Avinox M2

[Wojtek]

You said: "I get you guys are all angry about “unnecessary power,”

So I asked: "Which posts in this thread or elsewhere are "angry about 'unnecessary power'"?

Where is the "anger"?

That's what I mean.

i guess mostly anger not about the increased power but apparent lack of focus on increasing the battery wh.. which is still just an assumption. I hope to be positively surprised with battery news in next weeks!

Since 2019 i have been using TQ TRP 120s motor with 120nm. And 1060Wh battery on m1 emtbs.
So that much power is nothing new for me.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I had another go with the new M2S last night (Derestricted) and tried boost mode on the "Himalamflow Experience", I don't really see what all the fuss is about .

 

[irie]

i guess mostly anger not about the increased power but apparent lack of focus on increasing the battery wh.. which is still just an assumption. I hope to be positively surprised with battery news in next weeks!

Since 2019 i have been using TQ TRP 120s motor with 120nm. And 1060Wh battery on m1 emtbs.
So that much power is nothing new for me.

Getting angry with assumptions / speculation about something that as yet does not exist? Sheesh.

 

[TheKaiser]

i guess mostly anger not about the increased power but apparent lack of focus on increasing the battery wh.. which is still just an assumption. I hope to be positively surprised with battery news in next weeks!

Since 2019 i have been using TQ TRP 120s motor with 120nm. And 1060Wh battery on m1 emtbs.
So that much power is nothing new for me.

That is a very unusual bike and motor, so it is cool to hear from someone who has several years of real-world experience on one. When the TQ 50nm motor came out, I'd thought, "wouldn't it be cool if they did a full power motor with that tech" and only later did I find out they'd been doing the 120nm motor for several years, but for whatever reason it didn't catch on more widely. Out of curiosity, have you ever tracked how much vertical gain you're able to get out of that 1060Wh battery with the TQ 120? I have wondered how efficient they are given their very different inner workings vs. other motors.

 

[Brawwp]

Getting angry with assumptions / speculation about something that as yet does not exist? Sheesh.

Irie, my man, you’re real hung up on me saying the word angry. I’ll admit, poor word choice. Maybe unhappy, or not stoked would have been better used and more of what I meant. I just meant many people on this forum aren’t happy to see the increase in power from Avinox (not angry I suppose). People saying it’s unnecessary, will likely cause legal issues, not what they want, etc etc. It really doesn’t matter. My point was that maybe we’re overlooking the benefits of more power which could be more efficiency at the lower power levels in which most of us will probably use. This may not be true though. Was just a thought. So my bad on saying people are angry, let’s move on.

 

[Endorium]

I'm just really surprised by no new batteries. Athertons said it has equivalent range to Bosch 750wh. No matter how more efficient it is, a 600wh battery won't do that. So maybe they are using a custom battery. Amflow really missing a trick with range extenders as well

 

[Wojtek]

Irie, my man, you’re real hung up on me saying the word angry. I’ll admit, poor word choice. Maybe unhappy, or not stoked would have been better used and more of what I meant. I just meant many people on this forum aren’t happy to see the increase in power from Avinox (not angry I suppose). People saying it’s unnecessary, will likely cause legal issues, not what they want, etc etc. It really doesn’t matter. My point was that maybe we’re overlooking the benefits of more power which could be more efficiency at the lower power levels in which most of us will probably use. This may not be true though. Was just a thought. So my bad on saying people are angry, let’s move on.

Whats wrong with feeling angry about something? It is just an emotion that comes and goes. No big deal
Society is repressing anger, which leads to violence and abuse or people pleasing.
If someone wasnt allowed to feel and express anger they would be naturally hung up on it.
But thats not psychological forum so i will stop right here!

 

[Rando_12345]

I'm just really surprised by no new batteries. Athertons said it has equivalent range to Bosch 750wh. No matter how more efficient it is, a 600wh battery won't do that. So maybe they are using a custom battery. Amflow really missing a trick with range extenders as well

Well Crestline have effectively confirmed an in-between battery, most likely a 720Wh weighing the same as the 600wh.

A local shop was very cagey with info a few months ago but told me "amflow will get some the tech early, and if you do huge rides, you will want to get the amflow".

So my guess is that Avinox will make the 7x0Wh available as an upgrade to some brands, some of which will prefer to stick to the 800Wh, and maybe the Amflows will get the rumoured the 9x0Wh batteries ahead of others.

If that is the case, between the unnecessarily long embargo, really similar amflow pr and px, and tech availability, it seems like the marketers have way too much say compared to the engineers...

 

[nickf]

it seems like the marketers have way too much say compared to the engineers...

