Battery range on 500wh not what I was hoping

dobbyhasfriends said:
I was changing my settings throughout the ride as I found that - especially on trail mode, it was too much assist and on some occasions I felt that the bike was driving me along and not the other way around.. in fact, because ive always used clipless pedals and race shoes but converted to flats for this bike, i found that the impetus of the bike was catching me out and I would lose a foot from the pedal pretty frequently.

from memory:

ECO: 25-45
Trail: 45-80
Turbo: 100-100
Click to expand...

If I feel like I want to "work hard" - trail around 45-80 and eco 25-45 both end up "feeling" too easy so I drop them back. The reality I'm finding though is that I end up working just as hard no matter how they're set I just end up going faster when it's on the higher settings. Though to stretch out battery life, drop the second figure to be more inline with the first figure, otherwise as you pedal harder, the assistance amount increases considerably and so does power usage.
 
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I'm surprised that not many of the Levo owners have mentioned the BLEvo app. This allows you to set(as I have done) Trail to be infinately varible from 2%-99% assistance. It has 'smart' mode which you set the legs power threshold. Then when you are riding level or downhill terrain assistance drops to 2%, when yo climb it will rise as necssary. This increases the range you can get from the battery. Check out 'The official BLEvo thread'.
 
dobbyhasfriends said:
I was changing my settings throughout the ride as I found that - especially on trail mode, it was too much assist and on some occasions I felt that the bike was driving me along and not the other way around.. in fact, because ive always used clipless pedals and race shoes but converted to flats for this bike, i found that the impetus of the bike was catching me out and I would lose a foot from the pedal pretty frequently.

from memory:

ECO: 25-45
Trail: 45-80
Turbo: 100-100
Click to expand...

Try this:
Eco 20/35
Trail 35/55
Turbo 60/80

Also, set acceleration and shuttle to 0%

Motor performs best at 80-90 rpm cadence.
 
At 100kg on a 500 battery (kenevo) I get around 15 miles / 2000ft in trail or thereabouts. The best ive got is 20 miles / 3200ft using a mix of eco & trail.
This is self uplift or trailcentre type rides.
I expect if I was lighter it would be better, but a recent embn video didnt seem to back that up.
I have 2 batteries & swap at lunchtime. TBH it wouldn't be worth a 2.5+ hour drive to wales if I only had the 1 battery, it would limit riding too much.
 
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RobertD said:
I'm surprised that not many of the Levo owners have mentioned the BLEvo app. This allows you to set(as I have done) Trail to be infinately varible from 2%-99% assistance. It has 'smart' mode which you set the legs power threshold. Then when you are riding level or downhill terrain assistance drops to 2%, when yo climb it will rise as necssary. This increases the range you can get from the battery. Check out 'The official BLEvo thread'.
Click to expand...
i don't really like the power facility used it a few times, the heart rate aspect looks interesting but don't have a BT HR strap.
 
Turn down shuttle and it will help alot with battery life. As stated its a new battery and will take a few cycle. To be fair with what you've done I would be pleased on that range. Weight has massive difference on range, plus the speed you ride and what mode you use. I wouldnt worry about others that do a million miles on 10% battery...you've bought an ebike to use the power, so use it. I don't get the point in having an electric bike and struggling just so you've got some battery left at the end, its not like its expensive to charge. Your still getting fit blasting about and its less of a chore. :-)
 
Zimmerframe said:
I might when I have my xmas shower .. Talking of which it's almost time to go and get completely soaked and covered in mud. It's 4c degrees - so perfect for keeping those brake disks cold for some ScReAM testing .. Would be a lot more fun if it was snow and not rain .. and a good time to test Spesh cold weather battery performance !
Click to expand...
I went riding last week in a sunny/dry 32 degree and 2 days later it was 10 degrees and pouring rain. I was supposed to go back to the alpine park tomorrow but it’s snowing and -3 degree. I love Victoria
 
RobertD said:
I'm surprised that not many of the Levo owners have mentioned the BLEvo app. This allows you to set(as I have done) Trail to be infinately varible from 2%-99% assistance. It has 'smart' mode which you set the legs power threshold. Then when you are riding level or downhill terrain assistance drops to 2%, when yo climb it will rise as necssary. This increases the range you can get from the battery. Check out 'The official BLEvo thread'.
Click to expand...
I use the brilliant BLEvo and Smart Power mode. It's so smooth and let's you put in a good amount of rider power while still getting assistance when needed. I'm doing 30-40km rides with no more than 20% battery usage. Albeit these are fairly flat rides, around Derwent Valley for example.
 
couplands said:
I use the brilliant BLEvo and Smart Power mode. It's so smooth and let's you put in a good amount of rider power while still getting assistance when needed. I'm doing 30-40km rides with no more than 20% battery usage. Albeit these are fairly flat rides, around Derwent Valley for example.
Click to expand...
Brilliant! I love the way you can tune the system to you own needs and with the remote handle bar switch you can change leg threshold on the fly!
 
