The frame is cracked. Denied warranty.

[Winford]

somebody having a different view

I have delt with mechanical warranty issues for decades in a professional capacity.

This was an open and shut case for a denied warranty, but people will always argue and comment against facts. people hate the truth bud.

1 + 1 = 2 and no discussion of 7 or 4 is credible or just a different view.

You are not a bad guy, but you spend more time attacking me, and you spend no time discussing relevant topics that concern the facts here

 

[Fangs2k]

100% correct. But factually it does not matter.

Of course it matters, you can’t say you agree they may not be related and then in the next breath say factually it doesn’t matter. Companies getting out of warranty claims for unrelated matters isn’t fair or right.

The problem did not show up until after he had his forks changed. And there are so many red flags, I would be pissed if amflow caved into this garbage pile you seem to be defending poorly

Again, correlation isn’t necessarily causation. What’s needed are facts, not ‘red flags’, I would be pissed if Amflow got out of their responsibility here.

You haven’t got any facts other than some photos and a video that actually don’t show much other than some poor finishing.

I get it you dont like me, or almflow. But you have no credible discussion to add

I don’t know you, but you do come across as an arrogant and condescending tw@t who holds his own opinion above all others.

I actually have no firm opinion of Amflow either, it’s a launch vehicle for DJIs excellent Avinox motor system so likely made by some Chinese factory or other before the brand goes its own way.

But they still need to stand behind their product rather than dismiss it based on some photos.

 

[Fangs2k]

I have delt with mechanical warranty issues for decades in a professional capacity.

Irrelevant, to be blunt. I’m a something or other in a professional capacity as well, but it doesn’t get the OP the help he perhaps needs.

Got any tips on how the guy can get to a truthful and fair settlement around his frame cracks or are you just going to jump behind Amflow because it’s your new ride? Let’s hope your frame holds up.

 

[Winford]

Of course it matters

Factually it does not.

Warranty denied. End of story.

after Jam changed forks, and admitted to a loose headset, cracks developed. Case closed right there. Period.

Factually it does not matter how or why the cracks developed because the loose headset "could have" caused them.

enjoy your day

 

[Winford]

Got any tips

Do not ride your bike with loose bearings and a stem cap.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

Even worse then, an integrated headset where the bearing isn’t supported 360 degrees is asking for trouble. See the other headset pics with random carbon layup.

Not that I want to get in the middle of your love fest with Winford but yes, the only 2 pictures I've ever seen of their headtube show terrible QC and can certainly cause the issue, but AMflow has an out because the OP messed with it prior to contacting Amflow. Whoever did the fork swap should have stopped as soon as they saw that terrible craftsmanship and reached out to Amflow.

If I had their bike I'd take a look at my cups today and if they looked like the 2 I've seen I'd ask for a replacement or acknowledgement from Amflow to support any warranty claim in the future.

This is what you get from a first time seller. Even if they used an existing manufacturer they're accepting flawed frames. If there's any part that should have perfect tolerances it's an integrated headset.

 

[Fangs2k]

Not that I want to get in the middle of your love fest with Winford but yes, the only 2 pictures I've ever seen of their headtube show terrible QC and can certainly cause the issue, but AMflow has an out because the OP messed with it prior to contacting Amflow. Whoever did the fork swap should have stopped as soon as they saw that terrible craftsmanship and reached out to Amflow.

If I had their bike I'd take a look at my cups today and if they looked like the 2 I've seen I'd ask for a replacement or acknowledgement from Amflow to support any warranty claim in the future.

This is what you get from a first time seller. Even if they used an existing manufacturer they're accepting flawed frames. If there's any part that should have perfect tolerances it's an integrated headset.

You make some good points, it’s probably what I’d do as well.

Mind you, the geography here as I understand it is maybe an issue, Chinese seller and the owner now residing in Russia, but here in the UK it’s not routine for warranties to be denied for changes you’ve made to your bike, unless it can be reasonably proven that those changes caused the issue and they were out of spec.

Fortunately, I’ve never had a frame fail, some forks yes (albeit only in a minor way) but I’m just a mountain biker who is seeing the pain of another mountain biker with a broken frame and seemingly nowhere to go with it.

Given the geography, I’d probably get it professionally repaired, and if that isn’t possible sell the motor and battery etc and run as far away as possible from opening myself up to another similar experience.

 

[Winford]

terrible QC

Just curious how you can tell quality control from abuse?

And Jam has admitted to said abuse.