In the mountain biking world? Surely not!

 

[Plyphon]

I can guarantee Bosch won't. They know it's pointless. Just number chasing. Give me reliability and options over power anyway.

This comment will age like milk.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Whats wrong with feeling angry about something? It is just an emotion that comes and goes. No big deal
Society is repressing anger, which leads to violence and abuse or people pleasing.
If someone wasnt allowed to feel and express anger they would be naturally hung up on it.
But thats not psychological forum so i will stop right here!

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

-Yoda

 

[Ndanger]

Whats wrong with feeling angry about something? It is just an emotion that comes and goes. No big deal
Society is repressing anger, which leads to violence and abuse or people pleasing.
If someone wasnt allowed to feel and express anger they would be naturally hung up on it.
But thats not psychological forum so i will stop right here!

Alongside of positive comments about anger, there needs to be mention of the harm. It frequently leads to immediate, outward destruction, broken relationships, physical violence, or impulsive decisions that carry high long-term costs. It is the primary driver of "friction" in social systems.

 

[nickf]

I can see this thread veering rapidly off topic!

 

[Lucm]

When coming the new crussis model with dij avinox m2 which date?

 

[Endorium]

This comment will age like milk.

Doubt it. Reliability and options will always win for me. Unless you know of an extender for.dji?

 

[Powerslider]

I’m not one that needs a lot of range from my bike, but for those who do, it seems to me a poor choice to pick a motor platform that doesn’t have a range extender option. Says a lot that even those who want a lot of range are seduced by big power.

 

[Rando_12345]

Nah, range extenders until now typically add 25% extra range, might as well just go down one assistance level and save the weight.

Easily swappable battery is the only way to have no range anxiety, just requires planning.

 

[Onetime]

I jumped on the holiday sale in the US. When I saw it at $8,599 for the Pro Carbon I added to cart immediately. Sure enough after Jan 1 it went back up to $10,199. The word is Amflow sold in excess of 50,000+ bikes since it was released. Yes, companies like Specialized sell way more but rarely a number like that on one model only. After 250 miles of desert riding I am very happy with the bike. The Magura brakes were a challenge until I decided just to do a full bleed and now they are perfect.

I don’t think Avinox needs to come out with an M2 motor right now. They are at the top of the performance ladder compared to everyone else. I’m sure they have a new motor well into development but let folks like Bosch respond before releasing anything new.

You don’t want them to come out with a new one, because you have the old one and you don’t want to be on the old one. But everyone else wants the new one, and it IS coming on several bikes in just a few weeks, so deal with it man! I can’t wait for mine to arrive! It will be

 

[emtbeast]

We/I wrote a lot about possible new battery packs for the Avinox system, cca 700wh and a 936Wh pack. I mentioned in my posts that these are the most likely packs based on the newest available cells on the market. I also mentioned(briefly) that due to the fact the newest cells came on the market sometime in nov/dec 2025 it is possible the new packs won't be ready till spring 2026 due to lack of time to go trough all the steps to certify a new battery pack. There are also some new regulations stepping into play this and next year so that may have an effect also.

I asked AI to throw together a summary of steps to bring a new ebike battery pack on the market. The summary example is based on the EU market, different markets also have different regulations, so additional or different testing could be needed for other world markets.

Let's say DJI/Amflow is done with steps 1 & 2, then there a still eight steps to go...

Based on the summary given timeline the best case scenario would be the end of 2026, worst case spring 2027. I think someone already mentioned next season for new Avinox packs.

AI Summary:

1. Concept, design & engineering
Start with:
• Battery chemistry (typically lithium-ion)
• Voltage, capacity (Wh), form factor
• Battery Management System (BMS) for safety (overcharge, temp, short circuit)
At this stage you also design for:
• Thermal stability (fire risk is a major concern)
• Durability (charge cycles, vibration)
• Integration with the e-bike system

2. Prototype & internal testing
Before any certification:
• Build prototypes
• Run internal tests:
• Charge/discharge cycles
• Overheating / thermal runaway
• Mechanical stress (drops, vibration)
• Water/dust protection (IP ratings)
This reduces the risk of failing formal certification later.

3. Safety standards testing (mandatory)
You must pass internationally recognized battery tests:
Core battery standards:
• UN 38.3 → transport safety (required for shipping lithium batteries) (Alibaba)
• IEC 62133 → cell-level safety standard (Alibaba)
These ensure the battery won’t explode, leak, or catch fire under normal use and transport.

