2019 Harness short prevention

[TrailwattsUK]

Due to the number of harness shorts and faults developing from the kink in the wiring harness on 2019 models Trail Watts and Berkshire Cycles have developed a clip on cable guide to prevent electrical shorting and ensure life of the cable.

Available soon from Berkshire Cycles.

 

[Maastricht]

Dear @Specialized Rider Care, is this an official supported modification due to the issues being reported in the thread below where you also added a few posts?

Internal Power Cable Failure, Levo 2019 - EMTB Forums

Do we all need to start to make this modification to make sure we don't end up into cable issues?

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Thanks @Maastricht. It's a nice idea but as mentioned previously we haven't seen any shorts or pinches/restrictions yet on returned cables (anywhere globally) due to the bend radius of the cable - and we have checked carefully. Our investigations are continuing and we'll report back then.

Notice that on the top picture above the flexible rubber outer sleeve is pushed back away from the individual cores at the motor plug. This sleeve serves two purposes, a) to give some outer protection to the cores as they turn a corner and b) when pushed all the way over the rubber boot at the motor plug it prevents water ingress (which could be a cause of some intermittent short-circuit scenarios).

At a glance, it seems that this solution helps with a) whilst improving bend radius, however b) is clearly compromised on the design above hence we can't recommend it at this point. We'll speak with the retailer, clearly there is good intention behind this mod and we'll partner with them to understand more clearly before commenting further.

 

[Maastricht]

Thanks @Maastricht. It's a nice idea but as mentioned previously we haven't seen any shorts or pinches/restrictions yet on returned cables (anywhere globally) due to the bend radius of the cable - and we have checked carefully. Our investigations are continuing and we'll report back then.

Notice that on the top picture above the flexible rubber outer sleeve is pushed back away from the individual cores at the motor plug. This sleeve serves two purposes, a) to give some outer protection to the cores as they turn a corner and b) when pushed all the way over the rubber boot at the motor plug it prevents water ingress (which could be a cause of some intermittent short-circuit scenarios).

At a glance, it seems that this solution helps with a) whilst improving bend radius, however b) is clearly compromised on the design above hence we can't recommend it at this point. We'll speak with the retailer, clearly there is good intention behind this mod and we'll partner with them to understand more clearly before commenting further.

Thanks for your comments again!

 

[TrailwattsUK]

The picture shown is an example of prototype design and Trail Watts is willing to discuss directly with specialized to remedy cable issues. Glad specialized are here to get the ball rolling.

 

[ccrdave]

i still say according to electrical engineering standards there is a minimum bend radius for all cables, the rule of thumb is 8x the diameter of the cable

 

[Maastricht]

The picture shown is an example of prototype design and Trail Watts is willing to discuss directly with specialized to remedy cable issues. Glad specialized are here to get the ball rolling.

Maybe a stupid question but why do we need a fix as Specialized says, based on the known facts until today, that there isn't any problem?

 

[R120]

There has been quite a few reports of the cable failing on the Forum

 

[MattyB]

i still say according to electrical engineering standards there is a minimum bend radius for all cables, the rule of thumb is 8x the diameter of the cable

You are on the money there...

How to Determine Bending Radius | Multi/Cable Corporation

TBH I find the response above from Specialized is a little strange. It is clear that there is a real problem despite their protestations, a problem big enough for Berkshire cycles (who are probably seeing more of these than anyone else in the UK right now, and possibly the world) to try and come up with a solution for their customers, presumably because Specialized have not done so themselves. Critiquing that attempt to help customers in public seems a little odd - surely it would have been better to just contact Berkshire Cycles quietly offline for more information and to give feedback .if they thought it were a bad idea?

 

[TrailwattsUK]

Trail Watts contact from customers aswell as Retailers from USA and Canada requesting the cable clip solution seems overwhelming loads on a cable designed for minimal radius compliance. Rosenberg information regarding the 6 wire cable is public information.
It’s the little things ?

 

[Paul Carruthers]

Thanks @Maastricht. It's a nice idea but as mentioned previously we haven't seen any shorts or pinches/restrictions yet on returned cables (anywhere globally) due to the bend radius of the cable - and we have checked carefully. Our investigations are continuing and we'll report back then.

Notice that on the top picture above the flexible rubber outer sleeve is pushed back away from the individual cores at the motor plug. This sleeve serves two purposes, a) to give some outer protection to the cores as they turn a corner and b) when pushed all the way over the rubber boot at the motor plug it prevents water ingress (which could be a cause of some intermittent short-circuit scenarios).

At a glance, it seems that this solution helps with a) whilst improving bend radius, however b) is clearly compromised on the design above hence we can't recommend it at this point. We'll speak with the retailer, clearly there is good intention behind this mod and we'll partner with them to understand more clearly before commenting further.

So what is the root cause of the failure, why is the cable being replaced?
It’s taking a very long time to answer this.

 

[TrailwattsUK]

Brand new bike with side cover removed.

 

[khorn]

Brand new bike with side cover removed.

View attachment 11354

View attachment 11355

I must say that looks ridiculous from an engineering perspective and if used as intended, also taking the fill up of crud into account, it will not take a rocket scientist to know that this is just waiting for trouble.

Karsten

 

[Paul Carruthers]

Why can’t Specialized admit this is an error in design and replace it with a cable fit for purpose. Is it cost? The cost to reputation will in the long run be much higher.
I await the root cause failure analysis as the Specialized rep on the forum states no faults in the returned cables have been found.

I’ve had a replacement cable installed and now a couple of weeks later I await a new motor. I’m starting to review the consumer goods act as the item (bike) appears unfit for purpose.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Why can’t Specialized admit this is an error in design and replace it with a cable fit for purpose. Is it cost?

