Bosch Gen 5 Rumour - More Power updates coming!

[JJ765]

Personally the power is fine as is (but more would be a bonus ), what I want to see is Bosch finally enter the 21st centry when it comes to the customer being able to download add ons from Bosch, like (still waiting ) auto-shift with sram derailleurs, activating power for lights and the power cable to sram GX derailleur battery without having to find a dealer (I have yet to find a local dealer who seems interested in doing this, probably because they don't sell the brand of bike I have, the dealer I bought from, the nearest, is 2 hours away). I was told by one LBS that I had to book my bike in with them, leave it with them, they plug the bike into the Bosch system and then have to wait for Bosch to reply, which could be hours or even days, I mean, wtf is that all about. I, the customer should be able to go into settings and activate the spare power ports on the motor to allow me to power my lights and gears, come on Bosch, get with the programme, its 2026, not 1996.

End of rant !

 

[Masta_Fro]

Hey guys, so this is spreading like wildfire and its basically confirmed. Bosch will release an update on May 4rth and probably address it in Sea Otter. No word on watts yet but maybe 850 watts, though I've heard they're keeping it at 750.

 

[obyone]

May 4th, Star Wars day
May the Force be with you!!!!
Couldn't think of a better day to release more power

 

[Suns_PSD]

That's cool. Doubt I'd even download this particular update.

That said, the people want more top speed assist and more energy dense batteries!

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Hey guys, so this is spreading like wildfire and its basically confirmed. Bosch will release an update on May 4rth and probably address it in Sea Otter. No word on watts yet but maybe 850 watts, though I've heard they're keeping it at 750.

850W is so yesterday... 1300W or nothing

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

850W is so yesterday... 1300W or nothing

Pffft.
If I am not getting at least 250kw on a sub-20kg bike, I'm going back to meatbikes.

 

[Uppy]

Some of you in the industry may have already learned this, but today I got some cool, new info:

- power/torque firmware update coming for CX and CXR in May to get ‘em on par with Avinox and Specialized

- fast charger is coming this year, 12amp. Current ones are either 4amp or 2amp

- new, budget PX motor which is a combo of gen 4 and gen 5 tech, but I’m not sure if it will go on eMTB’s (might be mostly for commuting)

- new batteries are already being prototyped and tested; currently they already have testers riding bikes with a battery that has more capacity than the current 800Wh and yet it’s lighter and smaller. But no word on whether this will be gen 6 tech or backwards compatible with gen 5

I’ve also heard about this. Pushing the motor to 120nm peak, and I’ve also heard they are testing new batteries

 

[dirt-diggler]

I’ve also heard about this. Pushing the motor to 120nm peak, and I’ve also heard they are testing new batteries

I think it they made batteries back compatible to replace the current 600/800's they'd win a lot of peoples hearts.

 

[501AM]

I think it they made batteries back compatible to replace the current 600/800's they'd win a lot of peoples hearts.

I think the fat downtubes are the main problem for many with the current batteries, so it would not change much for the current bike owners, as I assume Bosch is working on a sleaker design.

 

[dirt-diggler]

I think the fat downtubes are the main problem for many with the current batteries, so it would not change much for the current bike owners, as I assume Bosch is working on a sleaker design.

I presumed they'd be lighter batteries with bigger capacity? But it they fitted current bikes people would be happy (and still have fat down tubes)

 

[RSG]

It would be interesting to see what would be feasible in terms of fitting a lighter battery into existing bigger downtube'd bikes - would they use blanking modules etc to take up the space (arguably adding some level of weight back into it) or just keep the same form factor but somehow keep the lithium towards the bottom of the battery to lower CoG?

I'd personally favour an 800w in same size and form factor if it can be done for the same weight as the current 600w - I love how my bullit rides in its current guise / weight

Hopefully bosch come to the table and make things backwards compatible to an extent

 

[Suns_PSD]

The low hanging fruit is offering drop in larger batteries for the 600wh bikes, making them much more relevant again. If Transition, Santa Cruz, Orbea etc. could still offer their light slim silhouette frames but with a 720wh battery, that would be a notable bump in capability and I'd likely buy one along with a fast charger for my own Wild.

The next low hanging fruit is offering a skinny 850+ wh battery for new frame designs.

