Bafang m510

[Andy5]

Yes, I saw Mirko's E-Bikeschmiede on the 'Bafang M500, M510, M560, M600, and M820 Users Group' on Facebook had also done so with his CEF69. He reported that his max is 25A and it's set to 85%. Are you running the controller at full power? Can your M510 handle it well?

I have M560/500 W controller-max. 19A, Mirkos has M560/750W-max. 25A. I have set Max. power to 100% on the highest level. It is snowy here, so I can not test it on the ride now. I have already nylon gear as spare part.

 

[ncs]

One day motor stop support at the middle of trail, disassembly it at home and found signs of water inside. Magnesium chassis also damaged and corroded. When I take torque sensor it was wet with white signs of water on metal and on sensor sheet.
My first attempt to recover it was failed because I clean it, take away any white corrosion by Scotch-Brite, and lube it with thin oil for protect from water (it was failed decision) - when I assembly for test - sensor not work.
Second attempt was success - I take away metal cylinder with sensor sheet from main axle, de-grease it, and wash in water with hand-clean soap. After I dry it and heat with hair dryer - not overheat, just to remove water. Assembly for test and it work! Take 7 rides after repair, sensor work without problems, acceleration feelings like it was before.
Pictures from my second motor that has not water inside and sensor work, but I saw white lines too, don't touch it, will wait when it failed =)
Main warning - don't use abrasives and don't try to remove perforated metal sheet from metal cylinder if you won't buy new sensor. Everything is at your risk.

Spoiler: More pictures

 

[8Grunf]

Hello everyone, I have a question: beyond the known differences in the controller, can anyone tell me if the M510 FC.2 motor is mechanically quieter than the previous FC.1 version? Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide an answer.

 

[Dado]

It is the same in noise. Did not spot a difference in gears.

But is true they are slightly (and in silence) changing gear teeth time to time (M620 and M560).

 

[MrFixit]

Hi, a very odd thing has developed with my M510 v2 motor which is (was) restricted to 25kph. It has recently started to give support well beyond 25kph! I have not done anything to the motor since I last did some maintenance on it sometime last year. Has anyone else experienced this?

Also, today after 2 short rides error 30 came on the display. I know error 30 indicates a communication issue between motor and display; error 30 came on after I had stopped riding the bike and had left the display switched on for a while. Initially I thought I may have dislodged the cable from the motor where it goes into the display causing the error message, as the bike was fine after I removed and reattached the cables to the display, but after the 2nd ride the error messaged returned and the cables were firmly pushed into the display, so I am beginning to suspect a controller issue. Has anyone got any ideas?

 

[TeoElFeo]

Can somebody tell me what is the latest hardware revision of the 510? Is it 2.0 or is there a 2.1? Also does the latest 510 firmware have the same low voltage cutoff of 3.2v as the newer m560?

 

[CiDi]

Can somebody tell me what is the latest hvisioardware ren of the 510? Is it 2.0 or is there a 2.1? Also does the latest 510 firmware have the same low voltage cutoff of 3.2v as the newer m560?

The latest version hardware of the M510 is 3.0 with controller 3.0 not compatible with V2.0/2.1

 

[TeoElFeo]

Is that the RS model? Or just regular 510? What is the difference between 3.0 and 2.1/2.0? I am looking for a replacement motor so trying to figure out what to get...

 

[Dado]

If you order now, you will get FC3.0. One thing here happened - bafang disabled throttle! Fun is over. But there is one 48V custom firmware with throttle.

I have also FC4.0 firmware. That is M510RS I guess.

RS has new speedsensor, ABS like. Do u have frame for this?

 

[TeoElFeo]

If you order now, you will get FC3.0. One thing here happened - bafang disabled throttle! Fun is over. But there is one 48V custom firmware with throttle.

I have also FC4.0 firmware. That is M510RS I guess.

RS has new speedsensor, ABS like. Do u have frame for this?

No, my frame (dengfu e22) is not meant for that new speed sensor. What is the difference between 3.0 and 2.0 other than throttle(which I don't need)? Any reason to prefer one over the other? Also what's the LVC on the 3.0 suitable firmwares?

 

[Dado]

Dont know exactly, have not been riding FC3.0. Has better torque sensor.
Go for fc3.0

LVC same. BBR2 is solving it.

