Bosch Gen 5 Rumour - More Power updates coming!
- Thread starter elesdee
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I'll sell ye mine
But I think we are on different continents...
Are you not happy with its performance? Please advise as I very likely will buy one.
trekRailIRL
New Member
It's a great bit of kit. I can't imagine a better light to be honest. I just thought I'd use it more, single track at night time but I don't. I then end up with a light on my bars that rarely gets used.
So far Amflow/Avinox is the only one I know of that did a custom cell for an ebike. It's fair to say they used an existing design 46.. type cell and shortened it to fit ten of them into their new battery pack. But like @ntm95 said it's kinda off a dead end cell. It only enables a build of a battery pack in the new 700Wh existing dimensions or a one that's more than double in volume/size(of course no one wants that).
The advantages this cell has is the slim form factor(slim downtube), easier battery pack build(less parts) and a higher and longer stability under stress(high current discharge). We can see that in the 1500W power it can sustain. Although I am pretty certain that a pack built with say Molicel P60B 21700 cells wouldn't be far behind if not equal.
Yes there are only small steps in energy density levels overall in the 21700 form. But there are as it looks like projects running that aim high. In the link you can see they are aiming up to 8,5Ah for the future...
Molicel’s 21700 High-Power Roadmap - Battery Design
Molicel’s 21700 High-Power Roadmap - Battery Design
Molicel, the Taiwan-based manufacturer known for producing some of the most trusted high-power lithium-ion cells, is expanding its 21700 product line.
share.google
Just hope the rumour about new high density batteries this year for Bosch is true.
For existing gen 5 cx motors? Or is this a new motor coming up? I hope they announce something soon!
Mario Antony
Active member
I bought the light at super discount and then acquired the rest.
You can buy the bundle, or just pick each component.
Supernova, aren't cheap, and I do believe there are better options out there.
I won't place links, but check the usual know web retailers.
if it's to use on night rides (trail), I suggest you buy a Helmet light too.
It is for the existing gen 5 motors, like the previous 100nm/750w update, they call this one "Performance Upgrade 2.0".
All Bosch dealers can see it since yesterday.
smart114
Member
Es wäre schön, wenn Bosch-Motoren auch für den Gen4 Smart erhältlich wären.Es handelt sich um ein Update für die bereits vorhandenen Gen 5-Motoren, ähnlich dem vorherigen 100nm/750w-Update, das sie als „Performance Upgrade 2.0“ bezeichnen.
Alle Bosch-Händler können es seit gestern sehen.
The only thing I saw mentioned about the Gen4 was that the eMTB+ mode would get an increase to 600% support, from it's current 400%.
Are there any new riding modes? Does only eMTB+ get 600% support?
The Amflow effect is crushing ALL the competition. Bosch and Specialized are dying, Shimano is already dead. Meanwhile, 60 brands have already signed with Avinox to use the new M2 and M2S motors.
Same modes and from what I read only the eMTB+ mode gets the increased support on the Gen 4, all other modes will still be 340%.
Avinox sold 100,000 motors last year. Bosch sold 3 million. I don't think they are worried
Bogdan_CH
Active member
5 to 10 main brands worth mentioning, others are just chinese copies that appeared overnight in the shadow of Avinox. Honestly not worth mentioning as in 5 years they will be all gone.
TheMirrorVision
Member
Don’t disagree with your analysis, but where’s the data from and what’s the trajectory of each company’s forecast through 2027 I wonder?
Oh the LOLs. Is Bosch going to try some "Word Manipulation" so they don't contradict themselves with their, "Greater than 750 watts peak will destroy the industry" mantra ?
Top Secret Power Multiplier ....... ??? Are you serious ???
Top Secret Power Multiplier ....... ??? Are you serious ???
Plummet
Flash Git
They should be worried, They are fast loosing market share. Look at all the bikes coming out with avinox now. Its market % they will have in 18 months time that is the worry.
bmwpowere36m3
Member
Don't forget eMTB is just a slice in the ebike pie... not minimizing Avinox's impact. However, I suspect Bosch's marketshare is HUGE if you consider the entire ebike space. I don't have a solid number, but I suspect eMTBs have to be on the smaller end when you consider commuter, cargo and other ebikes.
I do agree with another poster, in that some of these Chinese bike brands are simply riding the Avinox wave. Even Amflow, though their slowly building cache. However if they launched with any other motor, they likely wouldn't have received the marketing/influencer/sales to build steam behind the brand.
I guess, this is where the eMTB community splits... is the bike/brand as a whole more important or is it the motor. At the end of the day, we going to have better drive systems and choices moving forward... so it a win.
I don’t have any particular market insight, but a quick poke about the internet suggests global e-bike sales were 35-40 milllion units last year, predicted to grow to 70 million by 2030.
