Bafang m820

[Vsoria]

Chinese manufacturer Bafang is expanding its portfolio with the new M820 mid-engine. The model weighs only 2.3 kg and is lighter.

provides a nominal power of 250 W at a torque of 75 Nm. Depending on the application, speeds of 25 km/h, 32 km/h or even 45 km/h are possible.

Using a magnesium case not only leads to weight reduction, but also ensures higher corrosion resistance. In addition, the manufacturer promises a reduction in vibrations, which has a positive effect on the driving experience.

The Q-factor is also lower compared to previous models, meaning power transmission is more direct and lighter.

rocky mode button, as the function is also called, to overcome a small slope even faster

 

[Mabman]

Bafang M820: Neues Elektro-Mittelmotor-Flagschiff

Bafang stellt auf der Eurobike 2022 in Frankfurt das neue Mittelmotor-Flagschiff, den M820 vor. Der neue Mittelmotor bietet bis zu 75 Nm Drehmoment und kommt in einem Magnesiumgehäuse. Er soll sowohl in E-Mountainbikes als auch E-Roadbikes gute Dienste leisten.

www-notebookcheck-com.translate.goog

I like the low Q factor and 45kmh ability as well as the low weight. Not to be able to go 45kmh but to just not have a limiter basically. Would be interested in a 29"er 130mm model with a 500wh 2170 cell battery that should be able to be below 45lbs. easily to foil my M620 beast for more XC type riding. Whether or not they are going to get their CanBus act together and provide an app to allow fine tuning of the modes remains to be seen.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Do these mount the same as existing motors in the bafang family? Or is it a whole standard? (Ie who makes frames that fit this?)

 

[Vsoria]

Until it is officially presented, there is no more information, but if it has the same size as the m600, 500 and 510 and one can be removed and another inserted, it will be a good option. I see that the Forestal and bafang collaboration with the Eondrive now bafang has released a model that is very much like it.

 

[Mabman]

Do these mount the same as existing motors in the bafang family? Or is it a whole standard? (Ie who makes frames that fit this?)

I wondered that also and doing a quick comparison the mounting points are very similar visually but without knowing the actual measurements who knows?

DengFu makes the EO5 which is listed as a 120mm bike that can be ordered in 29" that is set up for the M500 series on their site. Would be nice to see it in 130 or 140 for a bit more down country ability but that would mean a new mould probably and a major commitment from someone to get that to happen....

I also wondered what influence the Eon drive had in this motor and figured it did have at least some. I haven't followed much about the Forestal bike to know how the Eon is performing.

 

[Vsoria]

supposedly the eondrive goes well with good power delivery for its 18kg of bicycle and 360Wh 51V battery, weight of 1.95kg, 170mm Q factor, 60nw, motor with titanium components and magnesium casing, more or less this m820

 

[temon10]

Until it is officially presented, there is no more information, but if it has the same size as the m600, 500 and 510 and one can be removed and another inserted, it will be a good option. I see that the Forestal and bafang collaboration with the Eondrive now bafang has released a model that is very much like it.

I haope it has the same mounting with M510/M600

 

[Mabman]

I haope it has the same mounting with M510/M600

Even if it doesn't I bet it wouldn't take rocket science to adapt one to an E10 or even E22 frame.

I hope they keep it throttle able I really like that feature for taking off.

 

[Peter A]

I would definitely put my money towards helping fund a new frame design. Especially if it was similar to the e10 but slimmer downtube with a battery around 400wh and modern geometry. Can't wait to see what options this new motor brings.

 

[Vsoria]

In this video in Spanish with subtitles in various languages.
you can see an image with the measurements and it does not match the m510 but the batteries BT F014 410w+ 252w and also that by 2023 there is already a frame for bafang m820

 

[Peter A]

Very nice indeed.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid026D7q3KrKNQ8ptPSjBjByctpKMQLVZY1mCkw5gV2UJ5E5ARvABnAkoGqQa9yB1Wjl&id=1730398740526533&sfnsn=mo

 

[R2thek]

I wondered that also and doing a quick comparison the mounting points are very similar visually but without knowing the actual measurements who knows?