 

[russ_e]

A 800w battery in the same form factor and weight would be fantastic.

 

[Suns_PSD]

A 800w battery in the same form factor and weight would be fantastic.

With the new power levels that are coming for everyone, big batteries are in fact needed.

 

[maddog69]

What do you think Bosch should do about the speed cut off?

Personally I feel like 45kmh would be perfect, currently with the 32 kmh it cuts out around 30kmh and the bike feels hard to pedal over 30kmh ,I do big jungle missions here in nz and 45kmh would let me commute back from the jungle faster

 

[maddog69]

Jeez ride the gen5 bikes guys - even with the upcoming 120NM upgrade (personally I think my 100NM is fine as it is)

Will they up the watts aswell? Personally 120nm and 1000watts would be nice but a speed cut of 45kmh would be better

 

[maddog69]

Hey guys, so this is spreading like wildfire and its basically confirmed. Bosch will release an update on May 4rth and probably address it in Sea Otter. No word on watts yet but maybe 850 watts, though I've heard they're keeping it at 750.

If they dont up the watts aswell I feel like they will lose alot of customers to avinox, with the latest m2s motor able to peak at 1500w then why would you choose a bosch

 

[Suns_PSD]

If they dont up the watts aswell I feel like they will lose alot of customers to avinox, with the latest m2s motor able to peak at 1500w then why would you choose a bosch

Cause of preferring the bike and not needing the power would be obvious reasons to choose the Bosch.

That said, Bosch is going to turn up the power but not to Avinox levels. Probably 850w/ 115 nm or the like.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

If they dont up the watts aswell I feel like they will lose alot of customers to avinox, with the latest m2s motor able to peak at 1500w then why would you choose a bosch

Bosch been around longer, price, support.... not everyone is interested in peak power. However, its hard to compete against in certain categories of bikes, such as: long travel and full-power. Where folks care more about shuttling, speed and "more laps". Plus it seems changing designs, durability, and/or repariability aren't factors for certain buyers dropping 10k+ on eMTBs that are going to lose value in a hurry.

Amflow's new base model PR is 5k... what does that mean for someone with a year old PL. Bet the secondhard market is going to be great for buyers.

@Suns_PSD is right... folks are TOO preoccupied with drive systems and lose sight of the importance of the bike itself.

 

[maddog69]

Cause of preferring the bike and not needing the power would be obvious reasons to choose the Bosch.

That said, Bosch is going to turn up the power but not to Avinox levels. Probably 850w/ 115 nm or the like.

950watts and 120nm with the option to increase speed to 45kmh would make me happy

 

[maddog69]

Bosch been around longer, price, support.... I guess not everyone is interested in peak power. However, its hard to compete against in certain categories of bikes, such as: long travel and full-power. Where folks care more about shuttling, speed and "more laps". Plus it seems changing designs, durability, and/or repariability aren't factors for certain buyers dropping 10k+ on eMTBs that are going to lose value in a hurry.

Amflow's new base model PR is 5k... what does that mean for someone with a year old PL. Bet the secondhard market is going to be great for buyers.

When I race e enduro here in nz against a avinox with no speed restrictions and 1000w of power its bloody hard to compete,so thats why I need more from bosch

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

When I race e enduro here in nz against a avinox with no speed restrictions and 1000w of power its bloody hard to compete,so thats why I need more from bosch

That sounds like a race organization issue... or classing of eMTBs. Sure, if your racing you'll want to be on the cutting edge. Again, how many folks are racing eMTBs vs. your typical rider whose got a beer belly and just wants to have fun and do less work.

 

[Fangs2k]

If they dont up the watts aswell I feel like they will lose alot of customers to avinox, with the latest m2s motor able to peak at 1500w then why would you choose a bosch

Same reason that some people purchased a Bosch SX instead of a CX or any other type of full power motor?

It really does depend on what you want a bike for and how you’re going to use it, as well as all sorts of other less rational reasons.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

I'm excited what my next eMTB will be in a couple years, but my current gen5 CX on a Norco Range is awesome.

