Avinox Reveals its Motor Gearbox

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Avinox MG Concept: no derailleur, no cassette, infinite gearing

Avinox has shown its new MG Concept at Eurobike.

MG stands for Motor Gearbox, but the interesting bit is that this isn’t just a normal gearbox motor. From my interview, Avinox described it as using stepless virtual gearing.

That means no traditional rear drivetrain:

• No derailleur
• No cassette
• No fixed mechanical gear steps
• Gear changes in around 0.1 sec
• Can be run as 4 gears, 5 gears, 12 gears, or full auto
• AI-supported auto shifting
• Similar power target to M2S
• Chain or belt compatible
• Potential motor lock anti-theft
• Regen braking being explored

The best way to think about it:

A normal bike has fixed gears, like steps.

This is more like a ramp. The system has effectively infinite ratios underneath, then the software lets you decide how you want that gearing to feel.

Avinox had concept bikes from Canyon, Commencal, Mondraker and Forbidden using the MG system.

Still only a concept, likely not production until next year, but this could be one of the biggest drivetrain changes in eMTB for years.

 

[Trek-Rail-eBike]

I'm in on this !

 

[RustyMTB]

On the face of it, sounds like CVT, looking forward to whichever Youtuber gets hold of one & takes it apart.

 

[Brawwp]

I’m coming out guys. You’ve been trying to out me for a while on the forum. I’ll finally admit, I’m an Avinox fanboy.

This is so sick!

 

[Pilot]

Early bird at Eurobike! Great interview, ty

 

[russ_e]

I get that we shouldn't moan about innovation but eMTBS are expensive most of us can only afford one. It's certainly put me off buying a M2S equipped bike even if there was one in the shop to purchase.

I would be gutted if I had just spent 10k on a Forbidden or Mondraker M2S.....

 

[Astro66]

I’m coming out guys. You’ve been trying to out me for a while on the forum. I’ll finally admit, I’m an Avinox fanboy.

This is so sick!

I'm a fully sick mate fanboi .................... Bosch, Shimano, SRAM .......... Thx for coming ........... The door is that way ------------------->

 

[Str1fe]

No dedicated Eurobike thread to gather all the news ?

 

[dadeadduck]

Holy crap that looks awesome.

 

[MrSimmo]

Take my money Avinox!

Slap on a Gates Carbon Drive, stick it in an Orbea Wild LT frame and I'm sold.

 

[FJ836]

Take my money Avinox!

Slap on a Gates Carbon Drive, stick it in an Orbea Wild LT frame and I'm sold.

+1 .... would be perfect

 

[Trek-Rail-eBike]

I get that we shouldn't moan about innovation but eMTBS are expensive most of us can only afford one. It's certainly put me off buying a M2S equipped bike even if there was one in the shop to purchase.

I would be gutted if I had just spent 10k on a Forbidden or Mondraker M2S.....

That's just the world and how progress works.

Take a look at EV's. Example : a Porsche Taycan Turbo G1 cost £150k in 2021, the Gen2 comes out 3/4 years later with much better tech, +40% range, lighter weight, more power and faster charging.

Prior to buying a product you should do some research and figure out what might be coming in the future, and assess that on what you want from a bike. Then decide if you want to commit to buying or wait for the new features.

I really liked the Atherton S.170E, but it was clear to me they are saving the 'A' eMTB range for MG / MGU, so i'm waiting for that before I buy.

 

[RoJo]

Well done DJI for this innovation: 2 years after their first motor.
Shimano, Bosch, Sram deserve the consequences of their lack of innovation over the last 10+ years.

Going to be so awesome to pedal out of the corner and be in the right "ratio" with no chain skipping.

 

[slickrock]

This is announcement is quite simply the most import thing to happen to the EMTB space in years. Even more important than DJI's introduction into the EMTB motor space. And it has everything to do with the specific transmission tech they seem to have gone with: ECVT. And in one fell swoop energized the the flagging MGU space that has seem to go nowhere for the last 5 years.

I've been expounding on the benefits of ECVT over traditional gearbox designs stuffed with carriages of spur gears for each gear step for over a year now on this thread. I was practically begging on the thread for some large player to take on this design because ECVT is essentially the best way to rescue MGUs as they are currently and conventionally thought about: as being heavy, ungainly, lossy, clunky, kludgy, loud, and overly complex. Just look at the motor in Robs hands: if you weren't looking carefully, you'd mistake it for M2 motor! The only way it could be this compact is to ditch the gearbox altogether. Only ECVT could do this (perhaps pedal-by-wire as well like with the Niche motor).

