Weird Reversed Stem Geo / Chat

Still no comment on climbing performance. I get the theory for descending and steeps. But e-biking for me is also about technical climbing. This seems like it would ruin technical climbing with weight too far back unless you have a bespoke bike with unfeasibly long chainstays.

I guess its a moot argument for me as im not going to buy a whole new bike to try a stem out and I see little point installing this on an existing bike as it would turn the cickpit nto and absolute dogs breakfast and not yeild positive results.
 
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Still no comment on climbing performance. I get the theory for descending and steeps. But e-biking for me is also about technical climbing. This seems like it would ruin technical climbing with weight too far back unless you have a bespoke bike with unfeasibly long chainstays.

I guess its a moot argument for me as im not going to buy a whole new bike to try a stem out and I see little point installing this on an existing bike as it would turn the cickpit nto and absolute dogs breakfast and not yeild positive results.
As someone that has run high rise bars/stems, but hasn't yet used this, I imagine it'd be much the same. Your climbing isn't impacted at all by your cockpit in my experience. Your center of gravity is determined by your seat position and your torso lean. You're not hanging off the bars. A higher stem just means your arms are more bent.
 
Really? Your brake lines are so tight they can’t move up a few centimeters? How does your front suspension work? Same with droppers. You need slack to turn the bars. There’s plenty of slack if your bikes assembled correctly.

My front brake line length was perfect when my fork was at 160 with no extra slack so as to prevent it from snagging on anything and a clean look. Then I extended the fork to 170mm, and it's totally fine, but at its limit. Yah raising my lever another 7" would definitely be an issue.
 
As someone that has run high rise bars/stems, but hasn't yet used this, I imagine it'd be much the same. Your climbing isn't impacted at all by your cockpit in my experience. Your center of gravity is determined by your seat position and your torso lean. You're not hanging off the bars. A higher stem just means your arms are more bent.
Oh it absolutely is impacted by handle bar height as real high a back bars limit how far forward you can lean. Also at the real technical end of steep climbing you are usually out of the saddle and leaning as forward as you can so as not to loop the bike out. What Wyn Masters stairs climbing. Slap this set up on and he's looping out so much sooner because he wouldnt be able to get forward enough....... unless of course the chainstay length is super long.

 
Oh it absolutely is impacted by handle bar height as real high a back bars limit how far forward you can lean. Also at the real technical end of steep climbing you are usually out of the saddle and leaning as forward as you can so as not to loop the bike out. What Wyn Masters stairs climbing. Slap this set up on and he's looping out so much sooner because he wouldnt be able to get forward enough....... unless of course the chainstay length is super long.

Ok sure. At the absolute extremes of climbing you are correct. 99.9% of all trails, it doesn't matter.
 
IMG_6568.webp

Intend 25mm stem, love the front end control, full blown test mule w 474 chainstay and 502 reach in the making.
 
Ok sure. At the absolute extremes of climbing you are correct. 99.9% of all trails, it doesn't matter.
99.9% for you maybe. At least 30% of my climbing is at the raged edge of what's possible. I ride around chasing rediculous climbs and descents. Here's a couple of lines around town.

 
I imagine of your brake/ dropper/ shift lines were cut to not have excess slack in them, that you might be looking at having to extend all of these with the bars now being so much higher?
Generally it’s not an issue as there is enough slack. Sometimes if a shifter, dropper or rear brake line initially appears too short, it can be routed behind the RR stem for a shorter path. If the front brake is too short though, there is no work around, you will need a longer line.
 
99.9% for you maybe. At least 30% of my climbing is at the raged edge of what's possible. I ride around chasing rediculous climbs and descents. Here's a couple of lines around town.

These are all on a standard 2022 Trek Slash 8 29 M/L with a 75.6 degree seattube angle and 437mm chainstay run with the even taller Gen 1 150mm RR stem and typically about 30mm spacers below it bringing it even taller for me at 5’8”.

Climb 1
Climb 2
Climb 3
Climb 4
Climb 5 with some stairs
Climb 6
Climb 7
Climb 8 with a better view of the stairs
Climb 9 with a hop up a log

Still no comment on climbing performance. I get the theory for descending and steeps. But e-biking for me is also about technical climbing. This seems like it would ruin technical climbing with weight too far back unless you have a bespoke bike with unfeasibly long chainstays.

