Thömus Oberrider (Avinox high-pivot)

[sethimus]

Thomas

americans at what they do best: butchering european brand names

 

[jever98]

americans at what they do best: butchering european brand names

Chillax, Alter. Nicht alle sprechen Deutsch (oder Schweizerdeutsch)

 

[jever98]

Thanks! The one class I failed in college was German . Switched back to espaniol REAL quick.

To do proportional (or size specific) rear centers without making rear frame components unique, the front triangles for each size are just designed with the pivot points further rearward with each increasing size. Same parts and kinematics just mounted further back.

Forbidden does this:

View attachment 178372

I have a hunch now looking at this that the reason the winning Trek / Norco / Velduro HP design always seems to share rear centers across the size range is that the shock is mounted in front of the seat tube so can't shift rearward per above. Forbidden uses a shock tunnel, so shock can just move further back down the tunnel.

In order for it to work with the Trek / Norco / Velduro HP design the S size would need to mount the shock awkwardly forward of the seat tube such that in the XL it was right up against it. That may not be possible from a packaging standpoint.

Hold on... the Forbidden DOES use a vertically mounted shock. So they made different rear triangles for all sizes?

 

[Blownoutrides]

Hold on... the Forbidden DOES use a vertically mounted shock. So they made different rear triangles for all sizes?
View attachment 178375

Oh hey there you go - I was only thinking of their dreadnought/druid muscle bikes cause that's what I've got.

I'm guessing the answer is that they've got the same rear ends somehow but you'd have to overlay the different sizes.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

506mm seat tube in xl

 

[Mlok]

I don't know a ton about the EightPins dropper that can be seen in the video on the Thomas, but I think that it has a short stack length and always drops all of the way down so that might make up for the 470mm STL.

I have longer seat tube with EightPins too and it is ok: frame L, inseam 84cm, seat tube 475mm, cranks 165mm -> EightPins NGS3.0 188mm real travel. But it's true that with a shorter seat tube, I could have up to 210 mm of travel.

 

[Suns_PSD]

americans at what they do best: butchering european brand names

I too enjoy stereotyping an entire nationality based on interactions with one member on a bicycle internet forum.

For example, from you I've learned that the Germans are generally:

1) Terrible engineers, not logical at all,
2) Hella funny, I'm talking Chris Rock on Crack kind of funny.
3) Charming, thoughtful, inquisitive, openminded, is there anything that the Germans CAN do,
4) Ain't no party like a Human Caterpillar party.

Am I right? Did I pretty much nail the entire German populace based on our interactions online?

 

[jever98]

I too enjoy stereotyping an entire nationality based on interactions with one member on a bicycle internet forum.

For example, from you I've learned that the Germans are generally:

1) Terrible engineers, not logical at all,
2) Hella funny, I'm talking Chris Rock on Crack kind of funny.
3) Charming, thoughtful, inquisitive, openminded, is there anything that the Germans CAN do,
4) Ain't no party like a Human Caterpillar party.

Am I right? Did I pretty much nail the entire German populace based on our interactions online?

Nailed 2, 3 and 4 . Except you forgot that we are the masters of concatenated words (I'm German btw).

Donaudampfschifffahrtskapitänsmütze is a totally valid word.

 

[doochenozzle]

This just looks more well thought out with lots of options (I'm thinking how Swiss is that....). I'm really excited by this one. Had a Forbidden Druid Core on order, but the LBS moved it on as I'm not in country in Oz for 4 months (it arrived a couple of days before I left, but I couldn't pick up). They are trying to talk me into taking the next batch some time mid year (given Forbiddens track record on delivery, maybe mid next year!). TBH, this interests me more. The only downside is there are no dealers that I know of in Oz. Not sure if they would ship to Oz anyway.
I'll wait to see if the rumours about the Forbidden e-Dreadnought are true and jump on that.

Forbidden has grown to the point they do ok with deliveries. Bikes are on boats headed to Europe. If your Oz distro actually pays on time, it will be there mid year.

 

[doochenozzle]

506mm seat tube in xl

Is that good or bad? Too short? Too long?