Going over all the potential players (Bosch, Shimano, SRAM/Brose/Specialized), I saw DJI as the only one with enough balls put their cards on the table, not only only in the MGU space, but critically to go with ECVT. I would be singing a completely different tune if they warmed-over a Pinion or Interdrive design. MGU patents from SRAM and Shimano look to renditions of these traditional gearbox designs. And Bosch? I just never got whey they sat on their asses not getting to the MGU space - after all they, have no derailleur transmission legacy to protect like SRAM and Shimano. If anything, all these big players should be happy they got a warning shot from Avinox before the MGU wars start. They've got at best on more year to get their assess in gear or the game is over before it started.

 

[Fangs2k]

I get that we shouldn't moan about innovation but eMTBS are expensive most of us can only afford one. It's certainly put me off buying a M2S equipped bike even if there was one in the shop to purchase.

I would be gutted if I had just spent 10k on a Forbidden or Mondraker M2S.....

It is ultimately still a concept, and whilst I believe it will get to production and be picked up by brands, that’s still 2028 onwards so still a couple of years at least to enjoy whatever it is people have purchased.

Early adopters always suffer though, it’s why I always wait for v2 or v3 of something, learnt that lesson decades ago.

For some, buying and owning the latest greatest thing to get the dopamine hit is the hobby, which is fair enough if pockets are matching.

 

[DylanJM]

The integration of it on that Canyon is fantastic. I feel sorry for any other brands that had already started developing stuff just to compete with the M2S and now potentially having to scrap that and start over on a CVT. Nobody will want anything else once this hits the mainstream market. SRAM and Shimano won't be happy either.

 

[DylanJM]

It is ultimately still a concept, and whilst I believe it will get to production and be picked up by brands, that’s still 2028 onwards so still a couple of years at least to enjoy whatever it is people have purchased.

Early adopters always suffer though, it’s why I always wait for v2 or v3 of something, learnt that lesson decades ago.

For some, buying and owning the latest greatest thing to get the dopamine hit is the hobby, which is fair enough if pockets are matching.

I think this is beyond concept in the development timeline. I think this will be on the market next year.

 

[Rando_12345]

"Eurobike"? More like euro-motors-are-effed, doesn't quite have the same ring though...

 

[Fangs2k]

I think this is beyond concept in the development timeline. I think this will be on the market next year.

I was going to mention the GOBAO that @RustyMTB just linked to, they’ve got a bike with the motor for folks to ride at Eurobike (Rob has a video later he said in the GOBAO motor thread).

I’m sure Avinox have had it running in test bikes as well, but it’s clear that things will move quickly now, but expect it will still be higher end brands first, same as the M1 rollout.

 

[RustyMTB]

I deleted that post on the basis that I was about the fourth person to link it.

 

[otbmaster]

It is not like auto gearboxes haven't been on the market for a llng long time , but usually on dirtbikes and atvs . The key thing is making them smaller , lighter with less drag and reliable enough. We will find out after the first true customers have bought and tried them for a longer period of time . Until that happens one wait and see.

 

[TQFreak]

It is not CVT. Avinox uses the idea Grin started working long time ago with their Magic Drive unit

It is basically emulation of the gearbox with electrical motor (tat's why the guy in the the Rob video mentioned about it requires a lot of power, it indeed requires a lot of power. And for the same reason he mentioned they can lock the motor, that is because of it relies completely on the electricity. And for the same reason he mentioned they can use regenerative braking).

Here is the explanation of how it works and what Avinox is basically doing here:

 

[Brawwp]

It is ultimately still a concept, and whilst I believe it will get to production and be picked up by brands, that’s still 2028 onwards so still a couple of years at least to enjoy whatever it is people have purchased.

I was going to mention the GOBAO that @RustyMTB just linked to, they’ve got a bike with the motor for folks to ride at Eurobike (Rob has a video later he said in the GOBAO motor thread).

I’m sure Avinox have had it running in test bikes as well, but it’s clear that things will move quickly now, but expect it will still be higher end brands first, same as the M1 rollout.

