neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #91
The lower one in the image has a C Clip, and the top one stays in place due to the cables which are stiff.
I agree, it will make sense to glue them in place for the final version.
Full Power to Lightweight - Bosch 800Wh replaced with 400WH compact
- Thread starter neiloxford
- Start date
I agree, it will make sense to glue them in place for the final version.
I had a look on my side in case you end up sharing the plans
and I found some individuals offering printing services in PA12-XX. It might turn out cheaper.
Plummet
Flash Git
Yeah, me.
Look back in this thread yourl see a bunch of my posts on the subject.
400wh is awesome for weight and balance of the bike. It feels a lot like a normal bike.
Also the motor does not derate with the 400wh in. Its full power.
400wh 21.5kg 180mm bike with yhe ability to punch 100nm if a thing of beauty. Such a special bit of kit.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #94
I have started looking at glue and it is not easy to find a good glue for nylon / high heat, so I am going to insert a nut and bolt to hold the boxes together. First draft of the top mount...
Plummet
Flash Git
Looking good. From a design improvement perspective get in there with the radius tool on your your cad program and slap some nice radii on there. Square edges can chip and break and hang up on stuff. Also a slight taper to the mating parts so the can be a firm but easy fit. Tolerance is everything when designing. The magic tolerance allows the part to fit together without binding up or being too sloppy.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #96
Upper mount:
I expect I will make some small revisions in the future.
I am still waiting for the battery cover for example.
Important to read the disclaimer.
I expect I will make some small revisions in the future.
I am still waiting for the battery cover for example.
Important to read the disclaimer.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #97
Lower mount, which is still missing the holes for the battery cover. I need the Trek battery cover to position the holes, so not finalised despite the names.
www.thingiverse.com
If anybody has any ideas on how to stengthen it internally, I am open to ideas. I am thinking the strenghening could also help hold the top power connection in place.
The cables need to go between the power connections as per the screenshot below.
EMTB Lower by BoschParts123
⚠️ DisclaimerUSE AT YOUR OWN RISKThis 3D model is provided as-is without any guarantees or warranties of any kind, express or implied. The design is intended for experimental use only.By downloading, printing, or using this model, you agree to the following:You assume full responsibility for any...
www.thingiverse.com
If anybody has any ideas on how to stengthen it internally, I am open to ideas. I am thinking the strenghening could also help hold the top power connection in place.
The cables need to go between the power connections as per the screenshot below.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #98
Managed to make it a bit stronger with some internal cross bracing.
Now I just have to figure out how to screw the two parts together.
Now I just have to figure out how to screw the two parts together.
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neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #99
Still waiting for the Trek battery cover so I can line up the holes in the lower base.
In the meantime, I have been investigating 3D companies & filaments, and this is well priced , high melting point, and stronger than most solutions.
In the meantime, I have been investigating 3D companies & filaments, and this is well priced , high melting point, and stronger than most solutions.
Plummet
Flash Git
Chuck a radius on the inside corners too.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #101
Last edited:
Plummet
Flash Git
Like to put a small fillet on every corner and hole. That way you reduce stress risers, parts more easily mate and there's less chance of chipping and damage of the parts.
Here's a quick example.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #103
Updated version:
Last edited:
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #104
Trek have stock of the battery cover, so I should get it later this week or early next week.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #105
Battery cover has arrived and it fits an old base I had lying around.
I will print the parts tonight, and test tomorrow with PLA.
Latest thinking is to print with PA12 using MJF, as it is strong in all dimensions and has a reasonable price to print - around £50
I will print the parts tonight, and test tomorrow with PLA.
Latest thinking is to print with PA12 using MJF, as it is strong in all dimensions and has a reasonable price to print - around £50
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #106
Printed and it all fits together
I need to make some small tweaks now that I have put it all together for the first time.
I hope to finalise the designs in the next couple of days, and I will then send it off to the printers.
When completed, I will do a post with links to the final designs, the bosch parts, and the different screws and bolts that I have used.
I need to make some small tweaks now that I have put it all together for the first time.
I hope to finalise the designs in the next couple of days, and I will then send it off to the printers.
When completed, I will do a post with links to the final designs, the bosch parts, and the different screws and bolts that I have used.
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Very good job !Printed and it all fits together
I need to make some small tweaks now that I have put it all together for the first time.
I hope to finalise the designs in the next couple of days, and I will then send it off to the printers.
When completed, I will do a post with links to the final designs, the bosch parts, and the different screws and bolts that I have used.
View attachment 169488 View attachment 169489 View attachment 169490
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #108
Tweaks made, and the battery attaches to the bike
Now it is time to select a printing company and filament - I still can't decide.
I might need to fit some foam between the battery and the cover on the Trek Rail - I will only know on a rough track.
Now it is time to select a printing company and filament - I still can't decide.
I might need to fit some foam between the battery and the cover on the Trek Rail - I will only know on a rough track.