4. E-bike system compliance (EU-specific)
If the battery is used in an e-bike sold in Europe:
• Must comply with EN 15194 (e-bike standard)
• Covers electrical safety, EMC, mechanical safety (ebike battery manufacturer)
• Ensures compatibility with:
• Max 48V systems
• 250W motor limits
• 25 km/h cutoff
Important: Even if you only sell the battery, it must be compliant within the full system.

5. CE marking (legal market entry)
To sell in the EU, CE marking is mandatory:
• Confirms compliance with:
• Safety
• Health
• Environmental protection laws
• Without CE → cannot legally sell or import (Gdestl)
This involves:
• Risk assessment
• Technical documentation
• Declaration of conformity

6. EU Battery Regulation compliance (new & stricter)
Under the EU Battery Regulation (2023/1542):
You must address the entire lifecycle:
• Sustainable sourcing
• Carbon footprint reporting
• Recycling targets
• Labeling requirements (ZIV – Die Fahrradindustrie)
Upcoming requirements:
• QR code + labeling (from ~2026)
• Digital “battery passport” (from ~2027) (Xbenbike)

7. Certification testing by third parties
You typically send samples to labs (e.g. TÜV, SGS):
They perform:
• Electrical safety tests
• Mechanical abuse tests
• Environmental tests (heat, moisture, shock) (ebike battery manufacturer)
If passed → you receive certificates needed for CE marking and market trust.

8. Manufacturing & quality control setup
Before scaling production:
• Implement quality systems (e.g. ISO 9001)
• Ensure traceability:
• Serial numbers
• Batch tracking
• Lock component specs (certification applies to exact design)

9. Transport & logistics compliance
Lithium batteries are classified as dangerous goods:
• Must follow strict shipping rules
• Special packaging + labeling required
• Often limited to ground/sea transport (Xbenbike)

10. Market launch & post-market obligations
After launch:
• Provide manuals and safety instructions
• Warranty & recall capability
• Ongoing compliance monitoring
Regulators can:
• Pull products
• Issue fines
• Require recalls (especially for fire risk)

Quick summary (simple flow)
• Design & engineer battery
• Prototype + internal testing
• Pass UN 38.3 + IEC 62133
• Meet EN 15194 (e-bike system)
• Obtain CE marking
• Comply with EU Battery Regulation
• Third-party certification
• Set up manufacturing & QA
• Arrange compliant shipping
• Launch + monitor product

Reality check
The hardest parts are usually:
• Passing safety tests (thermal runaway failures are common)
• Navigating regulations (they’re getting stricter every year)
• Documentation and traceability


Typical end-to-end timeline: 9 to 18 months

1. Concept & engineering — 1–3 months
• Define specs (voltage, capacity, form factor)
• Select cells + design BMS
• Early safety design (thermal, enclosure)
Faster if using off-the-shelf components
Slower if developing new chemistry or custom electronics

2. Prototyping — 2–4 months
• Build first working units
• Iterate design (usually multiple revisions)
Includes:
• Mechanical housing tweaks
• BMS tuning
• Early safety fixes
Most teams underestimate this phase

3. Internal testing & validation — 2–3 months
• Charge/discharge cycles
• Thermal stress testing
• Drop / vibration / water resistance
Goal: avoid failing formal certification later

4. Certification testing — 3–6 months
This is often the biggest bottleneck
Includes:
• UN 38.3 (transport)
• IEC 62133 (battery safety)
• EN 15194 (e-bike system compliance)
• CE documentation
If you fail tests, add +2–6 months for redesign and retesting

5. Manufacturing setup — 1–3 months (overlaps with certification)
• Finalize suppliers
• Tooling for enclosure
• Quality control processes

6. EU Battery Regulation compliance — parallel (adds ~1–2 months)
• Labeling
• Documentation
• Recycling / traceability setup
This is increasingly important after the new regulation rollout.

7. Logistics & launch prep — 1–2 months
• Packaging for dangerous goods shipping
• Distribution setup
• Manuals, warranty system

Fast-track vs slow-track

Fastest possible: ~6–9 months
Only if:
• Using proven battery cells
• Reusing existing BMS design
• Experienced team
• No certification failures

More realistic(startups): 12–18 months
Because of:
• Iterations after failed tests
• Supplier delays
• Documentation gaps
• Certification queues (labs can be booked months out)

Where most delays happen
1. Certification failures
• Thermal runaway issues
• BMS not cutting off properly
• Mechanical damage during testing

2. Documentation (CE compliance)
• Missing technical file
• Poor risk analysis

3. Supply chain
• Battery cells (often long lead times)
• Custom enclosures

 

[winters3]

Hi i most likly ridden to day the new DJI engine on the Thömus Oberrider:

https://www.emtbforums.com/threads/thömus-oberrider-avinox-high-pivot.45308/page-3#post-670592

I was riding with headphones , but the trail was rough enough that any rattling would definitely have shown up.

