Bafang M560

[Dado]

Shaking?

So now Bafang has normal values? Till now their dyno was wrongly calibrated, or what? Of course I do not attacking you. Just making fun of Bafang. As it is nonsense just to renumber it on a webpage. It is just marketing move, you know numbers are selling.

I still think they would put out a firmware with little more Amps, like from 25 to 27A, then It would match that mumbers.

Gonna try to write to that german guy with dyno. I am willing to go with my M560 to Germany, if he would agree.

 

[Yasind76]

Shaking?

So now Bafang has normal values? Till now their dyno was wrongly calibrated, or what? Of course I do not attacking you. Just making fun of Bafang. As it is nonsense just to renumber it on a webpage. It is just marketing move, you know numbers are selling.

I still think they would put out a firmware with little more Amps, like from 25 to 27A, then It would match that mumbers.

Gonna try to write to that german guy with dyno. I am willing to go with my M560 to Germany, if he would agree.

Yeah I dont get it either, on bafang site its noted that 750W version has 27A current max tho. Just no firmwares released yet or anything i think.

Seeing the results from the dyno guy would be nice.

The shaking comes from like where the cranks are attached, its like when u activate the motor with pedaling and when it starts spinning the cranks or that whole metal thing the cranks are attached to shake. U dont have this? Its not very noticeable but its there

 

[Dado]

Hmm, there is written current? Have not noticed it. So then it has a sense, just missing a date, when possible to buy with new firmware.
And I guess M510RS will be with 22A.

Never saw this. You mean whole axle is shaking? Strange. Thats for opening up motor and to check HW.

Also when I turn on motor with pedalling, theres no shaking, just assistance not working, till you stop pedalling (thats safety feature).

 

[Dado]

Shaking, vibrations can come from the rotor, when phase currents are out of sync. (Wrong hall sensors, calibration). But then vibrating whole motor and you can feel it over the frame even in your ass. )
Should be gone with better controllers in higher RPMs.

 

[Yasind76]

No shaking the whole bike or ass just a little shake at the pedal when motor gets activated because of PAS then it returns to normal and no shaking while i continue pedaling.

i will try retightning chainring and checking casette and motor mounts again. Because motor mount actually had came lose a few days ago and i think i only torqued it to 28nm instead of the 34nm but i dont think it would make a big difference?

 

[Dado]

Not sure. Should have tried it, to examine. Did not feel any vibrations on cranks and lot of M510, M600, M560 went under my hands. Thats all same motors. M620 Inno is giving me vibrations into ma ass. )

28Nm is fine, it is not because of this. No need to waste time with bolts.

 

[xtraman122]

Seems weird Bafang has seemingly updated the 500W M560 firmware a few times, but the 750W is still the original one from March of 2024? I asked Chili for the current firmware what she sent me has 20240312 in the file name so I’m assuming it’s that old.

You can flash the 750W with the 500W firmware right? I’ve been considering it because I don’t need any of the additional power, I operate at 40-50% assist levels on my 750W, it has ridiculous power.

 

[Dado]

Ofc, you can flash to 500W firmware. Then consider also M510, if you not going full throttle.

Or no need even to flash to 500W, just change max power to some lower values, it is practically the same.

 

[xtraman122]

Ofc, you can flash to 500W firmware. Then consider also M510, if you not going full throttle.

Or no need even to flash to 500W, just change max power to some lower values, it is practically the same.

Right, that’s what I’ve done now, I modified my first 3 assist levels to be the only ones I use and the highest one is only 50% of total power I believe. I was afraid an M510 would have been too weak going into it but in reality it probably would have been perfect. I’m interested in the new M510 RS but don’t really have a need for a new motor, I just like new stuff and envy the quietness the M510 offers.

 

[Dado]

Lets see when RS will be introduced.
It is 50% of the max current. So 12.5A, not much. Peaking 620W electrical.

 

[Freda]

I asked for a quote for the CEF69 with M510 RS motor from SCCZ. They said it is still not on the market, but they will supply M510 ver 3.0 which is according to them same motor hardware wise. I could then later change firmware to M510 RS firmware. This sounds a bit too easy to be true..

 

[xtraman122]

I asked for a quote for the CEF69 with M510 RS motor from SCCZ. They said it is still not on the market, but they will supply M510 ver 3.0 which is according to them same motor hardware wise. I could then later change firmware to M510 RS firmware. This sounds a bit too easy to be true..

I think someone said they don’t expect the RS to be available until somewhere around the end of the year. It actually wouldn’t surprise me too much if what they said is true, because I would think the RS may just become the only version of the M510 they produce once it’s available. The M510 has been around for a while and they might just view the RS as being the new version of it. It was supposedly just 1 or 2 new sensors and the rest is firmware stuff, so if the 3.0 hardware includes those new sensors I guess I could see it happening.