How true that is I have no idea, nor the share of mid vs hub motors etc, but it seems sensible to me to guesstimate that the number of mid motor long travel e-mountain bikes is tiny as part of that, however fast it’s growing.
The pie is huge, and there’s enough for everybody to have a slice. People wanted competition and innovation, now they’ve got some.
This is a new space for DJI, whilst they are the Bosch of the drone world they also arguably grew the market from a small base, taking what was a ‘nerd’ product mainstream. Many people wouldn’t have dreamt of owning a drone until they saw the Phantom and then the Mini. EMTBs existed before DJI and they’re now supplying motors and batteries to pretty similar looking bikes. They’re no longer in control of everything, they’re now a supplier to the bike industry so it’s different.
The demographic on here must be pretty western as well as affluent, there aren’t many people in the world dropping as much as a family car on a weekend plaything. Let’s get real and maintain some perspective.
How true that is I have no idea, nor the share of mid vs hub motors etc, but it seems sensible to me to guesstimate that the number of mid motor long travel e-mountain bikes is tiny as part of that, however fast it’s growing.
The pie is huge, and there’s enough for everybody to have a slice. People wanted competition and innovation, now they’ve got some.
This is a new space for DJI, whilst they are the Bosch of the drone world they also arguably grew the market from a small base, taking what was a ‘nerd’ product mainstream. Many people wouldn’t have dreamt of owning a drone until they saw the Phantom and then the Mini. EMTBs existed before DJI and they’re now supplying motors and batteries to pretty similar looking bikes. They’re no longer in control of everything, they’re now a supplier to the bike industry so it’s different.
The demographic on here must be pretty western as well as affluent, there aren’t many people in the world dropping as much as a family car on a weekend plaything. Let’s get real and maintain some perspective.
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As market leader Bosch got complacent and will have to work had to be more agile and competitive or continue to lose market share. Just like Nokia did in the mobile phone market.
Dude the motor is no avaible. You can*t buy all the bikes that are announced. Look at how many athettons are only avaible for start.
Your right.
But serious mtb riders choose the bike not the motor. With avinox there are no real enduro bikes with real good geo. Forbidden crestline maybe atherton. That’s probably it maybe forgot some
Bosch should use this period where Avinox has to get up to speed supply wise to bring out slim fixed battery options for the gen 5.
Yep. But they did probably the calculation. They bring all new stuff 2028? Probably
I must admit I don’t get this obsession with slimmer down tubes, it’s not like all e-bikes before them were mingers, and they’re all still fat compared to my ‘analogue’ enduro bike anyway.
Fatter lower CofG battery configs also have benefits from a riding point of view, but I guess a lot of people don’t really ride anymore….
Bosch is a massively diversified business and its eggs are certainly not all in the e-bike basket, so not really like Nokia at all.
Interestingly, and as people always mention Nokia, it’s actually still a multi-billion dollar global business, and forms one of the three global network and communication giants (alongside Huawei and Ericsson (remember them?!)).
The sky isn’t about to fall in on Bosch, and we should hope it doesn’t otherwise you might end up with a different dominant player in the e-bike market with all the downsides that can bring.
Ummm ....... You missed a couple ......... Mondraker Zendit, Propain Ekano, Whyte Karve Evo, Teewing Flux, BH iLynx, Steppenwolf Tundra, Velduro Rogue, Forestal e-Siryon .........
That's just off the top of my head.
I have bought the Teewing Flux from an Australian distributor. Due in May. They had 5 frames at the beginning of the week. Sold out by Weds due to the big Avinox Launch. Certain sizes in complete bikes also sold out.
Bosch will be fine. But they need to cut the stupid, "We know what you want and what's best for you" routine, and start producing motors systems that the public actually say they want.
Right now they want slim, light EMTBs, that improve your ability uphill and downhill. These Avinox Motors give you the same sensation uphill, as what you get downhill. Literally doubling your days fun.
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When all this brands exist in 5 years still we can talk about warranty etc. I think avinox calculated that some of them are going down someday
EMTB brands and bikes, come and go no matter the motor in them.
Anyway, You said "With avinox there are no real enduro bikes with real good geo." My point is there are more than enough. If you are concerned about the longevity of the bike brand. Then stick with the well known ones.
For me. I don't keep EMTBs for more than 2-3 years. So I don't care if they disappear in 5 years. And DJI are certainly not going anywhere.
But I do agree. Bosch is a really well established brand. And if that's what you are looking for. Then stick with Bosch. But if you are looking for the latest cutting edge technology. Then you will need to take risks with the disruptors.
I ride EMTB's purely for pleasure. So I'm not looking for safe. I'm looking for the most fun. Right now. That's isn't Bosch motored EMTBs, IMO.
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