I guess its a moot argument for me as im not going to buy a whole new bike to try a stem out and I see little point installing this on an existing bike as it would turn the cickpit nto and absolute dogs breakfast and not yeild positive results.
A new bespoke bike with unfeasibly long chainstays is not necessary for the RR stem to work as even though no current mtb is designed for the RR stem, the RR stem is designed for current mtbs. I have hundreds of happy customers world wide using the RR stem on their existing bike yielding countless PRs and greatly improved riding comfort and control. Many of them are on emtbs too. Don’t knock it till you try it. 😉
 
These are all on a standard 2022 Trek Slash 8 29 M/L with a 75.6 degree seattube angle and 437mm chainstay run with the even taller Gen 1 150mm RR stem and typically about 30mm spacers below it bringing it even taller for me at 5’8”.

Climb 1
Climb 2
Climb 3
Climb 4
Climb 5 with some stairs
Climb 6
Climb 7
Climb 8 with a better view of the stairs
Climb 9 with a hop up a log


A new bespoke bike with unfeasibly long chainstays is not necessary for the RR stem to work as even though no current mtb is designed for the RR stem, the RR stem is designed for current mtbs. I have hundreds of happy customers world wide using the RR stem on their existing bike yielding countless PRs and greatly improved riding comfort and control. Many of them are on emtbs too. Don’t knock it till you try it. 😉
#5 Snow Summit and #6 Santa’s Village, nice! I saw you in the lift line at Summit season before the last. You commented on my bike because I had the 10mm On/Off stem and high rise bars on my 40. Not as high as yours, but the same idea. 🤘🏻😎
 
Appears like there’s two things going on with RR setup. Increased bar height; and reversed stem length. So I’m thinking dramatically raising a standard stem/bars would provide some of the RR experience.
Agreed. As someone that has run pretty high stem + bar combos, I know I prefer it greatly to more traditional setups, so I'm very excited to try this.
 
#5 Snow Summit and #6 Santa’s Village, nice! I saw you in the lift line at Summit season before the last. You commented on my bike because I had the 10mm On/Off stem and high rise bars on my 40. Not as high as yours, but the same idea. 🤘🏻😎
I remember that! I thought that may have been the same bike when you posted it here. 😅 Certainly going down a similar albeit less extreme route. 😊
 
Appears like there’s two things going on with RR setup. Increased bar height; and reversed stem length. So I’m thinking dramatically raising a standard stem/bars would provide some of the RR experience.
To me the tuned Reversed offset is the key feature, and the Raised height works in to further compliment it. This is why I call them Raised Reversed stems, these are the Raised version of my Reversed offset geometry philosophy. 😊
 
These are all on a standard 2022 Trek Slash 8 29 M/L with a 75.6 degree seattube angle and 437mm chainstay run with the even taller Gen 1 150mm RR stem and typically about 30mm spacers below it bringing it even taller for me at 5’8”.

Climb 1
Climb 2
Climb 3
Climb 4
Climb 5 with some stairs
Climb 6
Climb 7
Climb 8 with a better view of the stairs
Climb 9 with a hop up a log


A new bespoke bike with unfeasibly long chainstays is not necessary for the RR stem to work as even though no current mtb is designed for the RR stem, the RR stem is designed for current mtbs. I have hundreds of happy customers world wide using the RR stem on their existing bike yielding countless PRs and greatly improved riding comfort and control. Many of them are on emtbs too. Don’t knock it till you try it. 😉
I'll be honest, that looks horrendous for climbing. I get that its not designed for climbing and most people arn't chasing the silly steep up as well as the down. I also see a disadvantage for long distance where being stretched out is more comfortable that being to bolt upright.

Anyway, it wont be my thing. If someone turns up with one i'll give it a go. But wont be buying one to try. I would definitely want to upsize the bike to run this stem.
 
I read a review on Radivist where he seems to prefer the 90 run positioned the other way round, so + 15 instead of -15.

I’m trying to work out if I would have enough room? 6/3 on 515 reach currently running +42.5 and 50 rise.

Any advice welcome.
 
I'll be honest, that looks horrendous for climbing. I get that its not designed for climbing and most people arn't chasing the silly steep up as well as the down. I also see a disadvantage for long distance where being stretched out is more comfortable that being to bolt upright.

