Thömus Oberrider (Avinox high-pivot)

[jever98]

The newly announced Thömus Oberrider sounds very interesting (Oberrider - It's a beast! • Thömus):
- Avinox with 600 or 800wh
- High Pivot
- 140 or 170 travel (changeable)
- Full 29 or MX
- Adjustable headset
- Tunable rear triangle stiffness
- Decent stack and size range
- No headset routing (but is an option if you're mad enough)
- From an older Swiss brand (in my books, more often than not, means good service and a chance they'll be around)
- Price quoted on E-MTB magazine as starting at 5490CHF for a "base model"

The only obvious (potential) minus I can spot for now are the short, non-size-specific chain stays (436mm). No idea about CS growth at sag.

Thoughts?

 

[JP-NZ]

Looks like a Velduro

 

[jever98]

Looks like a Velduro

But has significant differences

 

[slickrock]

Looks like a Velduro

Just like the Flux, on-again/off-again question if that's an iTrack idler. Hard to determine without getting a closeup of the HP. Like the downtube - may be the thinnest of the HP Avinox offerings.

 

[Red Peekay]

Looks like a Velduro

This just looks more well thought out with lots of options (I'm thinking how Swiss is that....). I'm really excited by this one. Had a Forbidden Druid Core on order, but the LBS moved it on as I'm not in country in Oz for 4 months (it arrived a couple of days before I left, but I couldn't pick up). They are trying to talk me into taking the next batch some time mid year (given Forbiddens track record on delivery, maybe mid next year!). TBH, this interests me more. The only downside is there are no dealers that I know of in Oz. Not sure if they would ship to Oz anyway.
I'll wait to see if the rumours about the Forbidden e-Dreadnought are true and jump on that.

 

[Mart-e]

Wonder what gave way to design this lower shock mount shuttle?....

Another player is a good thing right.....

Stand back and push'm through!

 

[B Rabbit]

Looks pretty cool, the downtube does look super clean, but id probably go the Teewing Flux due to chainstay length and being available in Australia.
Having said that, the more choice the merrier. Most OEMs are getting pretty behind the ball at this point.

 

[FrogSkunk]

Wonder what gave way to design this lower shock mount shuttle?....

Another player is a good thing right.....

Stand back and push'm through!

Probably has something to do with the travel option? Thats just my guess though

 

[Mart-e]

Probably has something to do with the travel option? Thats just my guess though

It appears the SL and ST each design spec to it own specific shock shuttle.... SL with smaller shock, possibly a 185 x55.... ST guessing it be 205 x65 shock....

 

[Astro66]

Pffft ...... Swiss bike with base model starting at AUD$10K in Europe. Dread to think the selling price after landed costs in Australia.

 

[Chrysaor]

I hate when marketing writes 157km of range for an enduro ebike

 

[sethimus]

Pffft ...... Swiss bike with base model starting at AUD$10K in Europe. Dread to think the selling price after landed costs in Australia.

afaik there is no foreign option to buy them. they tried to in 2023 with a franchise model but that’s no longer an option, only through their own stores in switzerland

 

[sethimus]

I hate when marketing writes 157km of range for an enduro ebike

you understand when you learn their slogan is literally „bikes from the farm“, as is their typical target customer range

 

[west]

A "Swiss"-army knife of an emtb. Great that brands are offering good levels of adjustability in their frames now. The cable routing options are a big plus for sure.

 

[mike425]

This looks really interesting. Am I misreading this, it says base builds from 5450 CHF? That's basically £5300 GBP? Seems good value considering a velduro frame would cost that?

 

[Blownoutrides]

This suspension layout is a winner. Whether it's Trek or Norco or Velduro or whoever these dudes are, it reaps the benefits of a high pivot without unexpected things happening in corners or loading up jumps / drops. And it does all that while keeping the seat tube 100% available for whatever length dropper you've been endowed with.

I'm just trying to figure out why all the bikes with this suspension layout seem to carry the same exact rear center across all sizes.

I had no luck trying to find the geo chart for these guys but someone commented that chainstays are 435 across the size range (?).

Great in different ways for every size except XL, which will be a familiar "you just need to think about weighting the front in corners" adventure.

I can't even remember my name in corners.

As a designer in a different industry, I can say with conviction that these one-size-fits-all rear centers are just 100% lazy / rushed design.

The actual chain stays and rear suspension layout can be identical across the size range, it just requires planning for that module to fit in the S size and then shift rearward in the larger sizes. The only element changing across the size range is the front triangle, which needs to be unique anyway so there are no added manufacturing costs. There are, however, some added front end (see what I did there) design costs in doing the actual design work to figure out how to do it the right way.

Forbidden does this, but the result is polarizing because their chain stays are both long and proportional. That is to say, for the typical size L frame their rear center is quite long compared to most other brands, and then they carry that same proportional relationship across the size range.

if brands want a more playful rear end than what forbidden are offering, I think that's totally legitimate. They just need to make that proportional for all the different sizes so the bikes actually ride as designed for everyone.

Once again, thank you for coming to my TED talk.

 

[jever98]

This suspension layout is a winner. Whether it's Trek or Norco or Velduro or whoever these dudes are, it reaps the benefits of a high pivot without unexpected things happening in corners or loading up jumps / drops. And it does all that while keeping the seat tube 100% available for whatever length dropper you've been endowed with.

I'm just trying to figure out why all the bikes with this suspension layout seem to carry the same exact rear center across all sizes.

I had no luck trying to find the geo chart for these guys but someone commented that chainstays are 435 across the size range (?).