The 500wh battery is about 14ah. On a flat road surface expect to get about 2 mile per ah. On Rough terrain, hills etc considerably less.
The other element that will drain the battery (just like petrol in a car) is stop start journey's. The motor has to pull more amps to get going until reaching a nominal cruise speed. The motor will pull peak amps each time you accelerate feom a slow speed. So to counteract this you should turn down the peak power setting
 
apac said:
@dobbyhasfriends do a few cycles of the battery before concluding what range you are getting. I also find that cold weather affects the amount of capacity you get out of lithium cells of this type, and im sure its not that warm on the Beacons right now. Anyway, 24 miles sounds pretty good to me.
Click to expand...
This is a very good point about cycles on the battery. Winter is a double whammy of Li-ion batteries not liking the cold, and engergy sapping squishy trails covered in mud. Summer range is noticably better.

Also, I find the 35% assist, 35% power limit of the standard Eco (35/35) not as good as 20/100, for both the ease of riding and power consumption, but YMMV (you may have changed the setting already, and I have a 2018 bike). 24 miles is maybe a bit light IMHO, but given the above, maybe not truly indicitive.

I also changed my riding style to use a higher cadence in lower grears, after stretching my chain in no time at all. My range improved (and I havent had to replace my chain again yet). This is a worthwhile read:
Understanding Support vs Peak Power in Mission Control App v2.0 - EMTB Forums
 
dobbyhasfriends said:
picked up my Levo yesterday and took it out today, its a 2019 carbon comp (500wh)
done 24 miles and 800m of climbing, used eco and trail only with a few road sections with the motor off.
the battery was completely gone when I got back. The beacons is quite rough though, lots of it was baby head long grass..
is this normal range? I was expecting more..
are my settings to blame?

all that aside, what an amazing bike ! I was still riding my old enduro until today but thats probably the last time it gets a turn of the wheel..

View attachment 21324

View attachment 21325
Click to expand...
BLEvo v3.5.4 iOS

Statistical data for my ride Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:31:29 CET

Short statistics:

- Elapsed time: 2:47:22
- KM total: 55.06 km
- Speed average: 19.7 km/h
- Ascent total: +1499 m
- Battery Consumed: 91% (441 Wh)
- Consumption average: 8.01 Wh/km
- Wh ride: 724Wh
- Wh Biker: 39.1% (283Wh)
- Wh Battery: 60.9% (441Wh)

Full statistics:

Firmware: 0.3.1
User Settings:
"Advanced user": 25(⚡+❤)/26(⚡+❤)/100(⚡+❤) PP 45/75/100 ACC 23% Shuttle 11%
Smart Power ⚡: Watt 244 (+/- 20) - Reactivity Mid
Smart HR ❤ : BPM 140 (+/- 5) - Linked to Smart Power
- Smart ECO: Min 1% - Max 25%
- Smart TRAIL: Min 26% - Max 35%
- Smart TURBO: Min 36% - Max 100%

Assistance average: 23.2%
- ECO: 6.8%
- TRAIL: 27.9%
- TURBO: 44.6%

Ride Time:
- Start time: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 12:31:29 CET
- Stop time: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 15:30:06 CET
- Elapsed time:2:47:22
- ECO: 1:25:01 (50.8%)
- TRAIL: 1:19:34 (47.5%)
- TURBO: 0:02:47 (1.7%)

Battery:
- Start: 100% (483 Wh)
- End: 9% (42 Wh)
- Consumed: 91% (441 Wh)
- ECO: 6.9% (33 Wh)
- TRAIL: 79.5% (385 Wh)
- TURBO: 4.6% (22 Wh)

Consumption average: 8.01 Wh/km
- ECO: 1.08 Wh/km
- TRAIL: 16.39 Wh/km
- TURBO: 32.85 Wh/km

Battery Temperature:
- Min: 22°C
- Max: 36°C
- Average: 29°C

Motor Temperature:
- Min: 24°C
- Max: 56°C
- Average: 39°C

KM Total: 55.06 km
- ECO: 30.88 (56.1%)
- TRAIL: 23.50 (42.7%)
- TURBO: 0.68 (1.2%)