Anyway, it wont be my thing. If someone turns up with one i'll give it a go. But wont be buying one to try. I would definitely want to upsize the bike to run this stem.
This was for showing the max case when climbing. The stem here is raised about 180mm on a fairly short 437mm chainstay and fairly slack 75.6 degree seattube angle. Even with this setup that on paper would seem impossible to climb without the front lifting all the time, it still wasn’t a problem, and I can make all the same climbs I could with a traditional stem even clearing some that I hadn’t cleared with a traditional stem like in climbs 5 and 7. If you are worried that this would be too tall even still with how I could clean all of these without problem or front wheel lifts, you can certainly run it lower than this with the lower Gen 2 90mm that’s more trail oriented which can also be run in +15mm for an even more trail and climb oriented ride dynamic. Don’t knock it till you try it. The skepticism you have is the same that everyone else has had before trying it, but the number one thing people say after actually trying it on a bike setup well for them to use it is that it’s not as weird as it looks and rides way better than they expected. 😏

Long distance rides are where a lot of my customers really love the comfort from the more upright position. You get much less strain on your lower back, neck, shoulders, arms, and hands all with a more open chest for easy breathing. That decreased strain translates to decreased fatigue so you can ride longer more comfortably.

Though it’s not typically necessary, and all my happy customers found benefits using it on the same bike they already had over a traditional stem, you can run it on a much larger bike too. Doing so will give a bike that is much more stable than traditionally, but still very maneuverable and easy to carve tight due to the increased leverage from the RR stems Raised height and closer bar position, and the Reversed offsets steering dynamics. 😄

I like the Loam Wolf review of this where he set a PB on his first try with the stem, and then also concluded its not for him :D

I actually think thats pretty cool, he tried it, it was obviously something there, but he prefers his current world. Nothing wrong with that
In the Loam Wolf review his only issue really was hitting his knee when doing tight turns climbing switchbacks and the looks, and he blew that up into a deal breaking issue. He was faster descending than ever before first ride on it, had no issues climbing, and felt great cornering, but couldn’t figure out how to avoid the knee issue. Instead of reaching out to me about how I get over that issue despite telling him to reach out directly multiple times about if he had any issues so I could help direct him how to fix them like I do with my customers who all get my personal number in the instructions with the stem, he assumed it was an insurmountable issue and then posted the review. The solution is just to move your knee out of the way… You can actually hit your knee on the bar when doing a tight switchback climb on a traditional stem too, but you have the muscle memory from all your years riding a bike of that your knee and your hands are in this position, and you know how to avoid them intersecting. Now your hands are in a different position, so you need to learn the new position.

This was my video response explaining how to get around that issue with a description of how to do it.

I didn’t get a response from them though or a retest to see if their one deal breaking issue went away when doing the proper technique to avoid it…
 
This was for showing the max case when climbing. The stem here is raised about 180mm on a fairly short 437mm chainstay and fairly slack 75.6 degree seattube angle. Even with this setup that on paper would seem impossible to climb without the front lifting all the time, it still wasn’t a problem, and I can make all the same climbs I could with a traditional stem even clearing some that I hadn’t cleared with a traditional stem like in climbs 5 and 7. If you are worried that this would be too tall even still with how I could clean all of these without problem or front wheel lifts, you can certainly run it lower than this with the lower Gen 2 90mm that’s more trail oriented which can also be run in +15mm for an even more trail and climb oriented ride dynamic. Don’t knock it till you try it. The skepticism you have is the same that everyone else has had before trying it, but the number one thing people say after actually trying it on a bike setup well for them to use it is that it’s not as weird as it looks and rides way better than they expected. 😏

Long distance rides are where a lot of my customers really love the comfort from the more upright position. You get much less strain on your lower back, neck, shoulders, arms, and hands all with a more open chest for easy breathing. That decreased strain translates to decreased fatigue so you can ride longer more comfortably.

Though it’s not typically necessary, and all my happy customers found benefits using it on the same bike they already had over a traditional stem, you can run it on a much larger bike too. Doing so will give a bike that is much more stable than traditionally, but still very maneuverable and easy to carve tight due to the increased leverage from the RR stems Raised height and closer bar position, and the Reversed offsets steering dynamics. 😄


In the Loam Wolf review his only issue really was hitting his knee when doing tight turns climbing switchbacks and the looks, and he blew that up into a deal breaking issue. He was faster descending than ever before first ride on it, had no issues climbing, and felt great cornering, but couldn’t figure out how to avoid the knee issue. Instead of reaching out to me about how I get over that issue despite telling him to reach out directly multiple times about if he had any issues so I could help direct him how to fix them like I do with my customers who all get my personal number in the instructions with the stem, he assumed it was an insurmountable issue and then posted the review. The solution is just to move your knee out of the way… You can actually hit your knee on the bar when doing a tight switchback climb on a traditional stem too, but you have the muscle memory from all your years riding a bike of that your knee and your hands are in this position, and you know how to avoid them intersecting. Now your hands are in a different position, so you need to learn the new position.