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Nice.Tweaks made, and the battery attaches to the bike
Now it is time to select a printing company and filament - I still can't decide.
I might need to fit some foam between the battery and the cover on the Trek Rail - I will only know on a rough track.
Have you tested it on the road to feel the difference (or not)?
Bogdan_CH
Active member
Did you weight it by chance with all the add ones?
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #111
Not yet - I will try to test tomorrow - it would be sensible before paying for the parts.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #112
I have printed in PLA which is a fair bit lighter than PA12, so weight now would not be a fair measurment. I will try to weigh the mounts, bosch parts, nuts and bolts before I assemble.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #113
Some more photos...
The battery mount sticks out a little bit in the middle section when on the bike, which can be solved one of two ways.
1. Make one of the mounts about 1mm longer. However, they are 72mm in total, so should be the right size.
2. Make the mount glue to the battery, via some foam between the battery and the mount. This is what Trek does with the 600wh and 800wh battery, so I think this is what I am going to do.
The battery mount sticks out a little bit in the middle section when on the bike, which can be solved one of two ways.
1. Make one of the mounts about 1mm longer. However, they are 72mm in total, so should be the right size.
2. Make the mount glue to the battery, via some foam between the battery and the mount. This is what Trek does with the 600wh and 800wh battery, so I think this is what I am going to do.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #114
There is a 3rd option, which is to make two versions of one of the mounts. One being 1mm longer - I will do this.
Bogdan_CH
Active member
I'm asking as the PLA is not feathers. Wondering what is the engoal gain.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #116
I have ordered the parts in MJF PA12 - they should arrive next week.
Final piece of the puzzle is to find a good glue.
Final piece of the puzzle is to find a good glue.
SimonDee
Member
I did some experimenting a while ago and found modified polyurethanes, like Sikaflex for windscreens for example, are the best adhesive options for low surface energy materials like plastics.
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #118
Printed
neiloxford
Active member
- Thread starter
- #119
Weight
Battery_______2,043 grams (Plummet above)
Mounts________161 grams (Scales)
Bosch BCH3901___ 25 grams (Manufacturer)
Bosch Adaptor____21 grams (Manufacturer)
Nuts and Bolts____20 grams (Scales)
Glue___________ 2 grams (ChatGBT)
Total_________2,272 grams
Comparison
800wh___3,900g (Manufacturer)
600wh___3,000g (Manufacturer)
800wh with trek mounts and cover = 4,258 grams
400wh with my mounts, bosch parts and cover = 2,507 grams, a weight saving of 1,751 grams.
Bosch 400wh battery + one of the screws included with the mounts
OR
Bosch BCH3901 - 100mm version
www.allterraincycles.co.uk
Bosch Battery Adapter 2 Smart System
M4 Steel Hex Nuts
M4 12mm Hex Steel Bolts
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166098821085?var=465613598768
Nylon Glue - I went with Loctite HY4070 due to this article
forerunner3d.com
Upper Mount - please read the disclaimer
Lower Mount - please read the disclaimer
www.thingiverse.com
Printing - MJF PA11
MJF PA11 - make use of the discount vouchers, and select the $1.50 shipping option at the checkout.
jlc3dp.com
I do not know if this will be strong enough. If I get anxious using it, I will be printing with SLS PA6-CF/GF which is more expensive. I decided not to use FDM printing, as it is weak in the Z axis. I went with PA11 instead of PA12 as higher impact resistance.
Estimated Cost
Battery_____£260 to £330
Bosch Parts__£35
Printing MJF__£40
Glue_______£25
Nuts & Bolts__£5
Total_______£365 to £445
As a comparison, Bosch 600WH BBP3860 is £725 on ebay
Trek parts with cost
Trek RIB 2.0 Downtube Battery Cover - W5318794 - £20
Trek RIB 2.0 Upper Battery End Cap - W5322238 - £15
Trek M4 Button Head Screw - 10mm - W1052364 - £4
Total £39
Assembly Instructions
I highly recommend doing one or two practise assemblies without glue first, so that you understand how the components fit together, and how the new battery fits into your bike. Obviously do not cycle the bike at this point.
The screenshots below illustrates how the base and lid go together.
Step 1 - attach the lids to the 400 wh battery at both ends, using the M4 12mm bolts and one screw from the mount that came with the 400wh battery (which lid and hole requires this screw will be obvious, hint: the hole you can't see in the photo below). I recommend using threadlocker because the bases will be glued together, so you will not be able to retighten them at a later date.
P.S. The lids are not symmetrical, so orientate them correctly when attached to the battery cover.
Step 2 - slot the cable of the BCH3901 through the big hole in the solid end of the lower base, and hold it in place with the printed o ring. (you could add a dab of glue to hold it in place to stop it rattling) (The o ring is optional as the BCH3901 will need to be glued in place to prevent rattling)
Step 3 - glue the bosch adaptor to the lower lid, as per the 2nd screenshot below.