KM Total with assistance: 31.40/55.06 km (57.0 %)
- ECO: 7.67/30.88 km (24.8%)
- TRAIL: 23.06/23.50 km (98.1%)
- TURBO: 0.67/0.68 km (98.7%)

Speed average: 19.7 km/h
- ECO: 21.8 km/h
- TRAIL: 17.7 km/h
- TURBO: 14.7 km/h

Speed Max: 43.1 km/h
- ECO: 43.1 km/h (15:21:01 - km 50.96)
- TRAIL: 29.7 km/h (15:27:41 - km 54.37)
- TURBO: 20.8 km/h (14:14:10 - km 29.26)

Cadence average: 64 rpm
- ECO: 63 rpm
- TRAIL: 64 rpm
- TURBO: 51 rpm

Cadence Max: 102 rpm
- ECO: 102 rpm (14:34:19 - km 33.84)
- TRAIL: 98 rpm (12:44:01 - km 2.16)
- TURBO: 71 rpm (14:14:12 - km 29.27)

Heart rate average: 122 bpm
- ECO: 106 bpm
- TRAIL: 137 bpm
- TURBO: 145 bpm

Heart rate Max: 151 bpm
- ECO: 146 bpm (14:27:16 - km 32.91)
- TRAIL: 151 bpm (13:42:22 - km 21.28)
- TURBO: 150 bpm (13:44:37 - km 21.93)

Kcal consumed: 1107 Kcal
- ECO: 301 Kcal
- TRAIL: 778 Kcal
- TURBO: 28 Kcal

Biker power Max: 427 W
- ECO: 427 W (14:22:37 - km 31.29)
- TRAIL: 361 W (13:41:40 - km 21.08)
- TURBO: 328 W (14:14:19 - km 29.30)

Total Wh Biker: 283 Wh
- ECO: 76 Wh (27.2 %)
- TRAIL: 199 Wh (70.3 %)
- TURBO: 7 Wh (2.5 %)

Motor power Max: 676 W
- ECO: 332 W (14:03:52 - km 26.64)
- TRAIL: 591 W (13:44:41 - km 21.95)
- TURBO: 676 W (13:44:28 - km 21.90)

Total Wh motor: 395 Wh
- ECO: 29 Wh (7.6 %)
- TRAIL: 345 Wh (87.3 %)
- TURBO: 20 Wh (5.1 %)

Max Altitude: 1274 m
Min Altitude: 29 m

Ascent total: +1499 m
- ECO: 239 m (15.9 %)
- TRAIL: 1203 m (80.3 %)
- TURBO: 57 m (3.8 %)

Descent total: -1475 m
- ECO: 1392 m (94.4 %)
- TRAIL: 83 m (5.6 %)
- TURBO: 0 m (0.0 %)
 
I find the small power meter that my Chicano steps motor has very valuable for getting max use out of my battery. Keeping my cadence and gear selection proper so the meter doesn't spike on the screen allows me to outlast my buddy on his kenevo for most rides. Almost like a video game.
 
I was getting 35-40 miles in the dry on South Downs over Summer with Nobby Nic Addix 2.6 tyres on my 2018 Carbon Comp, with settings of 25/45/85 and 85% current/acceleration. I use Turbo liberally, but try to keep to Eco/Trail. I went out on the Downs in the mud yesterday with Hillbilly 2.6 tyres and I was nearly out of battery after 25 miles. Conditions, tyres, mode settings, and weight/fitness are all contributing factors. I am 67, and eh, plumpish, and would expect younger fitter riders to be able to do more than this, and would hope the 2019 model would do more (as I’m hoping to get one soon :)
 
dobbyhasfriends said:
picked up my Levo yesterday and took it out today, its a 2019 carbon comp (500wh)
done 24 miles and 800m of climbing, used eco and trail only with a few road sections with the motor off.
the battery was completely gone when I got back. The beacons is quite rough though, lots of it was baby head long grass..
is this normal range? I was expecting more..
are my settings to blame?

all that aside, what an amazing bike ! I was still riding my old enduro until today but thats probably the last time it gets a turn of the wheel..

View attachment 21324

View attachment 21325
Click to expand...
If its a new battery will take a few charges discharges to get up to full power
 
went out again today, conditions were terrible. loads of sandy mudplugging, loads of bogtrotting and the rest was very steep techy climbs over rock.. also loads of river crossings without problems.

