6 magic mary dh with tubes, so far and so far so good. I will need to put inserts in, because I can hear the rims ding already, even though the are over 1400 g and dual ply. I can feel the weight of the dh tyres slow the bike on the uphill though. I'm only 65 kilos. Shimano motor. Hope this helps.

Hi @drjarvis2003 what psi are you running in the MMs?

 

[drjarvis2003]

15 on the front and 16 or 17 on the back.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

15 on the front and 16 or 17 on the back.

I ran 17 to 18 front and rear in the 2.6 DH Ultrasoft but just recently changed to a much high psi front and rear just to see if I would lose grip and have found that they actual rail round corners much better now and rock gardens are point and shoot even more than they were before. Currently running 25psi, thanks for the advice @Gary the higher psi works a treat ?
I was recently running a MM 2.8 Soft with 20 psi and pinch punctured putting 2 x 5mm holes last week. Got rid and back to the MM 2.6 Ultras

 

[drjarvis2003]

I ran 17 to 18 front and rear in the 2.6 DH Ultrasoft but just recently changed to a much high psi front and rear just to see if I would lose grip and have found that they actual rail round corners much better now and rock gardens are point and shoot even more than they were before. Currently running 25psi, thanks for the advice @Gary the higher psi works a treat ?
I was recently running a MM 2.8 Soft with 20 psi and pinch punctured putting 2 x 5mm holes last week. Got rid and back to the MM 2.6 Ultras

I'm only 65kg, so have to run a bit lower than most people. What weight are you?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

I'm only 65kg, so have to run a bit lower than most people. What weight are you?

71kg all kitted up.
If you are smashing through rock gardens then you will need to raise the psi. The MM Ultra Softs are mega grippy so you don’t need to run them at super low pressures. I see you are in Scotland so the terrain is going to be fairly rocky in places.
Remember, an ebike is carrying a lot more weight so it will affect how a tyre performs when you are smashing it through the trails. Try 24psi in both as a test, you might be pleasantly surprised on how well they perform.

 

[Gary]

No probs mate. I don't run the same pressure front and rear though, I always run a few Psi more in the rear. there's more weight going through your rear tyre (I'm a rear weight biased rider so even more so for me) so you need a little more pressure to give the same level of sidewall support, you also don't really want more grip on the rear than the front and you do want better rolling speed from your rear tyre. running a higher pressure has all of these benefits.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

No probs mate. I don't run the same pressure front and rear though, I always run a few Psi more in the rear. there's more weight going through your rear tyre (I'm a rear weight biased rider so even more so for me) so you need a little more pressure to give the same level of sidewall support, you also don't really want more grip on the rear than the front and you do want better rolling speed from your rear tyre. running a higher pressure has all of these benefits.

Hi @Gary
Understood and makes sense.
What do you recommend for the rear if I am running 25psi in the front? 27, 28, 29?

 

[Gary]

Trial and error mate.
Without seeing you in real life and seeing how and what you ride I wouldn't like to give you any actual recommendations.
You need to find the sweetspot yourself. What you're looking for is compromise between going too soft and having poor sidewall support and too firm and reducing grip.
but yes. a few psi more. and the difference becomes larger the heavier and more rear wheel bias a riding style you have.
Obviously a larger volume tyre can be run at less pressure so if there's a mismatch in tyre widths front to rear you also need make allowances either way for that too.

 

[drjarvis2003]

71kg all kitted up.
If you are smashing through rock gardens then you will need to raise the psi. The MM Ultra Softs are mega grippy so you don’t need to run them at super low pressures. I see you are in Scotland so the terrain is going to be fairly rocky in places.
Remember, an ebike is carrying a lot more weight so it will affect how a tyre performs when you are smashing it through the trails. Try 24psi in both as a test, you might be pleasantly surprised on how well they perform.

I will look into more psi then. I'm now waiting for the correct size air liners to arrive and will play about with pressure then, although I might not need to go to high with them in.

 

[Jam2Ride]

Nextie carbon rims 40 internal.. Maxis minions 2.8 60tpi exo 3c maxxterra .. Huck norris insert front and rear.. Zero issues..

I'm 110kg and run 21psi front and 26rear

Those 120tpi tires you got are the thinner lighter versions.. They are weak mate

 

[Thewootts]

Those 120tpi tires you got are the thinner lighter versions.. They are weak mate

I always made the assumption that 120tpi was a the thicker harder casing, using the logic more threads per inch. Every day is school day i guess.

I think the issue is with E-bikes is clearly there are some quite good riders that given a normal (non E-bike situation) would not go near a plus tyre and they are learning a frustrating expensive lesson.

With all the issues folk are having with plus size tyres, on long travel bikes like the kenevo with 180mm, why they bother fitting them??. surly during product testing they must have found this is a massive weakness.

I for one given the choice would have went for DH rims and tyres from the get go.

Actually i probabbly would have went + size i regretted it from ride one

 

[Jam2Ride]

I prefer plus on 27.5 wheelsize with a nice wide rim 39-40mm internal width.. Or a 2.5- 2.6 29er on a 30-33mm internal width

Its all a compromise, with the ebike i choose the strongest / heavy tyre with most aggressive tread... Grid butcher or Maxxis Minion.... 21psi front 26psi rear huck norris inserts

On the 29er I go for lighter weight better rolling 30psi rear 26 front no inserts

112kg fat rider... aggressive riding