Bafang M560

[Sayonara]

Yeah, there was a button on old Besst (not Besst Pro), but I think it never did anything.

Do you have a 1.5 I could flash? Knowing I run a 48V15A battery, so maybe someone has the appropriate .bin for a 15A battery?

Do you mean 15Ah or 15A?

 

[tbeaugelin]

Is also in Besst Pro. And bet it does something. It will store into controller registers the position of magnets to windings to have smooth starts of motor. On first sight it does nothing as your controller was calibrated from factory. But when you replace controller you must run it. Some controllers comes without calibration run, so then you getting Hall error straight.

15A battery is not good for M560 (but battery and BMS will give you more). Even 500W firmware is taking 19A.

Yeah no I'm talking about the Calibrate Torque sensor button on old Besst, I know what position does

I guess that 15A is a bit small for a M560, saddly there is not higher capacity battery for the LCE971, or is there?

Thanks for the .bin, I'm testing it tonight!

 

[tbeaugelin]

Do you mean 15Ah or 15A?

It's a 15Ah battery, 720Wh

 

[Dado]

Yep, we need to differentiate Ah and A. Thats like apples and pears.

Calibration of Torque sensor was not enabled for CAN M series. I saw it on M620 UART.

 

[tbeaugelin]

Yep, we need to differentiate Ah and A. Thats like apples and pears.

Calibration of Torque sensor was not enabled for CAN M series. I saw it on M620 UART.

So, I tested the .bin you provided (4819 500W), left everything to default but changed accel to 8. Besides what I felt to be a small but noticable power loss (mainly on the uphills), I can still feel the random overrun, sometimes I get 0,2s, sometimes more than 2s. I used the same amount of battery on a given trip (40%) as when I was using 4825 750W.

So my two questions now are:
1- could the random overrun be linked to a faulty torque sensor, that sometimes assume more torque than what's given?
2- @Dado what are the differences between the 4819 500W and the 4825 750W, because I did not felt much. Could you maybe send a 4825 1.5 with which you don't feel much overrun please?

 

[xtraman122]

So, I tested the .bin you provided (4819 500W), left everything to default but changed accel to 8. Besides what I felt to be a small but noticable power loss (mainly on the uphills), I can still feel the random overrun, sometimes I get 0,2s, sometimes more than 2s. I used the same amount of battery on a given trip (40%) as when I was using 4825 750W.

So my two questions now are:
1- could the random overrun be linked to a faulty torque sensor, that sometimes assume more torque than what's given?
2- @Dado what are the differences between the 4819 500W and the 4825 750W, because I did not felt much. Could you maybe send a 4825 1.5 with which you don't feel much overrun please?

2s is a TON of overrun, I can’t even imagine the motor running that long after stopping. That really sounds like something must be wrong. Maybe not even necessarily torque sensor but could be a cadence sensor as well? Thinks you’re still moving the pedals and applies a slight bit of power assuming you want to keep moving or something.

 

[tbeaugelin]

2s is a TON of overrun, I can’t even imagine the motor running that long after stopping. That really sounds like something must be wrong. Maybe not even necessarily torque sensor but could be a cadence sensor as well? Thinks you’re still moving the pedals and applies a slight bit of power assuming you want to keep moving or something.

Yeah, it's sometimes crazy, and from time to time, I don't even need presure on the pedals, just pedaling without load triggers the motor, hence why I think I must have a faulty component.

 

[xtraman122]

Yeah, it's sometimes crazy, and from time to time, I don't even need presure on the pedals, just pedaling without load triggers the motor, hence why I think I must have a faulty component.

That definitely sounds faulty. I noticed my motor doesn’t even engage just spinning the pedals on the stand because it’s not enough torque just from my hand spinning the cranks. Only got it to engage a few times after really pushing hard with my hands trying to pedal it fast.

 

[tbeaugelin]

That definitely sounds faulty. I noticed my motor doesn’t even engage just spinning the pedals on the stand because it’s not enough torque just from my hand spinning the cranks. Only got it to engage a few times after really pushing hard with my hands trying to pedal it fast.

Yeah I can hear it triggers while I'm coasting downhill, just spining the cranks

 

[Dado]

So it explain everything, if motor starting with very small power on pedals. It should not start the motor when you have rear wheel in the air and you rotating with pedals. Only when you hold rear brake. (Or strong push on small cog).

So must be something wrong with torque sensor. Is giving some false signal (from torque sensor is going pas signal and force signal) and then motor running longer as should.

Had 3 M560 and have not noticed any over run.

Difference is in max current 19A vs 25A. I am using now v1.5 from April, which I shared. Will try to record today my over run.
Getting sick of that torque sensor failures. How come they can mot do it properly.

 

[xtraman122]

So it explain everything, if motor starting with very small power on pedals. It should not start the motor when you have rear wheel in the air and you rotating with pedals. Only when you hold rear brake.