Great in different ways for every size except XL, which will be a familiar "you just need to think about weighting the front in corners" adventure.

I can't even remember my name in corners.

As a designer in a different industry, I can say with conviction that these one-size-fits-all rear centers are just 100% lazy / rushed design.

The actual chain stays and rear suspension layout can be identical across the size range, it just requires planning for that module to fit in the S size and then shift rearward in the larger sizes. The only element changing across the size range is the front triangle, which needs to be unique anyway so there are no added manufacturing costs. There are, however, some added front end (see what I did there) design costs in doing the actual design work to figure out how to do it the right way.

Forbidden does this, but the result is polarizing because their chain stays are both long and proportional. That is to say, for the typical size L frame their rear center is quite long compared to most other brands, and then they carry that same proportional relationship across the size range.

if brands want a more playful rear end than what forbidden are offering, I think that's totally legitimate. They just need to make that proportional for all the different sizes so the bikes actually ride as designed for everyone.

Once again, thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Here is a screenshot of the 170mm XL geo chart - they posted it in German, but you can figure out what's going on (on Oberrider - It's a beast! • Thömus)

I don't quite understand how you would get different CS lengths with the same CS mould. Can you help me understand?

Thanks

 

[Ndanger]

you understand when you learn their slogan is literally „bikes from the farm“, as is their typical target customer range

Speaking of Farm Bikes in the Swiss Alps... I came across this farmer in Lenzerheide (smile)

 

[sethimus]

This looks really interesting. Am I misreading this, it says base builds from 5450 CHF? That's basically £5300 GBP? Seems good value considering a velduro frame would cost that?

velduro framekit is 4500chf

 

[jever98]

velduro framekit is 4500chf

Base model implies a built bike for me. Doesn't sound bad, though we don't know what the kit is, of course.

 

[irie]

Base model implies a built bike for me. Doesn't sound bad, though we don't know what the kit is, of course.

In my LBS last week saw the price on the Velduro on display, my jaw dropped! Picked it up and it felt to me like it weighed 23.5kg. Lovely black and gold bike with quality components, but IIRC was £7,999 is my memory playing me tricks?

 

[mike425]

Looking at the geo chart. Main downer for me is 470mm seat tube on the large...I thought everyone was stopping doing that now with the longer droppers. Really annoying

 

[Plummet]

Am i right in thinking the battery can be removed without taking the motor out?

 

[Mcharza]

Here is a screenshot of the 170mm XL geo chart - they posted it in German, but you can figure out what's going on (on Oberrider - It's a beast! • Thömus)
View attachment 178363

I don't quite understand how you would get different CS lengths with the same CS mould. Can you help me understand?

Thanks

Here's in english size L

 

[sliverxy]

here the GEO

 

[Blownoutrides]

Here is a screenshot of the 170mm XL geo chart - they posted it in German, but you can figure out what's going on (on Oberrider - It's a beast! • Thömus)
View attachment 178363

I don't quite understand how you would get different CS lengths with the same CS mould. Can you help me understand?

Thanks

Thanks! The one class I failed in college was German . Switched back to espaniol REAL quick.

To do proportional (or size specific) rear centers without making rear frame components unique, the front triangles for each size are just designed with the pivot points further rearward with each increasing size. Same parts and kinematics just mounted further back.

Forbidden does this:

I have a hunch now looking at this that the reason the winning Trek / Norco / Velduro HP design always seems to share rear centers across the size range is that the shock is mounted in front of the seat tube so can't shift rearward per above. Forbidden uses a shock tunnel, so shock can just move further back down the tunnel.

In order for it to work with the Trek / Norco / Velduro HP design the S size would need to mount the shock awkwardly forward of the seat tube such that in the XL it was right up against it. That may not be possible from a packaging standpoint.

 

[Blownoutrides]

Speaking of Farm Bikes in the Swiss Alps... I came across this farmer in Lenzerheide (smile)

View attachment 178367

That's just the XL reach with 435 chainstays.

 

[jever98]

Thanks! The one class I failed in college was German . Switched back to espaniol REAL quick.

To do proportional (or size specific) rear centers without making rear frame components unique, the front triangles for each size are just designed with the pivot points further rearward with each increasing size. Same parts and kinematics just mounted further back.

Forbidden does this:

View attachment 178372

I have a hunch now looking at this that the reason the winning Trek / Norco / Velduro HP design always seems to share rear centers across the size range is that the shock is mounted in front of the seat tube so can't shift rearward per above. Forbidden uses a shock tunnel, so shock can just move further back down the tunnel.

In order for it to work with the Trek / Norco / Velduro HP design the S size would need to mount the shock awkwardly forward of the seat tube such that in the XL it was right up against it. That may not be possible from a packaging standpoint.

Thanks - I learned something new today, yay!

I guess a shock placement below the TT (like the Levo, for example) might also allow this approach?

 

[Suns_PSD]

Looking at the geo chart. Main downer for me is 470mm seat tube on the large...I thought everyone was stopping doing that now with the longer droppers. Really annoying

I don't know a ton about the EightPins dropper that can be seen in the video on the Thomas, but I think that it has a short stack length and always drops all of the way down so that might make up for the 470mm STL.

 

[jever98]

I don't know a ton about the EightPins dropper that can be seen in the video on the Thomas, but I think that it has a short stack length and always drops all of the way down so that might make up for the 470mm STL.

I didn't catch on that they use the EightPins. That's super cool! To me, it makes a ton of sense. And before it is raised: you don't need to use it, you can still use a normal dropper.