DengFu makes the EO5 which is listed as a 120mm bike that can be ordered in 29" that is set up for the M500 series on their site. Would be nice to see it in 130 or 140 for a bit more down country ability but that would mean a new mould probably and a major commitment from someone to get that to happen....

I also wondered what influence the Eon drive had in this motor and figured it did have at least some. I haven't followed much about the Forestal bike to know how the Eon is performing.

Strange. That motor looks like the Eon motor Forestal uses—and now Forestal is calling it the F60-S1 motor, previously known as EonDrive. On the Forestal owners page I have not seen complaints about the motor as much as failures of the software/dashboard.

 

[Mabman]

Like I said I haven't been following the development of the Forestal other than noting that they had worked with Bafang to develop their motor. It doesn't surprise me that they are having software issues however because it seems like that is Bafangs weak point for some reason? The mechanical aspects of the motor can be sound but just not receiving the correct signals? Waited for a number of years for them to get the M600 right and it seems they are still working on it while evolving into the M510 along the way.

Not at all impressed with that pic above though but it looks computer generated and the motor/bb area looks way off? Would be nice if DengFu picks up on this but being a resident of the US and how funky they are with distributing framesets here I sent an inquiry to the Light Carbon contact that posts on here to see if they may be interested?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Like I said I haven't been following the development of the Forestal other than noting that they had worked with Bafang to develop their motor. It doesn't surprise me that they are having software issues however because it seems like that is Bafangs weak point for some reason? The mechanical aspects of the motor can be sound but just not receiving the correct signals? Waited for a number of years for them to get the M600 right and it seems they are still working on it while evolving into the M510 along the way.

Not at all impressed with that pic above though but it looks computer generated and the motor/bb area looks way off? Would be nice if DengFu picks up on this but being a resident of the US and how funky they are with distributing framesets here I sent an inquiry to the Light Carbon contact that posts on here to see if they may be interested?

Be nice to have Dengfu and Light Carbon M820 competing models

 

[Mabman]

Be nice to have Dengfu and Light Carbon M820 competing models

Unless the M820 will somehow adapt easily to the existing M5/600 frames another mold must be produced which is $$$$. So for the size of the potential market, which from my view is limited to the handy type cheapskate crowd, either will be going out on a financial limb.

But if a new frame mold has to be made it is an excellent opportunity to get it done right geometry wise which seems to be always a factor with Asian originated frames that tend to lag several years behind in regards to progression? Also how much suspension travel? Finding a company that is willing to listen and go that route could be an issue going forward.

What would make me happy is an under 45lb. bike that has a decent amount of current geo and suspension with good power and the ability to accept different Ah easily removable batteries. A few companies toy with this but none really take it all the way?

 

[R2thek]

Unless the M820 will somehow adapt easily to the existing M5/600 frames another mold must be produced which is $$$$. So for the size of the potential market, which from my view is limited to the handy type cheapskate crowd, either will be going out on a financial limb.

But if a new frame mold has to be made it is an excellent opportunity to get it done right geometry wise which seems to be always a factor with Asian originated frames that tend to lag several years behind in regards to progression? Also how much suspension travel? Finding a company that is willing to listen and go that route could be an issue going forward.

What would make me happy is an under 45lb. bike that has a decent amount of current geo and suspension with good power and the ability to accept different Ah easily removable batteries. A few companies toy with this but none really take it all the way?

For what its worth, Pivot says that the Shuttle is 45 pounds.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Unless the M820 will somehow adapt easily to the existing M5/600 frames another mold must be produced which is $$$$. So for the size of the potential market, which from my view is limited to the handy type cheapskate crowd, either will be going out on a financial limb.