From strava
Distance: 20.31 miles
Elev Gain: 4143 ft

ran out of battery about 3 miles before the end of the ride, did the last huge climb with a dead bike which wasnt nice at all

bloody gear change/rear cassette is awful.. there is no place where the adjustment allows smooth shifting across the cassette. you can adjust so that 2/3 of the cassette is ok and the remaining third will just jump and smash its way through the ride. the only thing you get to choose is which third of the cassette doesnt work properly..
 
Levo19 said:
S
I've been wondering that, so faster gears at a slow cadence at say 25kmh will use more battery then a high cadence in a slower gear at 25kmh?
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Each motor has a sweet spot as to where they work, but the more you put in yourself the less you take out.
 
Was out today at Glentress doing a wee mash up and got 44km and 1700m of cimbing. Thats with a 2020 Levo Comp so a 700w/h battery. Reckon I could get 2000m easy if I left it in eco most of the time.
 
I had a demo of the 2019 with the 500w/h battery a few weeks back and got 30km and 1200m.
 
sparkyveg said:
If its a new battery will take a few charges discharges to get up to full power
Click to expand...
Li-ion battery is not acting that way. You are referring to old Ni-MH or Ni-Cd battery me thinks. You can Google the differences.
 
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TMS said:
Li-ion battery is not acting that way. You are referring to old Ni-MH or Ni-Cd battery me thinks. You can Google the differences.
Click to expand...
Yes, lots of confusion and mis-quotes about battery memory etc based on advice from old battery tech around.
 
Rich-EMTB-UK said:
Yes, lots of confusion and mis-quotes about battery memory etc based on advice from old battery tech around.
Click to expand...

im a tradesman and have had battery tools for years across nicd and lion.. used to experience this with the nicd along with other battery issues but not since all the tools went lion..
 
I have never got below 25% battery left on my Levo with the 500 battery and the hardest/ longest ride was probably over the Brecon Beacons/The Gap. That was 25 miles and 2000 ft. I use 35/50/100 and on most rides I use eco and trail with turbo only very occasionally and for short bursts. Overall I get the impression that using a combination of the modes and gears to maintain a cadence around 80 and low torque on the cranks, delivers the best range. Predictive riding to maintain momentum and avoid heavy braking and acceleration also yields benefits. I have acceleration and shuttle set at zero.
 
Mikerb said:
I have never got below 25% battery left on my Levo with the 500 battery and the hardest/ longest ride was probably over the Brecon Beacons/The Gap. That was 25 miles and 2000 ft. I use 35/50/100 and on most rides I use eco and trail with turbo only very occasionally and for short bursts. Overall I get the impression that using a combination of the modes and gears to maintain a cadence around 80 and low torque on the cranks, delivers the best range. Predictive riding to maintain momentum and avoid heavy braking and acceleration also yields benefits. I have acceleration and shuttle set at zero.
Click to expand...

yesterday I did 20 miles and 4143ft climbing - had 3% battery left and zero assistance
today I did 22 miles and 4173 ft of climbing - had 7% of battery left and very small amount of assistance but not even my usual eco level

I think the trails around here are just punishing
 
dobbyhasfriends said:
yesterday I did 20 miles and 4143ft climbing - had 3% battery left and zero assistance
today I did 22 miles and 4173 ft of climbing - had 7% of battery left and very small amount of assistance but not even my usual eco level

I think the trails around here are just punishing
Click to expand...
I don't think it's ever possible to compare one persons results riding in one place with another persons riding in another place. I had a battery issue and spent weeks comparing figures and trying all sorts of configurations myself. It's sorted now, but I still get less than lots of other people seem to get - and less than I'd like in either eco or trail

Running Blevo will probably help you at least understand a bit, if you don't already (run blevo - rather than understand). At least you can see how you used the Wh's . It also speaks your battery level in stages, so you get more of a verbal idea what's going on during the ride.

Depending on your terrain, you don't necessarily get 3 or 4 times the distance in Eco 15/20 as you do in Turbo 100/100. Unless I'm riding relatively easy trails, where Eco will give me multiples of my Turbo distance, I only get about 20% further in Eco than Turbo !
 
Well I took my new Kenevo out today, so its first battery discharge. 28 Miles, 2200ft of Elevation, lots of mud and came back with 9%. Was quite impressed with that to be fair. My brother riding my Levo Expert on the same route came back with 40% but he is about 10kg lighter than me. Both bikes running the same setup. 0 shuttle and accel. 20/30 60/75 and 100/100.
 
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