Avinox Reveals its Motor Gearbox

[Zimmerframe]

Nice !

If they get the whole setup working optimally then we erase the derailleur, the free hub and potentially the rear brake with the motor taking over that function combined with an electric brake switch.

 

[Imanol]

Hi Rob, what can you tell us about the approximate weight? Lighter than Gobao's?

Avinox MG Concept: no derailleur, no cassette, infinite gearing

Avinox has shown its new MG Concept at Eurobike.

MG stands for Motor Gearbox, but the interesting bit is that this isn’t just a normal gearbox motor. From my interview, Avinox described it as using stepless virtual gearing.

That means no traditional rear drivetrain:

• No derailleur
• No cassette
• No fixed mechanical gear steps
• Gear changes in around 0.1 sec
• Can be run as 4 gears, 5 gears, 12 gears, or full auto
• AI-supported auto shifting
• Similar power target to M2S
• Chain or belt compatible
• Potential motor lock anti-theft
• Regen braking being explored

The best way to think about it:

A normal bike has fixed gears, like steps.

This is more like a ramp. The system has effectively infinite ratios underneath, then the software lets you decide how you want that gearing to feel.

Avinox had concept bikes from Canyon, Commencal, Mondraker and Forbidden using the MG system.

Still only a concept, likely not production until next year, but this could be one of the biggest drivetrain changes in eMTB for years.

Hi Rob, what can you tell us about the approximate weight? Lighter than Gobao's?

 

[DylanJM]

You gotta think this might have an effect on M2S bikes sales? When many bikes aren't set to be delivered until towards end of this year I think many in the market for a new bike might hold on a bit to see what 2027 brings.

 

[Plummet]

Ill be watching this with a keen eye.

Question. Can ya pedal it turned off at all? Can gears be changed or when the battery is flat?

 

[irie]

You gotta think this might have an effect on M2S bikes sales? When many bikes aren't set to be delivered until towards end of this year I think many in the market for a new bike might hold on a bit to see what 2027 brings.

Might explain why there are so few deliveries scheduled for the remainder of this year.

 

[Lfhao]

You gotta think this might have an effect on M2S bikes sales? When many bikes aren't set to be delivered until towards end of this year I think many in the market for a new bike might hold on a bit to see what 2027 brings.

In the long term maybe but in short term M2s bikes are nearly sold out anyway.

Personally I don’t want to own a gen 1 product until it’s tested by market. I’ll def enjoy the M2s now and wait 2028 for a new bike.

 

[slickrock]

It is not CVT. Avinox uses the idea Grin started working long time ago with their Magic Drive unit

It is basically emulation of the gearbox with electrical motor (tat's why the guy in the the Rob video mentioned about it requires a lot of power, it indeed requires a lot of power. And for the same reason he mentioned they can lock the motor, that is because of it relies completely on the electricity. And for the same reason he mentioned they can use regenerative braking).

Here is the explanation of how it works and what Avinox is basically doing here:

Just because they may provide a lockout feature is a big stretch to assume that this Avinox is using this "Series" MGU solution, unless you are privy to the MG's internals. I would be very dismayed if they went this way as pedal cadence is essential to control power delivery when on an EMTB. Having pedal kickback like a hub brake would be profoundly awful.

 

[Fangs2k]

Brotha I have good news for you. It’s in the video on the first post of this thread lol. 2027 and he did ride it

In fairness he also said multiple times it was a prototype, he wasn’t even allowed to film it.

As he also said, I’d expect it in an Amflow for 2027 earliest.

By the time development is finalised, other manufacturers signed up and production scaled, 2028 is my guess.

People just need to calm the F down around every Avinox announcement, they won’t be the only game in town (GOBAO for one) and it would be great to discuss something without the usual ‘pick a side buddy or else’ type rhetoric…

 

[Brawwp]

 

[Str1fe]

I was wondering how the anti Avinox crew would spin this into a bad thing lol.

At least he has arguments…

 

[TQFreak]

Nice !

If they get the whole setup working optimally then we erase the derailleur, the free hub and potentially the rear brake with the motor taking over that function combined with an electric brake switch.

This concept has a disentangle though and it is the same disadwantage as the single speed mid-drives have like Sur-Ron or hub motors - they are efficient at one speed, at other speeds they dump more energy into heat comparing with mechanical geared electrical motors.

They might mitigate this issue though implementing maybe 2-3 simple mechanical gears inside the motor that would switch depending on the speed and cadence.

On another hand if you do not care about the battery range but prefer simplicity, reliability and no maintenance then this concept is quite appealing.

 

[slickrock]

View attachment 187358

Ugh, different motor mounts. Can't have everything. Still about the size of Gen 5 Bosch.

 

[DylanJM]

In the long term maybe but in short term M2s bikes are nearly sold out anyway.

Personally I don’t want to own a gen 1 product until it’s tested by market. I’ll def enjoy the M2s now and wait 2028 for a new bike.