But if a new frame mold has to be made it is an excellent opportunity to get it done right geometry wise which seems to be always a factor with Asian originated frames that tend to lag several years behind in regards to progression? Also how much suspension travel? Finding a company that is willing to listen and go that route could be an issue going forward.

What would make me happy is an under 45lb. bike that has a decent amount of current geo and suspension with good power and the ability to accept different Ah easily removable batteries. A few companies toy with this but none really take it all the way?

Well, I'm hearing a Bafang M820 fitted frame with Enduro geo maybe under 20 kg. Dengfu and Light Carbon are you listening?

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Well, I'm hearing a Bafang M820 fitted frame with Enduro geo maybe under 20 kg. Dengfu and Light Carbon are you listening?

Hey my friend, Lightcarbon is here, haha.
Recently we have been discussing the M820 motor, the biggest problem now is that the choice given by Bafang is only 36V/43V, the matching battery on EMTB is BT F014 which also 43V, and the battery length is very long, if it is installed in the down tube, it is difficult to have a beautiful frame geometry,
Our ideal situation is to find a replacement battery, about 600wh or more, if 720wh is better, (if it reaches 960wh, may be the length is too long)
However, now other brand battery manufacturers do not provide 43V batteries. If motor choose 36V, it is too small.
The damn 43V,

 

[temon10]

Hey my friend, Lightcarbon is here, haha.
Recently we have been discussing the M820 motor, the biggest problem now is that the choice given by Bafang is only 36V/43V, the matching battery on EMTB is BT F014 which also 43V, and the battery length is very long, if it is installed in the down tube, it is difficult to have a beautiful frame geometry,
Our ideal situation is to find a replacement battery, about 600wh or more, if 720wh is better, (if it reaches 960wh, may be the length is too long)
However, now other brand battery manufacturers do not provide 43V batteries. If motor choose 36V, it is too small.
The damn 43V,

It's not a problem with 36v motor for lightweight EMTB. pls use custom battery case, not bafang battery so we can create our own capacity.

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

It's not a problem with 36v motor for lightweight EMTB. pls use custom battery case, not bafang battery so we can create our own capacity.

anyone know the dimension of shimano EP801? seems Bafang M820 have the same dimension as EP801

 

[temon10]

anyone know the dimension of shimano EP801? seems Bafang M820 have the same dimension as EP801

just ask Patrol guy which have E-7 model used EP801, he said it almost the same with old EP8 so it's bigger than M820.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

just ask Patrol guy which have E-7 model used EP801, he said it almost the same with old EP8 so it's bigger than M820.

I hope that Light Carbon can develop a brand-new, Bafang M820 (43V) Enduro geo frame with 150/160 trunnion rear linkage similar to the LCES004 BUT using the lighter, slimmer, hidden downtube Bafang battery like the 410 Wh BT-F011 (43V) dimensions (L375 mm x W65 mm) or similar wattage.

Unfortunately, Bafang currently (from Bafang website) pairs the new M820 system with a 210 Wh battery that might just be too small to have enough practical range for most trail riders. I would just rather backpack a spare 410 Wh battery than carry a much smaller battery extender for double the range. IMHO

The advantage of course, would be that if the lighter M820 really puts out 75 Nm, with the smaller battery, and then SHAVES a whopping 7-10 lbs off the total weight, giving the frame a slimmer, stealthier profile like the Trek Fuel Ex-e or the Transition Relay, well that would be a total GAME CHANGER!

I believe that many full-power, Bafangers would be willing to invest in and purchase multiple frames per household.

OR just simply develop a slim downtube battery box that one can build up a DIY battery that goes with the new frame. Like temon10 said.


Jim at Light Carbon are you listening?

 

[Mabman]

FYI the battery solution is relatively easy actually. Only hold up is Bafangs proprietary BMS that serves the CanBus protocols but in the past I found out that they are willing to share that information at least with OEM's. But it seems like there are folks building batteries for their M510-M620 with CanBus and they aren't mentioning any particular BMS needs?