To be honest, in your specific case the bike was dead silent. I’m pretty sensitive to that kind of noise, and I think you’d also feel something like that through the cranks. I even had to lift the bike over a fallen tree and dropped it quite hard onto the rear end—still no noise, no rattling, nothing.

 

[IceGamer]

This comment will age like milk.

Just coming back from the Cycling world and there is more news…

So Megamo had to replace every sign for almost every bike on display (they had quite a lot on display and several could be used for test-drives as well). Now every bike was supposedly equipped with the Avinox M1 and its power numbers.
I spoke to two different employees and the one working in the Megamo booth was tight lipped regarding upcoming engines. He wasn’t happy when I asked about the M2s and said that he currently doesn’t know anything about any future engine-updates only that the bikes will be available before summer and that they will be equipped with the newest Avinox engine available…
I caught the second guy in between and far of the Megamo booth and while he was also tight lipped and didn’t talk about any numbers or weight he basically confirmed the ‘leaked’ picture from Friday. He told me that April 9th isn’t too far away without mentioning anything that could possibly happen on that day…

Other news:
A high ranking official from a German brand that is not known for MTBs or anything in that regard but that sounds to me like a Victory ‘told’ me that the Bosch Gen 5 will receive a new update this year that it will match the Avinox (probably the M1) regarding power output. Their new bikes will be launched somewhere in August/September of this year and will come with said update. They’re also happy with Bosch and don’t see any reason to switch to Avinox or any other brand.

Last but not least:
Eurobike is pretty much dead. Everyone I talked to told me that this is the bike fair almost all major brands and OEMs attended with their management. However, that decision was made fairly late by most OEMs and it was therefore fairly crowed everywhere. Some bigger brands or OEMs apparently couldn’t get an outside booth anymore that was required for test-drives. Nonetheless, everyone seemed happy with the event though…

 

[FrogSkunk]

Just coming back from the Cycling world and there is more news…

So Megamo had to replace every sign for almost every bike on display (they had quite a lot on display and several could be used for test-drives as well). Now every bike was supposedly equipped with the Avinox M1 and its power numbers.
I spoke to two different employees and the one working in the Megamo booth was tight lipped regarding upcoming engines. He wasn’t happy when I asked about the M2s and said that he currently doesn’t know anything about any future engine-updates only that the bikes will be available before summer and that they will be equipped with the newest Avinox engine available…
I caught the second guy in between and far of the Megamo booth and while he was also tight lipped and didn’t talk about any numbers or weight he basically confirmed the ‘leaked’ picture from Friday. He told me that April 9th isn’t too far away without mentioning anything that could possibly happen on that day…

Other news:
A high ranking official from a German brand that is not known for MTBs or anything in that regard but that sounds to me like a Victory ‘told’ me that the Bosch Gen 5 will receive a new update this year that it will match the Avinox (probably the M1) regarding power output. Their new bikes will be launched somewhere in August/September of this year and will come with said update. They’re also happy with Bosch and don’t see any reason to switch to Avinox or any other brand.

Last but not least:
Eurobike is pretty much dead. Everyone I talked to told me that this is the bike fair almost all major brands and OEMs attended with their management. However, that decision was made fairly late by most OEMs and it was therefore fairly crowed everywhere. Some bigger brands or OEMs apparently couldn’t get an outside booth anymore that was required for test-drives. Nonetheless, everyone seemed happy with the event though…

Be incredibly funny if Megamo was trolling everyone

If nothing else, its a fantastic way to get ppl talking more about your brand…

 

[Powerslider]

Nah, range extenders until now typically add 25% extra range, might as well just go down one assistance level and save the weight.

Easily swappable battery is the only way to have no range anxiety, just requires planning.

But an extender and lowering assist level aren't mutually exclusive. You can do both... if you have an extender option.

 

[Zimmerframe]

But an extender and lowering assist level aren't mutually exclusive. You can do both... if you have an extender option.

I'm pretty sure I saw exactly the same thing quoted in the Karma Sutra.

 

[BT180]

Hey guys, new to the forums. Have a Commencal Meta Power SX Avinox on pre-order, which arrives April 9th after the embargo. Been keeping an eye on this thread because have been told by Commencal that the bike will be specced with the new M2. The figures quoted above are pretty wild!