 

[tbeaugelin]

Hey guys, new member here!

I've built myself an LCE971 with M560, and am quite happy with it, except for a few minors things. Done 4800km with it, no maintenance done inside the engine, so that's good!

I've seen people complaints that their bike sometimes cutoff when being low in battery, and I had that happen to me too (sudden drop from 3 bar to 1 flashing red bar on DP E181), and I understand that it comes from the fact that the battery is a "dumb" one, providing only positive and negative with no communication, so high power + low battery = sudden cut off.
My question is, I've seen @xtraman122, in post #537, talk about using the SYR014 in a Dengfu E82, so does that mean I can use a E82 battery inside my LCE971? Because I think it's a CAN communication battery? If so, where could I buy the battery with the approriate hardware to put it inside the LCE971?

Next, I find that the M560 has way too much overrun, despite me having turned down accel to 1 on all levels of assistance. Is this something I can résolve by flashing another FW? I have access to a Besst. You'll find a screenshot of my current config for my M560, as well as a picture of the general finished bike.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Dado]

Hello mate.

Acceleration does not have anything with over-run. Put it on reasonable level, with 1 it is lazy. Ramp up power to requested power takes 2.25s - you can see this from second graph. I am riding level 8.

PLease share first sreen, what firmware you have.
I am wondering, as hearing this often, M560 and overrun many times. With firmware v1.5 there is no over-run (or very small, everything under 0.4s is fine - it is not possible to make to 0s as there needs to be some timeout). Bafang is sending v. 1.5 for over a year. Just recently I saw on a label some other version (dont remmeber, but something like v32.5)
Is true, there was more versions of firmware v1.5 - which is not wise from Bafang. (how hard is to differentiate them to 1.51 1.52 and so on)

From 3 bar to flashing 1 is not ok. Could be some fault with battery or you just loosing CAN communication to display, then display is showing 0%

Assistance 61% is rather low, but as everybody likes.

With CAN battery you can get more juice from battery (depends, how was BMS set). Or you can use BBR device and go as low as 2.8V per cell.

 

[xtraman122]

Hey guys, new member here!

I've built myself an LCE971 with M560, and am quite happy with it, except for a few minors things. Done 4800km with it, no maintenance done inside the engine, so that's good!

I've seen people complaints that their bike sometimes cutoff when being low in battery, and I had that happen to me too (sudden drop from 3 bar to 1 flashing red bar on DP E181), and I understand that it comes from the fact that the battery is a "dumb" one, providing only positive and negative with no communication, so high power + low battery = sudden cut off.
My question is, I've seen @xtraman122, in post #537, talk about using the SYR014 in a Dengfu E82, so does that mean I can use a E82 battery inside my LCE971? Because I think it's a CAN communication battery? If so, where could I buy the battery with the approriate hardware to put it inside the LCE971?

Next, I find that the M560 has way too much overrun, despite me having turned down accel to 1 on all levels of assistance. Is this something I can résolve by flashing another FW? I have access to a Besst. You'll find a screenshot of my current config for my M560, as well as a picture of the general finished bike.

Thanks for any help!

View attachment 165888 View attachment 165889

You definitely can't just drop in an E82 battery into the LightCarbon frame as-is, they have unique casings that aren't compatible with each-other. I just sort of ended up in the weird position of having the extra SYR014 battery when I pivoted way from the LCE971 frame after it having continuous delays. As an experiment I bought an empty E82 battery case and was able to squeeze the pack from the SYR014 battery into that case, but it was just sort of luck that it fit in there. I wouldn't expect the opposite to work though, the E82 case has plastic cell holders in it that perfectly align with the metal battery casing, and the pack itself is considerably larger (Almost 300Wh more capacity). The lack of a proper CAN battery pack on the LCE971 is definitely a detractor. Not that it makes a huge difference, but having the proper integration and more intelligent BMS communication is definitely nice to have. I most often use my "dumb" 720Wh pack from the LightCarbon frame just due to the lower weight, it still has more than enough capacity for the types of rides that I do.

@Dado I too am interested in the firmware situation on the M560. There is seemingly this one v1.5 out there, but I find it very hard to believe in that in well over a year there hasn't been any update from Bafang on it, especially considering the different reports people have of the behaviors between motors.

