Garmin watch data field for Shimano STEPS EMTBs

[rb.]

Which watch is that?

It is the Vivoactive 3 Music. On sale for under $200 on the garmin website. Does everything my Apple Watch and Garmin 520 did before I believe. Only concern is battery life while using the gps mode, but we shall see how that goes once I get more time with it.

 

[mark.ai]

Got the watch and it appears to be connected and showing my battery percentage as intended. Awesome!

Nice - and cool watch

By the way you can change the "STEPS EMTB" text to whatever you like (if you can find the settings in Garmin Express or Garmin Connect Mobile)

 

[rb.]

I have a question for @mark.ai, or maybe someone else has experienced this, but today on my ride my watch app would not connect to my bike for the whole ride. But when I tried just now at home it connected in less than 5 seconds.

When I started there was no cell service and the watch didn’t have a gps signal right away. Should this be a problem? My gps started working down the trail a ways, but the “steps” app never seemed to connect even though there was a Bluetooth symbol on my e7000 display the whole time.

 

[mark.ai]

I have a question for @mark.ai, or maybe someone else has experienced this, but today on my ride my watch app would not connect to my bike for the whole ride. But when I tried just now at home it connected in less than 5 seconds.

When I started there was no cell service and the watch didn’t have a gps signal right away. Should this be a problem? My gps started working down the trail a ways, but the “steps” app never seemed to connect even though there was a Bluetooth symbol on my e7000 display the whole time.

It shouldn't be related at all to cell or gps signal.

I have occasionally seen the STEPS EMTB data field failing to connect, but I'm not sure where the issue occurs: the bike, the watch or the datafield. Switching through the assist modes on the bike can sometimes trigger the connection - like the bike suddenly wakes up and starts sending signals.

If you see this again at the start of the activity, then I would try backing out of the activity on the watch, holding the watch close to the E7000 display so the signal is strong, and then start the activity, so the datafield will try connecting again.

I'm wondering actually if it was displaying "Scan" and the increasing number, or just displaying nothing at all?

 

[rb.]

It shouldn't be related at all to cell or gps signal.

I have occasionally seen the STEPS EMTB data field failing to connect, but I'm not sure where the issue occurs: the bike, the watch or the datafield. Switching through the assist modes on the bike can sometimes trigger the connection - like the bike suddenly wakes up and starts sending signals.

If you see this again at the start of the activity, then I would try backing out of the activity on the watch, holding the watch close to the E7000 display so the signal is strong, and then start the activity, so the datafield will try connecting again.

I'm wondering actually if it was displaying "Scan" and the increasing number, or just displaying nothing at all?

It was displaying “scan” and the number kept increasing throughout the ride.

 

[R120]

Ok, so finally got a watch it works on - silly question but I have no experience with these things, how to I access/find the data filed on the watch? I have downloaded in from the connect store. Watch is Vivoactive 3 Music

 

[mark.ai]

Ok, so finally got a watch it works on - silly question but I have no experience with these things, how to I access/find the data filed on the watch? I have downloaded in from the connect store. Watch is Vivoactive 3 Music

Cool

My first thought is - it's complicated!

What you will want to do is modify the datafields for an activity (it's a datafield so only gets displayed when you have an activity running). E.g. you might already have (or might want to make) an EMTB activity - and add it to that. (Or just try adding it to any activity).

Note that even when you are customizing the datafields for an activity when you add the "STEPS EMTB" field then it should try connecting to your bike.

This is the manual page which might be the best explanation: vívoactive 3 Music - Customizing the Data Screens

The "STEPS EMTB" field will be listed under "ConnectIQ Fields"

 

[mark.ai]

It was displaying “scan” and the number kept increasing throughout the ride.

Hmm yep so it wasn't connecting - if that happens again you could try just powering the bike off and on again and that might then connect. Or alternatively exit the activity and enter it again (if you've just started it and don't mind restarting it).

 

[R120]

Cool

My first thought is - it's complicated!

What you will want to do is modify the datafields for an activity (it's a datafield so only gets displayed when you have an activity running). E.g. you might already have (or might want to make) an EMTB activity - and add it to that. (Or just try adding it to any activity).

Note that even when you are customizing the datafields for an activity when you add the "STEPS EMTB" field then it should try connecting to your bike.

This is the manual page which might be the best explanation: vívoactive 3 Music - Customizing the Data Screens

The "STEPS EMTB" field will be listed under "ConnectIQ Fields"

Thanks Mark

Figured it out just after I posted, and been out for a quick blast, connected straight away to the bike - this has been the final step in creating my ultimate set up, I can now see the mode and battery life on my watch, and nothing on the handlebars! Great work, super stoked on it, even if it took me buying 2 watches to get it to work!

 

[squeegee]

So I tried this too, got a renewed vivoactive 3 music off amazon for $165 usd, it works perfectly.
To be noted, today experiemented running down the battery and it died at 8% instead of 0%, just something to know.

 

[mark.ai]

To be noted, today experiemented running down the battery and it died at 8% instead of 0%, just something to know.

I wonder if the "lowest" battery percent depends on how old & used the battery is? Originally when I got my bike I remember it going below 2% before stopping, and then recently it died at around 5%. I have a feeling it may depend on the assist mode too, and if you wait a while then turn the bike back on in eco it may work a bit longer ...

 

[mark.ai]

Also: has anyone successfully used the STEPS EMTB datafield with either a Vivoactive 4 or Venu watch? I've had a couple of reports of people unable to connect, but I'm not sure what the problem is yet ...

 

[lamomie]

Due to current lockdown I have hard time getting my hands to some ebike with Shimano system with ANT+ . I hope once I will have the opportunity I will be able to add compatibility to my apps via ANT+ which will then work on all Garmins. So keep fingers crossed.

Hello Jan, have you made any progress in developing your Connect IQ app on garmin edge meters?

 

[JanCapek]

@lamomie not yet. But I am not happy about it either. Hopefully I will get my hands on some compatible bike soon to figure out what is missing on my shimano connectivity code..

 

[lamomie]

@lamomie not yet. But I am not happy about it either. Hopefully I will get my hands on some compatible bike soon to figure out what is missing on my shimano connectivity code..

okay thank you so much

 

[DSA]

I had a quick look into your open source code as I wanted to add the cadence, but I searched around and was not able to identify which ID the cadence is. Did you maybe figured this out? Or is Shimano sending cadence only via ANT+?

 

[mark.ai]

I had a quick look into your open source code as I wanted to add the cadence, but I searched around and was not able to identify which ID the cadence is. Did you maybe figured this out? Or is Shimano sending cadence only via ANT+?

Cool, hope it is useful

I haven't managed to work out where cadence is (but haven't looked properly yet - maybe I can try this weekend). It may be part of the modeServiceUuid (as I call it in the code) - and this seems the most likely option. There are 3 notifications which get spammed out by that really fast - so it's possible it could be a byte in there somewhere.

Or it could be part of a different BLE service - but note that Garmin only allow up to 3 to be registered (and the code is using all 3, so you would have to remove one of the other ones)

Or it may not be available at all ...

 

[DSA]

really nice app, especially for that clean looking cockpit - for new trails (with GPS) I'm using the 530 which has a dedicated Steps Page, but for the known ones I prefer your app.

I'll take a look into the modeService Uuid, thanks for the hint. I also checked again the shimano etube ride app and cadence is included in this one - so it should be somehow available. I would get rid of the gear as most of us dont have di2.

 

[Berakotxa]

really nice app, especially for that clean looking cockpit - for new trails (with GPS) I'm using the 530 which has a dedicated Steps Page, but for the known ones I prefer your app.

I'll take a look into the modeService Uuid, thanks for the hint. I also checked again the shimano etube ride app and cadence is included in this one - so it should be somehow available. I would get rid of the gear as most of us dont have di2.

Does the garmin show the power phase? I mean, more than the assist level? The power that the motor meassures from the biker? Like a powermeter?

 

[mark.ai]

Does the garmin show the power phase? I mean, more than the assist level? The power that the motor meassures from the biker? Like a powermeter?

Unfortunately not That doesn't seem to be available at all for STEPS motors. I've seen it suggested to use some power cranks to get that info if you want it. Or maybe the upcoming EP8 motor might have it ...

 

[shenchman]

anyone tested this on EP8 yet?

 

[mark.ai]

anyone tested this on EP8 yet?

Very good question

Going to guess here (so I could be completely wrong ...) - but maybe the EP8 paired the E7000 display or EW-EN100 the bluetooth data will be the same (as it is sent by the display/junction).

Whereas EP8 with the new display (SC-EM800) I have no idea if the data format is the same or not. Guessing again - they could have released the SC-EM800 as a replacement for the original E8000 display (as that was a different data format compared to the newer E7000 and EW-EN100), and so maybe it will be the same as the newer ones

If I notice my LBS has any EP8 motored bikes I can try sneaking in there and pushing some buttons ...

Or if anyone tests it, would be cool

 

[damo]

Thanks for this! E8000 motor with E7000 display and Garmin Fenix 6

 

[walfersama]

Hi!

talking about the "STEPS EMTB Data" app -->

i tried to connect my girls vivoactive 4s (latest firmware) to her ep8 + em800-display (all latest software). That display should be a combo of e7000 insides and e8000 outsides, so Im wildly guessing it theoretically should work to connect.

Watch can run the app, no issues. Display shows the bluetooth logo consistently while watch is counting and trying to connect, but it just keeps on counting. I tried the flip-switching on the displays remote, but doesnt work.

Any ideas?

Many thanks in advance and best regards,
Markus

 

[squeegee]

One thing I've noticed that may or may not be a pattern with Garmin models is music versions have always worked for me. I've bought and returned so many I can't remember them all but Vivoactive 3 Music, Forerunner 645 music, Fenix 5 w/Music and Fenix 6 w/music and all worked perfectly (kept Fenix 6). Some Garmin watches (not all) non-music that I tried would react just as you mention.

Mark.ai may be able to say if I'm on to something here.

 

[mark.ai]

i tried to connect my girls vivoactive 4s (latest firmware) to her ep8 + em800-display (all latest software). That display should be a combo of e7000 insides and e8000 outsides, so Im wildly guessing it theoretically should work to connect.

Watch can run the app, no issues. Display shows the bluetooth logo consistently while watch is counting and trying to connect, but it just keeps on counting. I tried the flip-switching on the displays remote, but doesnt work.

There could be 2 potential problems:

• I'm not sure what data format the EM800 display uses for bluetooth - I was hoping it would work the same as E7000 like you mention, but it may not ...
• There is currently a Garmin bug with bluetooth on the Vivoactive 4 and Venu which prevents this datafield working on those watches (and produces the result you mention.) See here: VivoActive 4: BleDelegate.onProfileRegister returns status value 2 on every 2nd and 3rd registerProfile - Connect IQ Bug Reports - Connect IQ - Garmin Forums. I'm not sure if this could also affect the Vivoactive 4s (again it may or may not ...)

So because there's 2 possibilities I have no idea which it might be! Kind of hoping the 2nd one in this case although it would be annoying for you

@squeegee is right there was a problem with the Vivoactive 3 & Forerunner 645 (they don't support BLE so I removed them from the compatible list) whereas the Music versions do work. For some reason Garmin gives them different hardware. But those are the only ones I'm aware of currently.

I have no idea when I'll be able to get access to one of the new displays to try anything ...

 

[walfersama]

One thing I've noticed that may or may not be a pattern with Garmin models is music versions have always worked for me. I've bought and returned so many I can't remember them all but Vivoactive 3 Music, Forerunner 645 music, Fenix 5 w/Music and Fenix 6 w/music and all worked perfectly (kept Fenix 6). Some Garmin watches (not all) non-music that I tried would react just as you mention.

Mark.ai may be able to say if I'm on to something here.

The 4s has a music function though

 

[walfersama]

There could be 2 potential problems:

• I'm not sure what data format the EM800 display uses for bluetooth - I was hoping it would work the same as E7000 like you mention, but it may not ...
• There is currently a Garmin bug with bluetooth on the Vivoactive 4 and Venu which prevents this datafield working on those watches (and produces the result you mention.) See here: VivoActive 4: BleDelegate.onProfileRegister returns status value 2 on every 2nd and 3rd registerProfile - Connect IQ Bug Reports - Connect IQ - Garmin Forums. I'm not sure if this could also affect the Vivoactive 4s (again it may or may not ...)

So because there's 2 possibilities I have no idea which it might be! Kind of hoping the 2nd one in this case although it would be annoying for you

@squeegee is right there was a problem with the Vivoactive 3 & Forerunner 645 (they don't support BLE so I removed them from the compatible list) whereas the Music versions do work. For some reason Garmin gives them different hardware. But those are the only ones I'm aware of currently.

I have no idea when I'll be able to get access to one of the new displays to try anything ...

If i can help you in any way with that particular watch+display setup, please let me know. (Like testing)

I really appreciate your work. Thanks a lot !

 

[mark.ai]

If i can help you in any way with that particular watch+display setup, please let me know. (Like testing)

I really appreciate your work. Thanks a lot !

I think at this stage we'll need to wait for someone to try another type of watch with the EM800 display (not Vivo4, Vivo4s or Venu) and then we'll have a better idea (depending on if that works or not).

Unfortunately Shimano don't document any of their BLE formats.

And if it is the Garmin BLE bug then (another) unfortunately they are notoriously slow at fixing some things (I could honestly guess at 1 year plus for this kind of thing, which is ridiculous ...)

 

[mark.ai]

@walfersama - I've got one suggestion actually and have uploaded a new version of the data field, which might help work out what is happening in your case. If you try it, you may need to be careful to remove the old version from your watch first before installing the new version (I was experiencing some odd things happening when I was testing updates via Garmin Express).

But with the new version:

1. If it displays "BLE Start" - then it means it is the same Garmin bug that happens with Vivo 4 & Venu (and another watch may still work)
2. If it displays "Scan" like before - then it probably means the EM800 display is using a different bluetooth data format

Whichever of those 2 options occurs would give us some more info