Sold out because the the inital stocks were quite low. Avinox had to spread out their stock amongst a massive amount of brands so there wasn't a whole lot of bikes available when it first launched. I think most brands will still need a lot of sales to make decent return and that is going to be harder with ECVT bikes on the horizon.

On the plus side M2S bikes will be cheap as chips come late 2027!

 

[DylanJM]

Might explain why there are so few deliveries scheduled for the remainder of this year.

I think that is just because the demand outpaced Avinox's production capabilities. There should be a lot more stock from Aug/Sept onwards.

 

[slickrock]

Ill be watching this with a keen eye.

Question. Can ya pedal it turned off at all? Can gears be changed or when the battery is flat?

Most likely the following degraded modes, based on ECVT theory and assuming the MG is a true ECVT:

1. No power delivery to motor (at all, like a broken harness) it will drop into fixed gear ratio. Whether it's in high gear, mid, or low is TBD based on design.
2. Dead battery: you pedaling could propel the bike forward and motor would act as a generator to power the shifting motor so you can change gears.
3. Drained battery: your pedaling could both recharge the battery and drive the transmission power to the wheels. It would be a slog though. Even betrer, you just coast downhill and recharge the battery.

 

[Trek-Rail-eBike]

Hi Rob, what can you tell us about the approximate weight? Lighter than Gobao's?

Hi Rob, what can you tell us about the approximate weight? Lighter than Gobao's?

The YouTube reports on this motor put it at 3.5kg to 3.7kg

 

[Ou812]

The Mondraker bike looks the best out of the 4 so far and it was the only one with the belt drive. I’ve had a really good deal on a Mith frame fall in my lap but now I’m second guessing if I should wait or not.

 

[Pyr0]

Looks like I might want another bike in 2027/28

 

[Mario Antony]

2027 = Ebike Prices pass EV car prices

Hold your panties, we're only 6 months away!

PS: How to reduce M2S sales (to actual production capacity), using Media and Novelty.

 

[DylanJM]

2027 = Ebike Prices pass EV car prices

Hold your panties, we're only 6 months away!

PS: How to reduce M2S sales (to actual production capacity), using Media and Novelty.

I don't see why these ECVT bikes will be any more expensive than current bikes. Avinox has actually allowed manufactures yo drop a lot of prices with the M" and M2S motors. Plus with the ECVT you won't need expensive derailleurs and cassettes.

 

[Astro66]

Yep ...... 2028 is me getting an Enduro Avinox MGU. Already planted the seed in the seed in the wife's head ........ She seemed surprised I was going to wait so long ......

I must say. I think Gobao must have forced Avinox's hand in announcing this. This will impact M2S sales, as peeps wait for the MGU to drop.

 

[Mario Antony]

I don't see why these ECVT bikes will be any more expensive than current bikes. Avinox has actually allowed manufactures yo drop a lot of prices with the M" and M2S motors. Plus with the ECVT you won't need expensive derailleurs and cassettes.

I accept any bet.
Just remember, the cheapest EV presently is 16.9K€!

 

[Astro66]

I don't see why these ECVT bikes will be any more expensive than current bikes. Avinox has actually allowed manufactures yo drop a lot of prices with the M" and M2S motors. Plus with the ECVT you won't need expensive derailleurs and cassettes.

100%. Sram XO AXS Transmission on my Amflow is about AUD$2K of hardware.

 

[DylanJM]

I accept any bet.
Just remember, the cheapest EV presently is 16.9K€!

I'm not saying there won't be case of an emtb passing that mark but it won't be the norm. There will still be bikes with this motor in the €5-8k mark.

 

[DylanJM]

The Mondraker bike looks the best out of the 4 so far and it was the only one with the belt drive. I’ve had a really good deal on a Mith frame fall in my lap but now I’m second guessing if I should wait or not.

Seat tube is super short however.

 

[Mario Antony]

I'm not saying there won't be case of an emtb passing that mark but it won't be the norm. There will still be bikes with this motor in the €5-8k mark.

Well... until we actually see one, I supose we've got ourselfs a lot of time to debate

Now, I start to believe in Shimano MGU rumors, and why they're so secret about!

 

[DylanJM]

Ill be watching this with a keen eye.

Question. Can ya pedal it turned off at all? Can gears be changed or when the battery is flat?

@Rob Rides EMTB could you check this one with Avinox and see what they say? What sort of redundancy will there be for dead battery situations on trail?

 

[Diby2000]

Ugh, different motor mounts. Can't have everything. Still about the size of Gen 5 Bosch.

The mounts themselves are different, but they look to be in the same locations?

This could shortcut any development required for the frame itself once an M1, M2 or M2S is already proven.
And open the door for future retrofits!

 

[DylanJM]

The mounts themselves are different, but they look to be in the same locations?

This could shortcut any development required for the frame itself once an M1, M2 or M2S is already proven.
And open the door for future retrofits!

The eye to eye on the MG looks longer to me.

 

[west]

Unsure what it would cost to produce this type of motor compared to something like the M2S. If they were the same, then in theory could brands reduce pricing since you're not paying for a cassette & derailleur?