 

[Dado]

You definitely can't just drop in an E82 battery into the LightCarbon frame as-is, they have unique casings that aren't compatible with each-other. I just sort of ended up in the weird position of having the extra SYR014 battery when I pivoted way from the LCE971 frame after it having continuous delays. As an experiment I bought an empty E82 battery case and was able to squeeze the pack from the SYR014 battery into that case, but it was just sort of luck that it fit in there. I wouldn't expect the opposite to work though, the E82 case has plastic cell holders in it that perfectly align with the metal battery casing, and the pack itself is considerably larger (Almost 300Wh more capacity). The lack of a proper CAN battery pack on the LCE971 is definitely a detractor. Not that it makes a huge difference, but having the proper integration and more intelligent BMS communication is definitely nice to have. I most often use my "dumb" 720Wh pack from the LightCarbon frame just due to the lower weight, it still has more than enough capacity for the types of rides that I do.

@Dado I too am interested in the firmware situation on the M560. There is seemingly this one v1.5 out there, but I find it very hard to believe in that in well over a year there hasn't been any update from Bafang on it, especially considering the different reports people have of the behaviors between motors.

They shipping with v1.5 over a year.
As I wrote I had like 3 firmwares marked v1.5 but had different compilation date and size. So there was some updates on v1.5

But since first v1.5 I did not notice over-run. And I am sensitive to this, usually very good seen when you stopping on lights down to 0kmh and you lightly rotating pedals while braking. Then when stopped completely you feel motor is trying to push over the brakes. Also on technical trails you can feel it.

For me is over-run contra productive as I am using throttle in hard terrains.

 

[xtraman122]

They shipping with v1.5 over a year.
As I wrote I had like 3 firmwares marked v1.5 but had different compilation date and size. So there was some updates on v1.5
But since first v1.5 I did not notice over-run. And I am sensitive to this, usually very good seen when you stopping on lights down to 0kmh and you lightly rotating pedals while braking. Then when stopped completely you feel motor is trying to push over the brakes. Also on technical trails you can feel it.

For me is over-run contra productive as I am using throttle in hard terrains.

Mine absolutely has overrun, I usually like it, only occasionally finding it annoying. Not sure how well I could measure it, but it's fairly obvious that the motor keeps running after I abruptly stop the pedals. Mine was ordered last year right after they released the "silent" version and did the re-release of the 750W, because I think they had only been doing the 500W for a while.

 

[Dado]

Just to suddenly stop pedalling and watch chainring how long rotates.
Just had also experience with time dilation with some users. People are telling me it is 2s when it is less then 0.5s. )

 

[Sayonara]

They shipping with v1.5 over a year.
As I wrote I had like 3 firmwares marked v1.5 but had different compilation date and size. So there was some updates on v1.5
View attachment 165890

But since first v1.5 I did not notice over-run. And I am sensitive to this, usually very good seen when you stopping on lights down to 0kmh and you lightly rotating pedals while braking. Then when stopped completely you feel motor is trying to push over the brakes. Also on technical trails you can feel it.

For me is over-run contra productive as I am using throttle in hard terrains.

Once my new controller arrives I hope it is the same v1.5 as I had before.. extremely minimal over run and it was perfect in every way for my riding.

I requested a v1.5 but I hope I'm getting the same version instead of a one with over run.

Sadly Bafang took over a week to send more controllers to their Poland warehouse so I still have to wait probably at least 2 weeks for it to arrive in Finland and be installed into my motor etc.


@Dado would you be able to send me to correct v1.5 files to compere to the ones they will send me?

 

[xtraman122]

Just to suddenly stop pedalling and watch chainring how long rotates.
Just had also experience with time dilation with some users. People are telling me it is 2s when it is less then 0.5s. )

Definitely nowhere near 2s, I'd say it's much closer to that .5s mark, maybe just under a full second at most.

For what it's worth, below is the file Chile Shen sent me that she claimed is the current one for the 750W M560. Obviously the date in that file is pretty old, and none of us can directly interact with Bafang to find out what the actual latest is, so this is the mess we end up with.

 

[Dado]

Yes, the sellers are telling this - it is the latest. And compiling date is over 1y old.
They dont have a clue about behaviour of firmwares.

1 second you can feel a lot. I would say it is less than 0.4s

Guys, if somebody has that new version 32.4 please share. Hence only 500W version. New torque sensor here also (I guess that new one with better resolution - which would end up even in lower over run - finally Bafang did hear the complain of users)

Here that other version 1.5 from April

 

[tbeaugelin]

@Dado I'm running the 1.5 that you offer from your website, the samples one that can be downloaded.

Overrun is for sure present, and much more than .4~.5s. For a bit of context, I'm a mechanic in an ebike specific shop, and am used to ride on a lot of different brands of motor (Bafang rear and mid, Bosch, Shimano, Brose...) and I find this overrun pretty crazy.