Step 4 - put the nuts into the lower and upper bases, and attach to the external fittings - in my situation, with the Trek W1052364 screws, attach the Trek W5318794 and Trek W5322238.
Step 5 - place the battery with the lids already attached, into the battery cover with the bases attached, and glue the base and lids together.
P.S Steps 4 & 5 are going to be a bit challenging, and will vary by battery cover design - I am not an engineer, but it should work if you're patient, and think about what you're doing.
Battery_______2,043 grams (Plummet above)
Mounts________161 grams (Scales)
Bosch BCH3901___ 25 grams (Manufacturer)
Bosch Adaptor____21 grams (Manufacturer)
Nuts and Bolts____20 grams (Scales)
Glue___________ 2 grams (ChatGBT)
Total_________2,272 grams
Comparison
800wh___3,900g (Manufacturer)
600wh___3,000g (Manufacturer)
800wh with trek mounts and cover = 4,258 grams
400wh with my mounts, bosch parts and cover = 2,507 grams, a weight saving of 1,751 grams.
Bosch 400wh battery + one of the screws included with the mounts
OR
Bosch BCH3901 - 100mm version
Bosch BCH3901 Charging Socket Cable
Keeping eBike components up to date is key to your safety. Buy your Bosch BCH3901 Charging Socket Cable from All Terrain Cycles today.
www.allterraincycles.co.uk
Bosch Battery Adapter 2 Smart System
M4 Steel Hex Nuts
M4 12mm Hex Steel Bolts
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/166098821085?var=465613598768
Nylon Glue - I went with Loctite HY4070 due to this article
3D Printing Glue Strength Guide
Curious about what strength you could get gluing dissimilar 3D printed materials together? Check out our 3D Printing Glue Strength Guide.
forerunner3d.com
Upper Mount - please read the disclaimer
Lower Mount - please read the disclaimer
EMTB Lower by BoschParts123
⚠️ DisclaimerUSE AT YOUR OWN RISKThis 3D model is provided as-is without any guarantees or warranties of any kind, express or implied. The design is intended for experimental use only.By downloading, printing, or using this model, you agree to the following:You assume full responsibility for any...
www.thingiverse.com
Printing - MJF PA11
MJF PA11 - make use of the discount vouchers, and select the $1.50 shipping option at the checkout.
Online 3D Printing Service | Custom 3D Printed Parts
Custom 3D Printed Parts from $0.30. Professional 3D printing service with SLA(Resin), MJF(Nylon), SLM(Metal), FDM(Plastics), SLS(Nylon), BJ(Metal) and WJP.
I do not know if this will be strong enough. If I get anxious using it, I will be printing with SLS PA6-CF/GF which is more expensive. I decided not to use FDM printing, as it is weak in the Z axis. I went with PA11 instead of PA12 as higher impact resistance.
Estimated Cost
Battery_____£260 to £330
Bosch Parts__£35
Printing MJF__£40
Glue_______£25
Nuts & Bolts__£5
Total_______£365 to £445
As a comparison, Bosch 600WH BBP3860 is £725 on ebay
Trek parts with cost
Trek RIB 2.0 Downtube Battery Cover - W5318794 - £20
Trek RIB 2.0 Upper Battery End Cap - W5322238 - £15
Trek M4 Button Head Screw - 10mm - W1052364 - £4
Total £39
Assembly Instructions
I highly recommend doing one or two practise assemblies without glue first, so that you understand how the components fit together, and how the new battery fits into your bike. Obviously do not cycle the bike at this point.
The screenshots below illustrates how the base and lid go together.
Step 1 - attach the lids to the 400 wh battery at both ends, using the M4 12mm bolts and one screw from the mount that came with the 400wh battery (which lid and hole requires this screw will be obvious, hint: the hole you can't see in the photo below). I recommend using threadlocker because the bases will be glued together, so you will not be able to retighten them at a later date.
P.S. The lids are not symmetrical, so orientate them correctly when attached to the battery cover.
Step 2 - slot the cable of the BCH3901 through the big hole in the solid end of the lower base, and hold it in place with the printed o ring. (you could add a dab of glue to hold it in place to stop it rattling) (The o ring is optional as the BCH3901 will need to be glued in place to prevent rattling)
Step 3 - glue the bosch adaptor to the lower lid, as per the 2nd screenshot below.
Step 4 - put the nuts into the lower and upper bases, and attach to the external fittings - in my situation, with the Trek W1052364 screws, attach the Trek W5318794 and Trek W5322238.
Step 5 - place the battery with the lids already attached, into the battery cover with the bases attached, and glue the base and lids together.
P.S Steps 4 & 5 are going to be a bit challenging, and will vary by battery cover design - I am not an engineer, but it should work if you're patient, and think about what you're doing.
Last edited:
