No that is for me a yeti that I own. Would have bought the bike even it have avinox or Yamaha because I know that it will work good on the enduro I ride.
Bosch Gen 5 Rumour - More Power updates coming!
- Thread starter elesdee
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This has to be some of the worst Avinox glazing I have heard on this forum. They're just bikes dude
I bought an Avinox 12 months ago, after 1 X Bafang and 2 X Shimano Motors before. It improved my riding and fun. So with the new M2S motor. I am buying another. No glazing. Just enjoying my riding more because of the bike and motor system.This has to be some of the worst Avinox glazing I have heard on this forum. They're just bikes dude
It is just a bike. But the sports car I own, is just a car. But it's still more fun to drive than my company Camry. Not sure I'd get much argument with that point of view,
You are forgetting MTB market is a tiny percent of the ebike market. It's a very niche and small sport. Bosch will not care one bit.
OffitThatM8
Member
I mean even with a motor, I don't get to the top of a climb and think "OHHH THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING I'M GONNA ROLL TO THE BOTTOM AND DO IT AGAIN"
The fun is all in the down hill, ebike, fat bike, XC bike, gravel bike, enduro bike, I mean even trying to ride a penny farthing downhill is probably more fun than riding any emtb uphill.
Are you sure EMTB is the best choice for what you want out of riding, and not something like a Surron instead? Arguably that will probably give you more all round fun than any avinox, bosch, shimano or other pedelec powered bike..
Going downhill. The motor matters almost zero. So it has no impact which motor you use. The only thing the motor impacts is the bikes ability to climb. So yes I prefer a bike that makes climbing more fun.
Sometimes you just want to challenge nature. You see a descend. You walk it. The work out the best line. You have five goes and fail, and finally on the sixth run you solve the puzzle and conquer the descent.
I apply this same logic to ascends. And with the the Avinox System. I can climb better, and solving that puzzle is just as rewarding as solving the descends.
So yes. Just as better geometry and suspension allows you to descend more difficult and technical downhill tracks. A better and more powerful motor allows you to conquer more difficult and technical climbs. It's really just that simple.
I understand that if come you from a MTB background. This is probably a foreign concept. But I come from Trials Riding, and personally, as a new sport, I think many parts of EMTB riding is closer to Trials Riding than MTB. The EMTB with it's assist only and 25kph limit, just allows you to ride in places that Motorcycles understandably have, and will never be allowed. So I only ride EMTBs.
Paulquattro
Meet & Greet Elite
To be fair all of the ebike motors even cargo bikes is a small percentage against the rest of what bosch do as a company
They started in 1886 they have and still do so much more other stuff than ebike motors which is a very small percentage of there company and from looking around its around 1-2% of there business ,
And like you say they probably dont care one bit it in the grand scheme of things if DJI or any other motor takes over the market ,
Who should be worried is us as a consumer because if what is said on here by certain people becomes true that DJI will be the only ebike motor supplier in 5 years we will all be screwed by it as they would be charging what they like for them and your cheap motor system wont be that cheap any more and will be monopolized by them as this is what happens when any one thing becomes the sole provider ,
Lets hope that doesn't happen we need competition in all markets to keep them all on there toes
Joecrow
Active member
Indeed but that is the way the Chinese work, kill the competition with dumping prices and stolen technology and corner the market!
Ordered a new bike today after asking the bike shop if Orbea would confirm that the bike was approved for the new 120 Nm and 600% assistance upgrade. Orbea confirmed it was.It is for the existing gen 5 motors, like the previous 100nm/750w update, they call this one "Performance Upgrade 2.0".
All Bosch dealers can see it since yesterday.
Great move from Bosch (although they should have fixed the max assistance in the previous update).
Plummet
Flash Git
I ride like how you explain challenging thr tech climbing up and roosting the down. And agree that more power allows for cleaning more uphill sections.
But more power = bigger batteries which = more weight and worse front weight bias and a worse handling bike. Djis long skinny batteries are worse again for front weight bias.
So there is a trade off for bike handling v power and range. Talking trials riding the lighter the bike the better. Particularly when you need to flick the bike around in real tight like nose wheelie turns, bunnyhoppinb over logs ect.
Theres trails stuff I can do on my mtbs I cant do or is a lot worse on the e, and it become even worse with a heavy battery up front.
I am prepared to sacrifice some tech climb performance for superior descending and trails performance. My favorite set up is my bosch cx gen 5 with 400wh battery installed. Its such a treat to be riding that set up. It just more playful, the front end weight doesnt suck, I can clean tight trials section better, manual better and get faster times on the down due to superior and more balanced handling.
Duffman
New Member
- Apr 14, 2026
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If it is not upgraded to 900w, then the upgrade to 120nm won't do much in real world scenarios. Unless you are the type that just lets the pedals fall to propel you around. Most of the time I am climbing in tour+ mode to maximize range and only use emtb+ for DH to maximize acceleration out of corners under 20mph. But there have been times where my riding time was limited so I used emtb+ for the entire ride and where the current Bosch motor falls flat is on steep climbs where the rider is putting in a lot of effort. This is due to the 750w cutoff. If you are putting in 350 watts as a rider the motor will only provide 214% assistance instead of the 400% max. And this is where the Bosch motor falls on its face a bit compared to the Avinox. So increasing the motor torque to 120nm and leaving the max power at 750w is not very exciting at all.
trekRailIRL
New Member
If you keep... | And you increase... | Then the... |
|---|---|---|
Torque constant | RPM | Power increases linearly. |
Power constant | RPM | Torque must decrease. |
RPM constant | Torque | Power increases. |
Highland Wheels
Well-known member
How many brands and bikes had Avinox last year though?
I'm just replying to someone that said Bosch would be worried. Bosch could lose the whole MTB market and still sell more motors than avinox. Mtb sector is small fry. Bosch will sell millions of motors regardless. Plus of everyone goes avinox, you end up in the same position as two years ago. Everyone mainly switches to one brand, which is bad for riders.
E-MAD MALC
Well-known member
Does that saying stick about German built quality
Or is it running out of steam, hope not I'm still a great fan of there engineering and not only cycle motors
Skipping past all the usual avinox derailment.... this made my day
I had no idea there was a second update coming - but yesterday pulled the trigger and bought a gen 5 cube one77 action team
After years with my 140 action team and loving it, I really felt the urge for slacker geometry and more travel
I was already really happy going from 85->100nm - this is a massive cherry on top
It says nothing about bosch build quality - no-one is buying avinox because it's built better
It's just that avinox/dji are a market disrupter, like the way they pretty much bankrupted gopro after a decade of dominance, and bosch are a mammoth business with a very very small percentage in bikes. So bosch will be slower introducing features. They aren't as agile and it's not a huge focus for them.
Bosch will still be around whether people like it or not
. I mean shimano are still making motors and they're absolute garbage 
It's apparently an unpopular opinion, but the M1 was well behind the Gen 5, if you don't care about extra power and the fast charger.
The M1 rattled, was less reliable/ less dealer support, and less efficient (even DJI has acknowledged the tight seal reducing efficiency in their list of M2 improvements). Also, no chain ring protection.
The M2 has caught up in most regards, well except reliability, as poor dealer support and long lead times are mentioned in the FB forums quite often. Also still no chain ring coverage.
Now the Gen 5 has the kiox, software feature updates, is getting more power (still more than needed), soon getting more dense batteries and a fast charger.
The largest advantage of the Avinox is the slender 800wh battery for looks, which is proven to handle worse due to higher center of gravity.
I just don't get the obsession on this forum with the Avinox. All for an obscene amount of power and looks.
The M1 rattled, was less reliable/ less dealer support, and less efficient (even DJI has acknowledged the tight seal reducing efficiency in their list of M2 improvements). Also, no chain ring protection.
The M2 has caught up in most regards, well except reliability, as poor dealer support and long lead times are mentioned in the FB forums quite often. Also still no chain ring coverage.
Now the Gen 5 has the kiox, software feature updates, is getting more power (still more than needed), soon getting more dense batteries and a fast charger.
The largest advantage of the Avinox is the slender 800wh battery for looks, which is proven to handle worse due to higher center of gravity.
I just don't get the obsession on this forum with the Avinox. All for an obscene amount of power and looks.
TheKaiser
Active member
That is interesting that you increase the assistance level for DH sections, and climb in a lower power mode. I can't say that I've made a habit of that, unless maybe I am riding with people on analog bikes, but I definitely appreciate the power boost out of corners on DH sections, just as you've mentioned. Its funny, because on several Pinkbike e-bike reviews I've heard them mention that they turn the motor OFF once they're done climbing, and ride the bike unassisted on the DH in order to keep the motor from activating at an inopportune moment on the DH, which sounded crazy to me. I guess it might make sense if you're riding really slimy slow speed skinnies, with a lot of turns, and the torque of the motor might break your back wheel loose but, outside of that circumstance, it seems to just up the fun factor, with no downside.
TheKaiser
Active member
I would have agreed with you up until I just saw the IP ratings for these new M2/S motors. I've been on the fence regarding going with a CX Gen 5 bike, or a M2S bike, and just saw that the M2/S is IP66 (dust and high pressure water jet proof), whereas the CX5 is IP54 (dust resistant and low pressure splash proof).
I've been irritated by the lack of water proofing on e-bike motors for a while, after seeing all of the pics of moisture related failures in the motor rebuild threads, and really appreciated how the new Aventon/Gobao motor is IP67 (dust proof and full submersion up to 1m for up to 30min). Unfortunately, the Aventon/Gobao motor seems to still have a rattle, so while the new M2/S are not quite as well waterproofed as them, when compared to Bosch they are a clear improvement in waterproofing while matching the Bosch in the lack of rattle. We may well find out that the M2/S has some other build quality issue that is far behind Bosch, and the Avinox service and support/repairs issue is still a big question, but personally I'd lean towards a motor that is less likely to have water related issues, all else being equal.
Plummet
Flash Git
Anything Steeep slow tech down is not ideal on the highest power settings, particularly with motor overrun. One wrong forward pedal can shoot you off track, or loose control on the steep down. I power back on those steep tech sections.
ps E enduro racing dripple up hill in low settings and warp dh in BOOST.
Plummet
Flash Git
The market has spoken. Form over function for looks, skinny longer higher CofG batteries with thinner down tubes are preferred. Also more power and bigger batteries is preferred in the full power segment rather than smaller batteries and better handling.
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
i did the same on my KSL. climb in eco/trail, turbo on the downs for the quick power boost if needed
giovi
New Member
- Mar 28, 2026
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La potenza rimarrà a 750 watt o aumenterà nella quinta generazione?Una piccola correzione sulla data, ma l'aggiornamento verrà effettivamente annunciato la prima settimana di maggio.
Moderator Edit : Will the power remain at 750 watts or will it increase in the fifth generation?
trekRailIRL
New Member
Any idea on release date? CheersA slight correction on the date, but the update will in-fact be announced the first week of May.
bmwpowere36m3
Member
I wonder if that's really market influence or simply what Avinox offered. I know folks want a skinner down tube... but if Avinox launched with a Bosch form-factor battery I bet they still would be selling like hot fire.
Big boy batteries are kind of necessary, given how many folks want to use full-power bikes or systems like Avinox which can suck through juice very quickly. I think the population that wants an eMTB to be more MTB, is a lot smaller than those lured by the moto aspect.
I've only ridden full-power, long travel eMTBs and I had the opportunity to ride an Orbea Rise SL while on vacation. EP600 with a 540 wh battery. I did two big rides (38 miles/5200' & 28 miles/6000'), both in ECO mode and it felt more akin to my MTB. Similar to my Norco Range, when I drop below tour mode... it like riding my MTB, but I'd rather ride my MTB at that point. I bought an eMTB to either get more laps at similar output or put in less effort on days when I'm not so fresh.
See…. Ip rating is great. I agree all motors should aim for it
But I’ve had Bosch for 5 years, ride through all of winter, ridden through fjords and I jet wash the bike EVERY RIDE. Everything that apparently kills them, zero issues. So I agree it’s awesome, but it’s not high on my priority list
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