Most manufacturers prefer to see a cased battery go out with their products as opposed to wrapped ones it seems? To my mind if properly installed and protected there really is no difference between the two. Reason being that if a new case needs to be designed/made that could add extra cost and take up more space actually + add weight. So I think a well wrapped enclosed battery would be the easiest solution made by a reputable manufacturer to spec over in China of quality 5A cells and let LC design around that. Personally I would aim for a 400-500wh 48v battery. Carry an extra somewhere for really long days but one is plenty for daily riding?

What I am looking for is not the lightest eBike which sacrifices range and power to get there as well as looking as non ebike as possible which anymore to me seems like a moot point with a bike that weighs less than the full fat bikes by enough margin to make them attractive yet still provide as close an experience power wise to full fat. A 140-150mm travel 44 lb bike would be fine with me. Oh, and cost completed around $5k being realistic and adding nice components. And modern geo too.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yes the M600 CAN motors will plug and play with home built batteries, you just don’t get some of the info from the displays. It’s quite surprising how much smaller and lighter a 14S2P 21700 actually is over a cased factory battery.

We have to get out of ours heads the idea of a lightweight having the same range and power or near enough to a full fat. It just will not happen. Better to follow the FAZUA EZesty route where all E components are smaller and lighter, they are afterall a different category. However don’t knock that 400w’s 360whs combination, for those who trail ride regularly and want to have that analogue feeling with just a boost occasionally, then they are a joy to ride.

Now owning all 3 forms, which bike do I prefer. Well I’ve now sold my analogue, it was never getting ridden. It also depends on who I’m riding which sort of dictates the bike along with the route and obstacles along the way to be lifted over.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I'm for building a 21700 cell battery softpack if it's the last option. Most don't have the knowledge, experience, and confidence to build one. I'm barely learning myself, and have to make a 48 V soft 900-1000 Wh for my other LCES004. But I think most a want pre-built case battery from someone:third-party or Bafang. Mainly, I would argue for convenience in general, and then swapping multiple spares on a long ride and/or over an extended camping etc.

On the M820 variants, Jim at LC says only 36 V and 43 V are available, so a 48V MAY not be available. The Bafang website doesn't the list motor voltage yet unfortunately , so maybe it does exist? Given the M820 appears to be designed for the newer and lighter weight E-MTB class, the 48 V would have more coil wire, enough to add another pound or so, if it's like my M600 43V v. My 48 V motor in comparison.

The lighter E-mtb class for big manufacturers like Trek, Specialized, Orbea, and Transition appear to be shooting for under 40 lbs/18kgs, so it's seems like 36/43 V battery system is more likely to be lighter and efficient enough. The great strength of a 40 lb M820 carbon frame with a purported 75 Nm (hoping but still skeptical) is that it is the sweet-spot for many...if the battery can remain light as well, so "medium" power and medium to longer range with the nicer "analogue-handling-feel" of a lighter E-mtb on the trail? That to me is in the Goldilocks Zone!

However, I'll wait a few more seasons to see how things develop. I'm happy with M600 LCES, especially if I can build my 900-1000 Wh 48V soft pack on my second rig

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Yes the M600 CAN motors will plug and play with home built batteries, you just don’t get some of the info from the displays. It’s quite surprising how much smaller and lighter a 14S2P 21700 actually is over a cased factory battery.

We have to get out of ours heads the idea of a lightweight having the same range and power or near enough to a full fat. It just will not happen. Better to follow the FAZUA EZesty route where all E components are smaller and lighter, they are afterall a different category. However don’t knock that 400w’s 360whs combination, for those who trail ride regularly and want to have that analogue feeling with just a boost occasionally, then they are a joy to ride.

Now owning all 3 forms, which bike do I prefer. Well I’ve now sold my analogue, it was never getting ridden. It also depends on who I’m riding which sort of dictates the bike along with the route and obstacles along the way to be lifted over.