 

[Blownoutrides]

americans at what they do best: butchering european brand names

Give us a break. We are too busy trying to catch up with Deutschland circa 1933.

 

[slickrock]

Is that good or bad? Too short? Too long?

Too Long for that size. Limits how far your dropper can go. My Sonni K1 is 343mm, albeit this is effectively a small frame. You also have to consider insertion depth as well, which can be even more limiting when seat tubes are shorter. Does anyone what this is for the Oberrider?

 

[Plummet]

Thanks! The one class I failed in college was German . Switched back to espaniol REAL quick.

To do proportional (or size specific) rear centers without making rear frame components unique, the front triangles for each size are just designed with the pivot points further rearward with each increasing size. Same parts and kinematics just mounted further back.

Forbidden does this:

View attachment 178372

I have a hunch now looking at this that the reason the winning Trek / Norco / Velduro HP design always seems to share rear centers across the size range is that the shock is mounted in front of the seat tube so can't shift rearward per above. Forbidden uses a shock tunnel, so shock can just move further back down the tunnel.

In order for it to work with the Trek / Norco / Velduro HP design the S size would need to mount the shock awkwardly forward of the seat tube such that in the XL it was right up against it. That may not be possible from a packaging standpoint.

Nah, its down to cost of multiple molds and having to rework kinematics on each chainstay lengths.

Simply put, it costs a lot less to run one chainstay length across.

Plus the outer lying sizes represent fuck all of the sales. So they make the rear end to loosely suit m and l and every other size can get fucked rc:fc ratios.

 

[sethimus]

Nailed 2, 3 and 4 . Except you forgot that we are the masters of concatenated words (I'm German btw).

Donaudampfschifffahrtskapitänsmütze is a totally valid word.

i own a Eierschalensollbruchstellenverursacher

 

[Blownoutrides]

Nah, its down to cost of multiple molds and having to rework kinematics on each chainstay lengths.

Simply put, it costs a lot less to run one chainstay length across.

Plus the outer lying sizes represent fuck all of the sales. So they make the rear end to loosely suit m and l and every other size can get fucked rc:fc ratios.

Agree 100% with your last point. That is definitely happening.

But if rear end parts are the same and the only unique part is the front triangle for each size that moves the rear end attachment points further aft for each bigger size, then you don't need a reworked kinematic or additional molds.

Actual chainstays stay the same, but get moved further back away from BB via offset attachment points. Shock & links moving with them.

That is my understanding of how forbidden are doing it (their pedal bikes at least)

 

[Flo7]

506mm seat tube in xl

Hope that will be include the Eightpins stack?!

 

[zizajaun]

Seat tube length is a deal breaker: 396 mm on small, 440 on medium, 470 on large. The seat tubes would fit well on the next size up (e.g. 400mm is good for medium, 440 large...).

 

[mike425]

Seat tube length is a deal breaker: 396 mm on small, 440 on medium, 470 on large. The seat tubes would fit well on the next size up (e.g. 400mm is good for medium, 440 large...).

Yeh, I'm a bit puzzled by it, almost like a typo. The rest of it seems so well thought out

 

[MOG]

Pretty sure the seat tube thing must be length to top of eightpins collar as it is more or less flush to the actual seat tube. So potentially a saving of at least 25mm over running a conventional dropper. Based on my current bike that means for me at almost 6 foot I could happily run the Eightpins with 205mm of drop.

 

[Mars2]

Pretty sure the seat tube thing must be length to top of eightpins collar as it is more or less flush to the actual seat tube. So potentially a saving of at least 25mm over running a conventional dropper. Based on my current bike that means for me at almost 6 foot I could happily run the Eightpins with 205mm of drop.

I also think like you. My Strive On Small is given for 395mm but if I measured to where the top part of adjustable part go in bottom part it's 450mm so 10mm higher top of eighteen pins on Medium size of this bike ( 440mm). and the reach will be very similar also with Strive On small at 450 mm and this one on Medium at 455mm

PS: I use a 200mm dropper seat on my Strive On Small so with the original 150mm dropper this measurement would be around 500mm!!! yes I have also pinned 145mm cranck that is why so high

The Strive/on is well known to be a bike where you need to take a bike one size down. I usually take medium but on Strive on I had to take a Small.