So must be something wrong with torque sensor. Is giving some false signal (from torque sensor is going pas signal and force signal) and then motor running longer as should.

Had 3 M560 and have not noticed any over run.

Difference is in max current 19A vs 25A. I am using now v1.5 from April, which I shared. Will try to record today my over run.
Getting sick of that torque sensor failures. How come they can mot do it properly.

Maybe that’s why they have a new version version coming out, couldn’t figure out how fix the old one

 

[Dado]

Lets hope will be more reliable. Also new speedsensor is heading on us. Lets see if bring some advantage. From theory you can better controll traction. Just as I know Bafang we will have just more problems with this. Have already 500W firmware for this new speed disc.

Tbeaugelin, how much km u have on a motor?

I managed to break one way gear after 800km. But heavy use.
30Euro new gear - not bad.

 

[Sayonara]

So it explain everything, if motor starting with very small power on pedals. It should not start the motor when you have rear wheel in the air and you rotating with pedals. Only when you hold rear brake. (Or strong push on small cog).

So must be something wrong with torque sensor. Is giving some false signal (from torque sensor is going pas signal and force signal) and then motor running longer as should.

Had 3 M560 and have not noticed any over run.

Difference is in max current 19A vs 25A. I am using now v1.5 from April, which I shared. Will try to record today my over run.
Getting sick of that torque sensor failures. How come they can mot do it properly.

Can you share the same files but as 750w version? Since I understood the earlier file you shared was for the 500w?

 

[xtraman122]

Can you share the same files but as 750w version? Since I understood the earlier file you shared was for the 500w?

They don’t necessarily update the 500W and 750W versions at the same cadence which is what’s strange. 500W has seemingly had more versions released than 750W.

 

[Dado]

Have shared also 750W firmware.

Guys do not speculate much about bafang firmwares, you wont get any super useful and new feature. We should be happy when it does not have any noticable bugs. (And for me if is not lazy - this trend I see recently - to avoid warranties )
V1.5 is fine and "racing" style.
I have noticed bugs 12y back in bbs02 and bbs HD. Thought they learned something since then to CAN busses, but they didnt. And still some weired bugs, which is very simple to solve just by proper coding. I was so pissed, when they started to ship HD controllers with faulty throttle behaviour, and previous version was just fine - throttle should override pedalling.

Fun will be over if they disable throttle for good.

 

[Sayonara]

They don’t necessarily update the 500W and 750W versions at the same cadence which is what’s strange. 500W has seemingly had more versions released than 750W.

That's weird...

 

[xtraman122]

That's weird...

Yeah it makes absolutely no sense at all, especially with these seemingly different versions of “1.5” that have different build dates. This is the sort of nonsensical crap that’ll make me not buy another Bafang again. You’d think the 500W and 750W firmwares would be released at the same exact cadence with the same fixes seeing as they’re identical hardware with only a different current limiter allowing the higher power.

 

[Sayonara]

Have shared also 750W firmware.

Guys do not speculate much about bafang firmwares, you wont get any super useful and new feature. We should be happy when it does not have any noticable bugs. (And for me if is not lazy - this trend I see recently - to avoid warranties )

Fun will be over if they disable throttle for good.

Okey thank you. I will try to browse your posts and find it.

I will not buy a motor without a throttle. It opens so many options while driving and gives me the ability to keep one settings on the motor and still be able to drive in the forest/trails and my commute to work.

 

[freextr]

Lets hope will be more reliable. Also new speedsensor is heading on us. Lets see if bring some advantage. From theory you can better controll traction. Just as I know Bafang we will have just more problems with this. Have already 500W firmware for this new speed disc.

Tbeaugelin, how much km u have on a motor?

I managed to break one way gear after 800km. But heavy use.
30Euro new gear - not bad.

Source for this info? this is the type of sensor that markhor kunlun has? maybe this is why markhore firmware is not that good as its made mainly for that type of sensor?

 

[xtraman122]

Source for this info? this is the type of sensor that markhor kunlun has? maybe this is why markhore firmware is not that good as its made mainly for that type of sensor?

They showed it off at Eurobike, it's going to be released with the new M510 RS. New torque sensor, new rotor based sensor, some additional power output presumably from some firmware tweaks, and I believe one other new sensor. Not supposed to be available until around the end of the year though.

 

[freextr]

not in a hurry just bought a m560 and loving it
Id like to have a m510 too for comparison and as a backup or maybe even to be legal for some emtb races if I get to it

 

[Dado]

They showed it already. And Markhor even sent this speed disc to one customer. Of course rear triangle was not prepared for new speed sensor and also motor was showing very high speed(so no assisting). Markhor was convincing customer, everything should be ok (this put me back in buying markhor frame). Then after complains Markhor asked Bafang, they compiled M560 firmware for 42 "magnets". But just 500W version.