In order of importance for me:

1. repairability
2. higher efficiency/density (motor/batt)
3. faster charging
4. wheel position/speed sensing to control wheel slip, especially during overrun (ABS ring like Avinox)
5. 28 mph unlock
6. better GPS routing/integration on Kiox (built-in GPS, not relying on phone)

 

[Yotaismygame]

Personally I don't need more power. Us in the PNW mostly climb gravel roads anyways. And again personally I don't need more than 5k of vert in a day. And if I do I just plug the bike in during lunch. Not a big deal at all. Myself and most the guys I ride with arent full power riders anyways. I just ordered a bosch gen 5 bike. Probably will rarely use full power. Guess i'm a weirdo. Packaging, reliability, and to some degree weight is what's important to me. Some of the new features like auto shift sound cool too but I've been riding without such a thing for a long time and it's just fine. I hope the industry wakes up and make solid, affordable "mid power bikes" that don't weigh upwards of 55lbs.

 

[SilverWinterSky]

So when do we think we’ll learn more from Bosch..? I see a few different dates suggested in this thread!

 

[TheBob]

Bosch has some real low hanging fruit to go after rather than power and torque numbers. Opening up proper support for Garmin (and other service/hardware) integration, a better app with the ability to adjust more motor features like overrun and more customization of the Kiox 400c display are top my wishlist. My Vala does all I want set at 600 watts and 85nm

 

[IATR]

I was out in the woods again tonight on my Heckler SL.

On all of the tight, technical climbing I'd have lost traction with anything more than Trail (or River, whatever Fazua call it).

I'm probably going to buy a Vala next week because I want more range, but where does everybody who wants or uses more power or assist levels use it? Just blasting up fire roads to get back to a trail head? On my Decoy, I never run my ancient E8000 in boost on technical ups or downs, it's too powerful.

On tonight's ride there were two sections of fireroad where if I'd had more power I'd have gotten up them quicker. They wouldn't have been more interesting, but I'd have spent maybe a minute or two less time pedalling up. I don't need to save that time, so where are Avinox riders, or full fat Bosch riders using the power?

I won't be the fastest rider on here, but I've been riding for 35 years and I'm definitely not hanging about. In the technical stuff, like Golfie maybe, I just can't see when I'd want more than 70 or 80Nm, or when my cadence needs more than 800 watts apart from the slog back up to the reservoir.

Am I missing the point?

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

I was out in the woods again tonight on my Heckler SL.

On all of the tight, technical climbing I'd have lost traction with anything more than Trail (or River, whatever Fazua call it).

I'm probably going to buy a Vala next week because I want more range, but where does everybody who wants or uses more power or assist levels use it? Just blasting up fire roads to get back to a trail head? On my Decoy, I never run my ancient E8000 in boost on technical ups or downs, it's too powerful.

On tonight's ride there were two sections of fireroad where if I'd had more power I'd have gotten up them quicker. They wouldn't have been more interesting, but I'd have spent maybe a minute or two less time pedalling up. I don't need to save that time, so where are Avinox riders, or full fat Bosch riders using the power?

I won't be the fastest rider on here, but I've been riding for 35 years and I'm definitely not hanging about. In the technical stuff, like Golfie maybe, I just can't see when I'd want more than 70 or 80Nm, or when my cadence needs more than 800 watts apart from the slog back up to the reservoir.

Am I missing the point?

There are times it comes in handy and the grip is there... other times the power and over-run are a detriment. If Bosch had better wheel sensing and algorithm, you could almost have a "traction" control which could be handy. The latter is what I believe or think Avinox is doing and getting praise for its smooth and easy to use power.

We have an enduro spot with a paved road to top... only limit is speed, more power will get you up quicker and/or less fatigued. Its the only practical way up and there's noting exciting or interesting about it. The goal for that zone is pure DH.

On more double track or smoother trail climbs with sticky/meaty tires you can really put the power down as well. Once the trail surface gets looser and/or wet, then all the power isn't going to help. Nor if it get too technical of a climb...

Power comes in handy at times, but again 100NM/750W gets me up stuff I'd be hike-biking on my analog bike anyway.

 

[olibluegoat]

Backwards compatibility on bikes with the existing Gen 5 motor for new battery tech would be a game changer. Same with maintaining form factor for motor fixings. Just seems crazy each motor / battery iteration means a new frame. Bosch needs to keep us for the long-term with things like this