 

[Caio]

Dont know exactly, have not been riding FC3.0. Has better torque sensor.
Go for fc3.0

LVC same. BBR2 is solving it.

Is it worth upgrading from FC2.0 to FC3.0, or even FC4.0 (RS)? Is there a significant difference between them?
If i understand correctly, FC3.0 and FC4.0 have a different torque sensor when compared to FC2.0; FC2.1 ; Then, based on what you said, changing FC controller only will not work correctly or at all, correct?

Thanks
Caio

 

[CiDi]

Is it worth upgrading from FC2.0 to FC3.0, or even FC4.0 (RS)? Is there a significant difference between them?
If i understand correctly, FC3.0 and FC4.0 have a different torque sensor when compared to FC2.0; FC2.1 ; Then, based on what you said, changing FC controller only will not work correctly or at all, correct?

Thanks
Caio

FC3.0 has an updated torque sensor, but is compatible with V2.0/2.1 controllers.
I have an FC3.0 motor that I fitted with a V2 controller to and it works perfectly.

 

[TeoElFeo]

FC3.0 has an updated torque sensor, but is compatible with V2.0/2.1 controllers.
I have an FC3.0 motor that I fitted with a V2 controller to and it works perfectly.

Do you buy any chance know the marking of the torque sensor? I am considering of just getting the newer controller and 3.0 torque sensor

 

[Caio]

FC3.0 has an updated torque sensor, but is compatible with V2.0/2.1 controllers.
I have an FC3.0 motor that I fitted with a V2 controller to and it works perfectly.

Did you downgrade to for V3 to V2.0/2.1? I mean, i assume that your FC3.0 motor came with V3, right?
If so, why would you downgrade the controller?

 

[Dado]

Not sure

Do you buy any chance know the marking of the torque sensor? I am considering of just getting the newer controller and 3.0 torque sensor

With marking of Torque sensor is kind of weired.
You need to believe to the sticker - behind the "/" is Torque sensor label.
Or to open it and check on a torque sensor itself.

In the begining (M500, M600) there was torque sensors with CAN bus and you could have seen actual torque sensor on a display. Then they changed torque sensors to analogue output and you cant read serial or HW type of torque sensor.

And now with M560RS Besst is again reading Torque sensor numbers. But funny, I am not measuring CAN bus pins on a torque sensor connector. Controller could fake the response.

 

[CiDi]

Hai effettuato il downgrade dalla versione V3 alla V2.0/2.1? Voglio dire, presumo che il tuo motore FC3.0 fosse fornito con la versione V3, giusto?
In tal caso, perché mai si dovrebbe effettuare il downgrade del controller?

For two reasons: the supplied controller was defective, it made the display stay on all the time, the firmware available for the V3 was not suitable for my use.

 

[CiDi]

Sai per caso qual è la marcatura del sensore di coppia? Sto pensando di prendere il controller più recente e il sensore di coppia 3.0.

 

[Dado]

And RS versions are with new sensor with more PAS holes and looks to me also with an optical sensor (was hall before).

This is M560RS:

72 impulses per revolution.
And now thinking as it is again reading TRQ sensor, if bafang did not move to something else like SPI interface. Need to measure it.

 

[TQFreak]

And RS versions are with new sensor with more PAS holes and looks to me also with an optical sensor (was hall before).

This is M560RS:
View attachment 179656
72 impulses per revolution.
And now thinking as it is again reading TRQ sensor, if bafang did not move to something else like SPI interface. Need to measure it.

The 560RS torque sensor output was measured with VESC Tool and VESC for Bafang M560 motor controller. It starts slightly below 0.75V at no torque and probably goes to about 1.5V or higher at maximum torque.

The controller processor reads the torque sensor voltage to determine the PAS torque value. If you see any PAS torque sensor related information on the Bafang display then it was sent to the Bafang display from the controller processor through the CANbus transceiver.

Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 reverse engineering and firmware making

That's interesting, the https://www.ex-force.de (the aftermarket controllers for Bafang motors from the former Innotrace developers) website is down. And I just got an anonymous message on this forum asking me to figure out if they use VESC firmware lol. Do you think the VESC guys took them...

endless-sphere.com

 

[Dado]

Looks like it really reads from sensor. Has also longer timing. But yes, could be still faking by controller.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I've now two motors with the same problem. The motor fires up but has no drive. They display all info, on connection with BESST you can calibrate it, you can see the torque sensor operating voltages working correctly ( ish as you cannot really load the pedals fully statically ) you can change levels, almost everything works normally excepting the motor drive.