How hard is to put one additional setting to Besst, where you just select number of magnets? BBR Ultimate will have it selectable.

One good thing with this speed disc - you can easily extend your speed limit with speed disc with less holes. And is cheap to laser or water cut custom disc.

M560 is very good motor, just bafang is messing it, with kids bugs. Also though new firmwares will be still better and better and bugs removed. Not true. I noticed old bugs did show up again in new firmwares. Looks to me they starting developement of new firmwares with different team of programmers.

Dream will be if they put there planetary gear as DJI.

 

[tbeaugelin]

De

Lets hope will be more reliable. Also new speedsensor is heading on us. Lets see if bring some advantage. From theory you can better controll traction. Just as I know Bafang we will have just more problems with this. Have already 500W firmware for this new speed disc.

Tbeaugelin, how much km u have on a motor?

I managed to break one way gear after 800km. But heavy use.
30Euro new gear - not bad.

I'm at about 4800km with the motor, but this behavior of motor starting with little to no force on the pedal was from day one

Let's say my torque sensor is faulty. Where is the best place to buy spares? I bought my motor from GreenBikeKit, and know they sell parts, but delivery time were off charts, and pricey... Any good, reliable place?

 

[Dado]

If from day 1 try to convince them to send you spare torque sensor for free.

Or go for Chili. She is nice, can speak good English (which is rare) and also is dealing with warranties.

 

[tbeaugelin]

If from day 1 try to convince them to send you spare torque sensor for free.

Or go for Chili. She is nice, can speak good English (which is rare) and also is dealing with warranties.

Any way to contact this Chili person?

 

[Dado]

Here is the video of over-run with fw v1.5.


Somebody can measure it according video frames. As I wrote, I have not noticed any long over-run with any v1.5. Had them all in a motor and tested. That one with different pre-set battery capacity was behaving strange with low battery voltage, motor was shutting off even at 15% - maybe some wrong SOC estimation.

 

[tbeaugelin]

Here is the video of over-run with fw v1.5.


Somebody can measure it according video frames. As I wrote, I have not noticed any long over-run with any v1.5. Had them all in a motor and tested. That one with different pre-set battery capacity was behaving strange with low battery voltage, motor was shutting off even at 15% - maybe some wrong SOC estimation.

Yeah, mine really has much more overrun. I'll try to record it too, so you can see.

 

[Misenko]

Hi guys, I want to buy E82 with M560 but saw some videos of the first revisions of these motors to be extremely loud. I wonder if latest revision after April 2024 is really "quieter" or not. I saw this video where the guy is saying he tested the motor with "new quiet gear" - not exactly sure what he means but he said he is very pleased with it. What are you experiences with it. I was even thinking to take M510 because of this but not sure if the power will be sufficient. Thanks.

 

[xtraman122]

Hi guys, I want to buy E82 with M560 but saw some videos of the first revisions of these motors to be extremely loud. I wonder if latest revision after April 2024 is really "quieter" or not. I saw this video where the guy is saying he tested the motor with "new quiet gear" - not exactly sure what he means but he said he is very pleased with it. What are you experiences with it. I was even thinking to take M510 because of this but not sure if the power will be sufficient. Thanks.

There was an obvious improvement with that “silent” version update. They supposedly did something with the gears to improve it, but it’s still not considered a very quiet motor. Maybe just above average noise, nothing awful but not super quiet either.

Unless you want a ton of power I’d honestly go for a new M510 as well. I have an M560 and it has way more power than I ever use, the highest assist level I use has like 55% of max power. I’d gladly trade the power for the quietness and less weight of the M510 if I were to do it again.

 

[Misenko]

There was an obvious improvement with that “silent” version update. They supposedly did something with the gears to improve it, but it’s still not considered a very quiet motor. Maybe just above average noise, nothing awful but not super quiet either.

Unless you want a ton of power I’d honestly go for a new M510 as well. I have an M560 and it has way more power than I ever use, the highest assist level I use has like 55% of max power. I’d gladly trade the power for the quietness and less weight of the M510 if I were to do it again.

Thanks, that's a good point. I'm quite heavy like 120kg geared so some extra power is not bad sometimes. I currently have Bosch cx gen.4 and it is also louder than previous gen.3. Don't know how to compare with M560 though when it comes to noise. But power wise I'm pretty fine with Bosch, only sometimes I can feel it looses power in some steeper ascents (but admit it's also because of my weight). I guess M510 is a bit more powerful than bosch cx gen. 4 (at least on paper 110 vs 85Nm) but still it's hard to decide. M560 is unlocked to 45km/h which is a plus while M510 is locked to 25km/h which also makes me crazy. I have this power limit on Bosch and it's annoying sometimes. Don't know how hard would be to unlock M510.