This was my video response explaining how to get around that issue with a description of how to do it.

I didn’t get a response from them though or a retest to see if their one deal breaking issue went away when doing the proper technique to avoid it…
I do get it. But still it aint my jam. I agree it would be nice on the down once tuned in. But that riding position would be hell for me. I hated my voima riding position that was too upright with seat angle too steep, TT length too short, knees to close to the handle bars, that cramped position gave me back pain. I wanted to be more stretched out. This would be that but worse. I understand that old men with sore backs like to sit bolt upright. But its not functional for me for 4+ hours of aggressive riding.

I'm sorry but that climb position is terrible. Its about as terrible as it can get. It would significantly reduce my technical climbing ability. Those climbs you upload aren't that steep and even the shallow stairs you ride you are close to the limit.
This isn' t a climbing solution. Its optimised for descending at the expense of climbing.

Again, this isn't for me and wouldn't work on my current e-bike which is already running reach a little shorter than optimal for me. I have no plans on changing that e-bike for the foreseeable future.

But If I come across someone with one, then ill give it ago.
 
I do get it. But still it aint my jam. I agree it would be nice on the down once tuned in. But that riding position would be hell for me. I hated my voima riding position that was too upright with seat angle too steep, TT length too short, knees to close to the handle bars, that cramped position gave me back pain. I wanted to be more stretched out. This would be that but worse. I understand that old men with sore backs like to sit bolt upright. But its not functional for me for 4+ hours of aggressive riding.

I'm sorry but that climb position is terrible. Its about as terrible as it can get. It would significantly reduce my technical climbing ability. Those climbs you upload aren't that steep and even the shallow stairs you ride you are close to the limit.
This isn' t a climbing solution. Its optimised for descending at the expense of climbing.

Again, this isn't for me and wouldn't work on my current e-bike which is already running reach a little shorter than optimal for me. I have no plans on changing that e-bike for the foreseeable future.

But If I come across someone with one, then ill give it ago.
Every body is different I suppose. I went to a more upright posture to alleviate lower back and shoulder strain.
 
Every body is different I suppose. I went to a more upright posture to alleviate lower back and shoulder strain.
Exactly. I've been refining my riding position for 30 years... I know what works and what doesn't.

I'm currently running 455 reach and my optimal with the current set up is 465. If I went to the reverse stem idea i'd want to be 480 reach at least maybe 495. I'd also want to extend chainstay from 445 to maybe 460. It would be a radical departure from the current set up.

I really don't think slapping a this stem on my current bike would be yield anything usefull as its already short for my size.
 
No issues climbing on this at all. Using body position to weight the front.

Bike is incredible in this configuration.

View attachment 179390
Do you ever climb with the saddle lowered? My Husqvarna HC1 actually climbs better with the saddle down about halfway, just feels good. I can’t really explain it, I had a MC2 that wanted the seat all the way up to climb but couldn’t get along with the otherwise handling of that bike. Thinking I might get along just fine with a reverse stem on the HC.
 
Exactly. I've been refining my riding position for 30 years... I know what works and what doesn't.

I'm currently running 455 reach and my optimal with the current set up is 465. If I went to the reverse stem idea i'd want to be 480 reach at least maybe 495. I'd also want to extend chainstay from 445 to maybe 460. It would be a radical departure from the current set up.

I really don't think slapping a this stem on my current bike would be yield anything usefull as its already short for my size.
Generally I would agree that if your bike is already with a traditional stem on the small side for you, then adding an RR stem is not going to be as beneficial. Individual preferences play a roll too, so sometimes the super playful slalom bike type feel you can get with the RR stem on something a bit small for you can be really fun, but generally I would say bias towards a bike that feels perfect to a bit big when setup traditional for a good feel when switching to RR. How tall are you?
 
I read a review on Radivist where he seems to prefer the 90 run positioned the other way round, so + 15 instead of -15.

I’m trying to work out if I would have enough room? 6/3 on 515 reach currently running +42.5 and 50 rise.

Any advice welcome.
You could run it -15mm on that frame with some spacers below it and the 50mm rise bar for a good fit. 😄 I do have some riders use it in the +15mm position, and I do recommend to do so sometimes either for riders on bikes a bit small for running it all the way in -15mm, or riders looking for a more in between traditional and full RR position for their riding style or for more trail and XC types. I’d say you get the best cornering and steering dynamics in -15mm position. In +15mm when accounting for the backsweep of the bars, your hands will often be about inline to a bit behind the steering axis. As such it still aligns to the general Raised Reversed geo philosophy just to a smaller degree. 🙂
 
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