I put the accel to 1 in order to have a pretty linear feel (as shown in the graphs), but you say 8 would be more precise?

@xtraman122 Thanks for the infos. Do you, or anyone else, have knowledge of a SYR014 with Bafang CAN BMS? Can I order it Somewhere and do my own pack with it, I can't seems to find one...

 

[Yasind76]

Hello, I agree the bafang m560 definitely has overrun too but sometimes it's unnoticeable and sometimes it's very noticable.

when going in boost mode and pedaling hard from 0 to 20 km it will continue to push me past that for atleast 2-4 meters. I have had this happen a few times when taking a corner and I didn want more speed just for the motor to push me an insane amount in the corner with 1100 watts I think this only happens in boost mode? I haven't really noticed it in other modes. Bafang 750w new silent version

I only cared about the overrun when shifting but iJust installed a shift sensor and no more worries about motor pushing 1100 watts while changing gears.

could get shimano linkglide for the people that are worried about driveterain durability. Had a few times where I shifted under 1200 watts and chain survived. Also able to shift completely fine with ~380w motor power, and about 80-150w rider input and no loud noises. Good enough for mountainbiking and I dont have to worry about a chain snapping

 

[tbeaugelin]

Hello, I agree the bafang m560 definitely has overrun too but sometimes it's unnoticeable and sometimes it's very noticable.

when going in boost mode and pedaling hard from 0 to 20 km it will continue to push me past that for atleast 2-4 meters. I have had this happen a few times when taking a corner and I didn want more speed just for the motor to push me an insane amount in the corner with 1100 watts I think this only happens in boost mode? I haven't really noticed it in other modes. Bafang 750w new silent version

I only cared about the overrun when shifting but iJust installed a shift sensor and no more worries about motor pushing 1100 watts while changing gears.

could get shimano linkglide for the people that are worried about driveterain durability. Had a few times where I shifted under 1200 watts and chain survived. Also able to shift completely fine with ~380w motor power, and about 80-150w rider input and no loud noises. Good enough for mountainbiking and I dont have to worry about a chain snapping

Yes, exactly like that! Sometimes there is almost no overrun, and sometimes a slight push on the pedal and away we go! Happens to me on all modes, not only boost. Tried calibrating the sensor multiples times, to no success...

 

[Dado]

I have noticed longer over run with low battery on some firmwares, which is indeed strange.

tbeaugelin I can try to record a video of my chainring.
Try to flash other v1.5 and test.

Here I am really happy it does not have overrun. I am used to ride E mode, still pedalling, just releasing throttle, power is going down really quick and I am shifting straight. This way you can shift very quickly and no hard times and sounds from derailleur. I was so thrilled about this last season when I discovered this technique. Also in a video on YT (that one was old noisy M560).

 

[Dado]

Yes, exactly like that! Sometimes there is almost no overrun, and sometimes a slight push on the pedal and away we go! Happens to me on all modes, not only boost. Tried calibrating the sensor multiples times, to no success...

Thats no calibration of torque sensor. But calibration of rotor position.

 

[Yasind76]

Here I am really happy it does not have overrun. I am used to ride E mode, still pedalling, just releasing throttle, power is going down really quick and I am shifting straight. This way you can shift very quickly and no hard times and sounds from derailleur. I was so thrilled about this last season when I discovered this technique. Also in a video on YT (that one was old noisy M560).

Is there a technique to shift like that but with just pedaling and no thumb throttle? Because overrun could ruin the drive terrain

 

[tbeaugelin]

Thats no calibration of torque sensor. But calibration of rotor position.

Yeah, there was a button on old Besst (not Besst Pro), but I think it never did anything.

Do you have a 1.5 I could flash? Knowing I run a 48V15A battery, so maybe someone has the appropriate .bin for a 15A battery?

 

[Dado]

Is there a technique to shift like that but with just pedaling and no thumb throttle? Because overrun could ruin the drive terrain

Just to stop pedalling completely, wait a fraction of second, shift and start pedalling. On powers to 500W I am shifting also under the load.

 

[Dado]

Yeah, there was a button on old Besst (not Besst Pro), but I think it never did anything.

Do you have a 1.5 I could flash? Knowing I run a 48V15A battery, so maybe someone has the appropriate .bin for a 15A battery?

Is also in Besst Pro. And bet it does something. It will store into controller registers the position of magnets to windings to have smooth starts of motor. On first sight it does nothing as your controller was calibrated from factory. But when you replace controller you must run it. Some controllers comes without calibration run, so then you getting Hall error straight.

15A battery is not good for M560 (but battery and BMS will give you more). Even 500W firmware is taking 19A.