Hi Paul - Maybe its something else that is causing it? Mine was replaced, it failed after I washed the bike... I wonder if its something to do with water ingress.

Thanks @Maastricht. It's a nice idea but as mentioned previously we haven't seen any shorts or pinches/restrictions yet on returned cables (anywhere globally) due to the bend radius of the cable - and we have checked carefully. Our investigations are continuing and we'll report back then.

Specialized are saying that there are no issues from shorting / pinching on cables.

I await the root cause failure analysis as the Specialized rep on the forum states no faults in the returned cables have been found.

If there are no faults found in the returned cables then that may indicate that cable strain / pinching is not the root cause.

 

[TrailwattsUK]

There is a problem due to the amount of power/ display errors being reported online and the cut outs. If you short the cable then the battery bms will lock down the battery but the motor can suffer pcb damage hence replacement. Matters need to be addressed as sales suffer if aftercare is slow.

 

[ccrdave]

it could be interesting to know exactly how spesh are testing the returned cables, as far as I know if you pinch a cable it creates resistance, the tighter the pinch the higher the resistance. Thats how resistor components work isnt it?
I think that the cables in the 2018 models were causing some problems due to the way it was clamped to hold it in place. The clamp was pinching the cable, I had mine replaced because of this

 

[Paul Carruthers]

Well gents whatever it is it’s obviously not a one off issue and needs resolving. Replacing like for like of an inadequate component will result in repeated failure.

 

[Paul Carruthers]

Hi Paul - Maybe its something else that is causing it? Mine was replaced, it failed after I washed the bike... I wonder if its something to do with water ingress.


Specialized are saying that there are no issues from shorting / pinching on cables.


If there are no faults found in the returned cables then that may indicate that cable strain / pinching is not the root cause.

I just want some honest feedback and an engineered fix, while the warranty service is good I’d rather not have to make use of it.

 

[MrWid]

Has anyone thats had the issue a while tried using electrical contact cleaner?

I had the fault lights flash up before a ride around 2 weeks ago, my bike hadn't been washed in-between rides so i doubt it was water ingress. I pulled the motor lead off, reconnected and it was fine for the ride. When i got home i then cleaned up the connections with contact cleaner and its been fine since. I've done around 5 rides without any error lights showing

contact cleaner

 

[DONUT]

I use the contact cleaner (WD40 one) as it seemed obvious to me that moisture one way or the other was getting into/onto the contacts between the battery and the connector. I have not had any errors on the TCU only the occasional refusal to turn on - annoyingly just at the point when you all kitted up and ready to go. My method to get it to turn on is:

Repeatedly try the TCU.
Swear, rotate palms to the sky, remove helmet, gloves, camelback........
Take bike back into my workshop.
Remove battery.
Thoroughly dry battery off with compressed air gun and microfibre cloth.
Refit battery.
Spray contact cleaner on plug and battery terminals, reconnect.
Bike turns on.

My gut feel (for my issue anyway) is that its not cables or anything particularly sinister, its condensation and or a bit of water ingress following me washing the bike. My workshop is not heated (who's is?) and I am hopeful that once the weather warms up this won't be such an issue. Mine is a 19 and I have only had it since Christmas so every time I have used it (every weekend without fail) - its gotten royally caked in mud so not giving it a thorough hose down is not an option.

 

[mintakax]

I had an issue yesterday with my 2019 Levo that may be related. After removing a lot of dry mud from my bike, I gave it a gentle sponge bath while on the bike stand. Afterwards, I opened the charge port and blew in air using a compressor and then closed the port. I turned the bike on and pressed the walk button. I heard the motor surge briefly with no wheel turning then go quiet, I pushed the button again ...same thing. The TCU display was normal and responded correctly to handle bar remote assist level settings, but the motor would not activate with either the walk button or turning the pedals. I opened and closed the port several times with no response. A few minutes later the situation resolved itself. I took the bike for a short ride and everything seems to be functioning fine. I know this doesn't sound exactly like the issues described above but I'm wondering if its related ?

 

[deanphoto]

Remove battery.
Thoroughly dry battery off with compressed air gun and microfibre cloth.


My gut feel (for my issue anyway) is that its not cables or anything particularly sinister, its condensation and or a bit of water ingress following me washing the bike.

I wash my bike after every ride and have never found the battery to be wet. Is water being forced through the cable inserts near the headtube?

 

[DONUT]

I wash my bike after every ride and have never found the battery to be wet. Is water being forced through the cable inserts near the headtube?

could be getting in there I suppose. It tends to be a problem when I go back the following weekend to use it which is why I think condensation. If water is getting in there though it could be making the TCU wet too. I will give this consideration this weekend.

 

[Colin228]

If you wash your bike after a ride then its always worth a quick ride after to remove any water that may accumulate.

 

[DONUT]

Well I couldn't get it to turn on tonight again so I pulled the TCU out to have a look. No sign of moisture in there so I don't think thats the problem. Really could not get it to boot up so ended removing crank and motor casing and giving everything a blow out and a dose of contact spray. It worked and it started but I really wish I could pinpoint what it is that is causing this. I have contacted my LBS now because, as my wife has pointed out to me, I wouldn't put up with it if it was my car - she's right as always

 

[Trumpet]

Maybe a stupid question but why do we need a fix as Specialized says, based on the known facts until today, that there isn't any problem?

My riding partner is on his 2nd 2019 Levo after 4 weeks due to this.

 

[Paul Carruthers]

When I get mine back, still waiting for a motor replacement for a week now If I have another fault I’m going back to shop and reject it.

 

[TrailwattsUK]

I have had a very good response from specialized and hopefully some more information next week.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Well the despite the kink, crack and "gunk" on the power lead, a swap changed nothing. So I don't think it's just the kink in the lead to blame on the faults. I don't really see the point in this unless it's proven to fix/prevent something.