My local trails involve a LOT of steep climbs, so have been eagerly looking forward to the new Avinox system. Wondering though if there may be different M2 variants that could be on offer? Considering the recent pics in this thread show an M2S I'm wondering if there might be multiple versions , each with different levels of power, eg M1, M2, M2S

All my own speculation of course

 

[Wah]

Just coming back from the Cycling world and there is more news…

So Megamo had to replace every sign for almost every bike on display (they had quite a lot on display and several could be used for test-drives as well). Now every bike was supposedly equipped with the Avinox M1 and its power numbers.
I spoke to two different employees and the one working in the Megamo booth was tight lipped regarding upcoming engines. He wasn’t happy when I asked about the M2s and said that he currently doesn’t know anything about any future engine-updates only that the bikes will be available before summer and that they will be equipped with the newest Avinox engine available…
I caught the second guy in between and far of the Megamo booth and while he was also tight lipped and didn’t talk about any numbers or weight he basically confirmed the ‘leaked’ picture from Friday. He told me that April 9th isn’t too far away without mentioning anything that could possibly happen on that day…

Other news:
A high ranking official from a German brand that is not known for MTBs or anything in that regard but that sounds to me like a Victory ‘told’ me that the Bosch Gen 5 will receive a new update this year that it will match the Avinox (probably the M1) regarding power output. Their new bikes will be launched somewhere in August/September of this year and will come with said update. They’re also happy with Bosch and don’t see any reason to switch to Avinox or any other brand.

Last but not least:
Eurobike is pretty much dead. Everyone I talked to told me that this is the bike fair almost all major brands and OEMs attended with their management. However, that decision was made fairly late by most OEMs and it was therefore fairly crowed everywhere. Some bigger brands or OEMs apparently couldn’t get an outside booth anymore that was required for test-drives. Nonetheless, everyone seemed happy with the event though…

Regarding the Bosch…. Did he mean all Gen 5 motors will get that update or just new ones?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Hey guys, new to the forums. Have a Commencal Meta Power SX Avinox on pre-order, which arrives April 9th after the embargo. Been keeping an eye on this thread because have been told by Commencal that the bike will be specced with the new M2. The figures quoted above are pretty wild!

My local trails involve a LOT of steep climbs, so have been eagerly looking forward to the new Avinox system. Wondering though if there may be different M2 variants that could be on offer? Considering the recent pics in this thread show an M2S I'm wondering if there might be multiple versions , each with different levels of power, eg M1, M2, M2S

All my own speculation of course

Not 100% sure what we can say at this point with the "drips" ...

You're 66% right.

ahhh .. statistics.

 

[IceGamer]

Regarding the Bosch…. Did he mean all Gen 5 motors will get that update or just new ones?

He was very specific that he was not talking about a new motor (gen 6).

However, he specificaly didn't deny that a new update is coming this year and he also didn't deny that this update will be available before August. ;-)

edit:
It wouldn't make any sense to me to 'limit' the update to newly delivered Gen5 motors... If so I would simply call it Gen 6. I would therefore assume that all gen5 motors get the update. What’s weird though is the fact that Gen5 originally debuted with 85nm… So update 1 increases power to 100nm and update 2 might increase the same engine to 120nm. If so why didn’t they release Gen5 with ~100nm or more? Either the numbers are achievable and reliable or these numbers will have a toll on the material and future Gen5 engines break down more easily. We’re talking an almost 50% increase in power with no mechanical changes being made…

 

[xtraman122]

He was very specific that he was not talking about a new motor (gen 6).

However, he specificaly didn't deny that a new update is coming this year and he also didn't deny that this update will be available before August. ;-)

edit:
It wouldn't make any sense to me to 'limit' the update to newly delivered Gen5 motors... If so I would simply call it Gen 6. I would therefore assume that all gen5 motors get the update. What’s weird though is the fact that Gen5 originally debuted with 85nm… So update 1 increases power to 100nm and update 2 might increase the same engine to 120nm. If so why didn’t they release Gen5 with ~100nm or more? Either the numbers are achievable and reliable or these numbers will have a toll on the material and future Gen5 engines break down more easily. We’re talking an almost 50% increase in power with no mechanical changes being made…

Probably knew they were detuning it from its capabilities when they released it and wanted to “keep some in the tank” for situations like this. Also probably wanted to see reliability statistics from a large corpus of data before feeling comfortable turning it up. If at one increase they notice any measurable uptick in issues like overheating/stripped gears/etc they know they’re probably at their limit. But if they can keep getting away with pushing it a little further each time to keep up with the market it’s not a bad move. Frustrating as consumers to not just have had access to the best it could do right away, but smart on their part to be able to keep up with what the competition is doing with a simple software update.

 

[BT180]

Not 100% sure what we can say at this point with the "drips" ...

You're 66% right.

ahhh .. statistics.

Coincidentally just came across this on the eRIDERSeMTB YouTube channel