Brotha I have good news for you. It’s in the video on the first post of this thread lol. 2027 and he did ride it

 

[Astro66]

This is the problem for legacy EMTB motor manufacturers. There focus is existing technology, as they have invested heavily in that technology, so giving Joe Customer what they want, is not a priority. Priorities are extracting the most profit from the technology they have invested so much in. So they spend their marketing trying to convince Joe Customer, the old tech and limits is what you want.

Along come Avinox, who have no existing tech, and thus just what to give EMTB customers what they are asking for. It's so f**king refreshing.

 

[Mario Antony]

Avinox MG Concept: Lightweight, Full-Power Combined eBike Motor & Gearbox Project

All-new Avinox MG Concept project teases a lightweight, full-power combined ebike motor and gearbox powertrain + drivetrain solution in one!

bikerumor.com

I never for once asked for internal gears (in general! Not talking Avinox in particular) mainly for several reasons:
- Cost: Higher than Linkglide for a long shot!
- Performance: Equal if not inferiror to traditional drivetrain, meaning need to ease up to make a change, noise, drag while costing, efficiency much lower than tradicional drivetrian
- Weight: If sum everything, IG will always be heavier
- Maintenance: For those that perform their maintenance, this will put some stones on the way to achieve what was achivable with traditional drivetrain. I won't touch compatability and parts availability in the future, but just look back, and you'll be able to apply a NEW drivetrain to any old bike!
[UDH: is nice, to have interchangeable and 100% compatible hanger.]


A bit of a side note, and since it's described to be a CVT, and probably we're talking about auto shifting, but, then I recall:
CVT - had a car with CVT. And hated it! Had to go!
Even auto transmission, such has ZF8/DSG/7G&9G Tronic, I like it (a lot), but when I return to manual shifting and a clutch, I find myself happier than never!
Also, when I tried Honda (motorcycles) DCT, I did enjoyed, but wouldn't buy it, prefering the manual.

So internal drivetrain, because some asked and to have more robustness, with all associated problems?
Once more, and for those that never understood: I see ebike like a "augmented bike", not a downgraded motorbike!

 

[Brawwp]

I never for once asked for internal gears (in general! Not talking Avinox in particular) mainly for several reasons:
- Cost: Higher than Linkglide for a long shot!
- Performance: Equal if not inferiror to traditional drivetrain, meaning need to ease up to make a change, noise, drag while costing, efficiency much lower than tradicional drivetrian
- Weight: If sum everything, IG will always be heavier
- Maintenance: For those that perform their maintenance, this will put some stones on the way to achieve what was achivable with traditional drivetrain. I won't touch compatability and parts availability in the future, but just look back, and you'll be able to apply a NEW drivetrain to any old bike!
[UDH: is nice, to have interchangeable and 100% compatible hanger.]


A bit of a side note, and since it's described to be a CVT, and probably we're talking about auto shifting, but, then I recall:
CVT - had a car with CVT. And hated it! Had to go!
Even auto transmission, such has ZF8/DSG/7G&9G Tronic, I like it (a lot), but when I return to manual shifting and a clutch, I find myself happier than never!
Also, when I tried Honda (motorcycles) DCT, I did enjoyed, but wouldn't buy it, prefering the manual.

So internal drivetrain, because some asked and to have more robustness, with all associated problems?
Once more, and for those that never understood: I see ebike like a "augmented bike", not a downgraded motorbike!

I was wondering how the anti Avinox crew would spin this into a bad thing lol.

 

[Mario Antony]

Fotos from Bikerumor:

Avinox MG Concept: Lightweight, Full-Power Combined eBike Motor & Gearbox Project

All-new Avinox MG Concept project teases a lightweight, full-power combined ebike motor and gearbox powertrain + drivetrain solution in one!

bikerumor.com

 

[Lfhao]

Wow, wow and wow.

Avinox good job again! I just got a M2s bike but would like to upgrade in 2yrs!

 

[Mario Antony]

I was wondering how the anti Avinox crew would spin this into a bad thing lol.

You see two opposing poles, but reality is that the TL ebike they presented exited me more than this.

I would be more interested in having news from Shimano, or TQ.

Internal gear advocates will now be able to fetch bread, while drinking a Starbucks Decaf Frappuccino, on their automated, efforteless ebike. Good on you!

 

[RustyMTB]

I was wondering how the anti Avinox crew would spin this into a bad thing lol.

Yeah, 'I once owned a 1987 Volvo 340 & it was shit, therefore I don't want this.'