I've only ridden the Specialized Levo SL last year for a long weekend. It was nice but still underpowered for my needs. I couldn't keep up as a fairly well-conditioned E-mtber with the high powered E-mtbers with same fitness level they were riding in the medium "trail power" mode of their EP8 motored rigs. But I think the Trek Fuel EX-e and/or the Transition Relay would likely better meet my needs...but cost way too much! So, an M820 with a little more torque at 1/3 of price of the high-end Fuels/Relay....I could buy two baby...so hells yeah...start making the M820 Enduro carbon frames please!

 

[temon10]

I've only ridden the Specialized Levo SL last year for a long weekend. It was nice but still underpowered for my needs. I couldn't keep up as a fairly well-conditioned E-mtber with the high powered E-mtbers with same fitness level they were riding in the medium "trail power" mode of their EP8 motored rigs. But I think the Trek Fuel EX-e and/or the Transition Relay would likely better meet my needs...but cost way too much! So, an M820 with a little more torque at 1/3 of price of the high-end Fuels/Relay....I could buy two baby...so hells yeah...start making the M820 Enduro carbon frames please!

we are on the same boat mate

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

I hope that Light Carbon can develop a brand-new, Bafang M820 (43V) Enduro geo frame with 150/160 trunnion rear linkage similar to the LCES004 BUT using the lighter, slimmer, hidden downtube Bafang battery like the 410 Wh BT-F011 (43V) dimensions (L375 mm x W65 mm) or similar wattage.

Unfortunately, Bafang currently (from Bafang website) pairs the new M820 system with a 210 Wh battery that might just be too small to have enough practical range for most trail riders. I would just rather backpack a spare 410 Wh battery than carry a much smaller battery extender for double the range. IMHO

The advantage of course, would be that if the lighter M820 really puts out 75 Nm, with the smaller battery, and then SHAVES a whopping 7-10 lbs off the total weight, giving the frame a slimmer, stealthier profile like the Trek Fuel Ex-e or the Transition Relay, well that would be a total GAME CHANGER!

I believe that many full-power, Bafangers would be willing to invest in and purchase multiple frames per household.

OR just simply develop a slim downtube battery box that one can build up a DIY battery that goes with the new frame. Like temon10 said.


Jim at Light Carbon are you listening?

Hey, i'm here.
First, we will develop a frame that uses M820, but the battery also uses Bafang's battery, as for our own battery, it takes time.
the standard battery for M820 is BT F04, 410wh, 43V, about 2.6kgs,
A spare battery site will be reserved at the water bottle cage, but spare batteries may not be provided, and buyers who need it will buy it by themselves
the EMTB frame fit for M820 will not the big travel 150-160mm, only about 130mm in our plan, this model not fit for enduro EMTB, the MAX effective torque is 75Nm, and 120rpm.
rear shock will be 185*55 trunnion mount, also accept the rear shock with piggy back design and coil design.
now only one question ,It is difficult to remove the battery BT F014. Once the battery has a problem and needs to be removed, it may be necessary to remove the motor first.

 

[temon10]

Hey, i'm here.
First, we will develop a frame that uses M820, but the battery also uses Bafang's battery, as for our own battery, it takes time.
the standard battery for M820 is BT F04, 410wh, 43V, about 2.6kgs,
A spare battery site will be reserved at the water bottle cage, but spare batteries may not be provided, and buyers who need it will buy it by themselves
the EMTB frame fit for M820 will not the big travel 150-160mm, only about 130mm in our plan, this model not fit for enduro EMTB, the MAX effective torque is 75Nm, and 120rpm.
rear shock will be 185*55 trunnion mount, also accept the rear shock with piggy back design and coil design.
now only one question ,It is difficult to remove the battery BT F014. Once the battery has a problem and needs to be removed, it may be necessary to remove the motor first.

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View attachment 93973

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pls make 150-160mm version. u will get more buyer than 130mm fork support.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

pls make 150-160mm version. u will get more buyer than 130mm fork support.

I agree.

While I'm not in the market for a small motor emtb. I reckon that would be more preferable than something with 130mm of travel.