The symtoms are identical to the speed sensor not working but speed is displayed correctly. Any clues here guys to what parts I should be ordering or hints such as reloading the firmwares ?

 

[Dado]

It reacts on pedalling, rotor is rotating, right? And no power on a chainring.

One way bearing in the gear before the big final one. Had same, but with M560.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Dado no its not the one way bearing, the motor simply doesn't power up from the torque sensor input and yet the motor seems OK as you can calibrate it.

Is there anyway the speed sensor can output the correct speed and yet the motor won't respond ?

It reacts on pedalling, rotor is rotating, right? And no power on a chainring.

 

[patdam]

Dado non, ce n’est pas le palier unidirectionnel, le moteur ne s’alimente tout simplement pas avec l’entrée du capteur de couple et pourtant le moteur semble correct car on peut le calibrer.

Y a-t-il une façon pour que le capteur de vitesse donne la bonne vitesse et que le moteur ne réponde pas ?

generally it's those who test on one bike stand

when you perform sensor calibration, the motor turn ? on walk mode it's turn ? What you do with these 2 motors before fails ?

 

[Dado]

Got it now. Torque sensor gone? Either PAS or torque signal? You can hold rear brake and step on pedal, if you see significant raise of voltage from TS.

If you under the speed limit motor assists. Dont know about some special cases why shouldnt due to speed sensor.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Got it now. Torque sensor gone? Either PAS or torque signal? You can hold rear brake and step on pedal, if you see significant raise of voltage from TS.

If you under the speed limit motor assists. Dont know about some special cases why shouldnt due to speed sensor.

Yes Torque sensor reads correct with weight on the peddle rising correctly as you press on the peddle. Seems a bit high at about 850 at standstill but then that could have been the case since new.

Walk mode works correctly.

Yes tested by riding the bike.

PAS ? the display changes levels OK, is there a motor circuit specific, I would have thought the assist was computer driven by altering the torque or amps ? As the motors switch on and no errors show up then I'm assuming the circuits must read OK.

I'm suspect of the speed sensor as I have had an ERR21 show twice on the motor that is presently in the frame. One I can understand having put a tree branch though the wheel damaging the rim, spokes and breaking yet another derailleur ( typically 2 -3 a year from branches or jockey wheel seizures from running in slurry, I have a fix for this now with fitting RS type bearings ). Sadly is the one part I don't have on the shelf here and just awaiting delivery to test before taking the motor apart.

I wonder if that small interconnecting PCB has become water damaged and the ribbon cable connectors have become damaged ? We had a not unsimilar problem with the very first batch of motors with the startup voltage not being correct ( resistance of the connector ).

What you do with these 2 motors before fails

They are typically abused Brit conditions motors ( mud and water filled paths throughout the winter ) and typically they fail when the crank side seal fails from running in what is effectively slurry. My riding partners had similar troubles with Bosch motors but there has now been an additional seal and kit available from @Bearingman for the Bosch motors which seems to have solved this. I looked extensively how to modify the M510 in a similar way but there is not enough thickness in the cases to enable this.

 

[Dado]

Hmmm, 850mV when no force? Could be high and controller is taking it as initial faulty value? But of course it should give you TS error message then - you know how it is with Bafang.

Sorry about that PAS, I meant rotation sensor in torque sensor. Also called PAS sometimes.

You can try that connector PCB board to swap. Thast not expensive. But I am rather sceptical if this will be it. When this board is watered and oxidated then usually power on/off miracles and Error 30.

Is still good to have some spare parts at home. I would maybe try to replace torque sensor first. If wont help then controller. Dont worry about that Error 21, thats not important. It is on just when motor wont get for few seconds an impuls from speed sensor.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I have a speed sensor arriving in a day or two, just need to eliminate that before splitting the motor and begin to inspect the internals, eliminate the obvious first as the BESST numbers should mean a working motor.

 

[Dado]

What is saying Besst diagnostics? Just joking as that diagnostic is lame.