Look like the Thomus M will be very similar to my Striven Small for the reach and seat tube length.
specialy you can adjust reach by 10mm

What I miss in the geo spec is the wheel base length.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Pretty sure the seat tube thing must be length to top of eightpins collar as it is more or less flush to the actual seat tube. So potentially a saving of at least 25mm over running a conventional dropper. Based on my current bike that means for me at almost 6 foot I could happily run the Eightpins with 205mm of drop.

It would be a non standard way of measuring seat tube height if they’re including part of the dropper post as the measurement.

 

[Mars2]

It would be a non standard way of measuring seat tube height if they’re including part of the dropper post as the measurement.

with Eightpin the setup is very different so it will never be possible to measure as on a regular bike.

seatposts

Eightpins revolutioniert Mountainbike-Sattelstützen: Integriertes Design mit bis zu 258mm Hub, 30% leichter, null Flexing. Entwickelt & produziert in Österreich. Jetzt entdecken!

www.eightpins.com

 

[Mars2]

with Eightpin the setup is very different so it will never be possible to measure as on a regular bike.

seatposts

Eightpins revolutioniert Mountainbike-Sattelstützen: Integriertes Design mit bis zu 258mm Hub, 30% leichter, null Flexing. Entwickelt & produziert in Österreich. Jetzt entdecken!

www.eightpins.com

with picture you see it better

 

[Mars2]

the question si do they take measurement like green or red arrow? any way still very different from measuring on a regular bike setup

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

with picture you see it better

View attachment 178429

View attachment 178430

View attachment 178431

What if you wanted to use a normal dropper? Like sram AXS? Is that possible?

the question si do they take measurement like green or red arrow? any way still very different from hearing on a regular bike setup

View attachment 178432

if they have a 506mm seat tube like the green arrow, then whoever designed it is not in touch with the market demands of enduro riders.

If it’s the red arrow, then it’s still very high (let’s say the dropper has 30mm stack - which is high for a dropper) - it’s still 476mm seat tube height. Which is high for a bike that has no need for it to be that high.

 

[Mars2]

What if you wanted to use a normal dropper? Like sram AXS? Is that possible?

if they have a 506mm seat tube like the green arrow, then whoever designed it is not in touch with the market demands of enduro riders.

If it’s the red arrow, then it’s still very high (let’s say the dropper has 30mm stack - which is high for a dropper) - it’s still 476mm seat tube height. Which is high for a bike that has no need for it to be that high.

I don't have any idea for your big size's but for me 170cm ( 79cm leg) the M will be spot on with a 200mm dropper ( like I have on my Strive on) using 145mm crank. With a 150mm dropper I would need about 500mm with this kind of measurement !!!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

on picture you can see that on my Canyon the seat tube is 55mm higher than seat tube top. this is with a 200mm dropper with the original 150mm dropper from Canyon I was 105mm higher. I'm now much much lower than all my friend who are same size like me because the strive on allows me to use a 200mm dropper on a size S

View attachment 178433

I agree. Canyon had an excellent low seat tube. Allowing you to run a long 200mm dropper. Exactly how it should be. Low seat tubes allow the rider to choose a suitable length dropper

High seat tubes do the opposite.

 

[Mars2]

on picture you can see that on my Canyon the seat tube is 55mm higher than seat tube top. this is with a 200mm dropper with the original 150mm dropper from Canyon I was at 105mm . I'm now much much lower than all my friend who are same size like me because the strive on allows me to use a 200mm dropper on a size S

 

[Plummet]

What if you wanted to use a normal dropper? Like sram AXS? Is that possible?

if they have a 506mm seat tube like the green arrow, then whoever designed it is not in touch with the market demands of enduro riders.

If it’s the red arrow, then it’s still very high (let’s say the dropper has 30mm stack - which is high for a dropper) - it’s still 476mm seat tube height. Which is high for a bike that has no need for it to be that high.

Seat tube is about 30mm higher than standard across the whole range.

 

[Mars2]

Seat tube is about 30mm higher than standard across the whole range.

30mm exactly where the bottom part of my dropper seat on the picture above so with eightpin it would be perfect.