This frame was factually abused so bad, the stem cap was dented. I see chips in the CF that would be alarming if no work had been done to said bike. It looks like someone used a screwdriver to pry the bearing race out. Probably not the case, because it also looks like a hammer was used to reseat the race.

Now we have stated from the beginning the crack need to be investigated further, it could be paint and filler, and or CF. None of us know and at this point it does not matter.

This is what you get from a first time seller.

Not true. Nor is there any information you can use as a source to substantiate that claim. Many name brands have factory flaws in their frames. Frames of all builders have failed. And factually it has not been determined that this frame has any flaws.

But this frame factually has been abused.

 

[Winford]

, I’d probably get it professionally repaired

Diagnosed first, then determine it repair is even possible.

You failed to read the thread. Jam stated all noise went away after he fixed the backlash in the headset bearings. He has been riding the bike as it is, with no issue, despite him being heavier than the bike recommends. The possibility of paint and filler cracking is pretty high. I would diagnose before riding, but that is just me.

 

[irie]

Diagnosed first, then determine it repair is even possible.

You failed to read the thread. Jam stated all noise went away after he fixed the backlash in the headset bearings. He has been riding the bike as it is, with no issue, despite him being heavier than the bike recommends. The possibility of paint and filler cracking is pretty high. I would diagnose before riding, but that is just me.

The fact that @Tooks reached a different conclusion to you does not therefore mean that he has "failed to read the thread". ffs.

 

[jam56]

Bought the bike - replaced the fork - cracks appeared - backlash appeared.
And not the other way around.
Those who are trying to prove my guilt, what's in it for you?
I very much doubt your experience as a bike mechanic if you claim that the bearings are pressed on the amflow frame. That only shows that you have never disassembled an amflow.
The bearings are simply inserted and just as easily removed by hand, without the need for pullers.

 

[Winford]

ffs.

I get it, you do not like me lol

 

[Plummet]

This thread is a perfect example of what bike shops call a "JRA".

I was "Just Riding Along" and the bike bike broke.....

Then we discover op has upsized forks, has been running the headset loose, something has occured with the knock block that's unexplained and he's over the maximum weight design limit of the bike.

Yet he still expects a warrantee.

I say Amflow called it correctly. Its guys like these, expecting warrantee's when the don't deserve one that ruin it for the rest of us honest types that might have real warrantee claim.

 

[Winford]

if you claim that the bearings are pressed on the amflow frame.

My friend, you have to be able to comprehend Jam, I never claimed that. I said quite clearly I do not know. And I said it does not matter.

I very much doubt

No one cares.

The bearings are simply inserted

Does not help you in any way

only shows that you have never disassembled an amflow.

Never took a part a BMW motor, does not mean I cannot build, repair or modify one. lol A good mechanic can work on any vehicle.

Those who are trying to prove my guilt

You were guilty to start. lol By your own words, ""denied"" You proved guilt really well without any of our help. All that matters is whether warranty is denied or approved. You came in to smear Amflow because you were denied. And it became obvious your negligence is why Amflow denied your claim. But, we only figured this out after you admitted you changed forks and backlash happened afterwards. Does not matter of cracks happened before or after backlash.

Your honestly comes into question, because you did not tell anyone about the backlash in your OP. We had to drag that out of you. And that is some serious hiding of details on your part. It does not make you look good. And a few people that dislike me chiming in, wont help you with a bogus claim against Amflow

 

[Winford]

has been running the headset loose

and kept these details hidden, only after us fishing for important details did this surface.

 

[jam56]

I told amflow support about the fork replacement right away. They themselves wrote that a fork with 170mm travel is allowed.
My complaint with amflow is that they pointed out some damage in the bearing area that is not damage. These marks are there even on a new bike and I was surprised that their engineers don't know about it.
Don't get hung up on the backlash, it's not a problem or cause after replacing the fork.
You see what you want to see, not what I write about.

 

[RustyMTB]

a few people that dislike me

Strange how that follows you around so doggedly. Main character syndrome is a curse.

 

[Winford]

Don't get hung up on the backlash

 

[Winford]

doggedly

That could be debated lol

Your dogpile warms me though

 

[Winford]

I told amflow

Who told you no!

And said it looks like backlash LOL and they got it right! and you came in here to vent your frustration.

How is that working out for you?

 

[Winford]

These marks are there even on a new bike

That remains unsubstantiated. Had you started this thread with pictures of yours and pictures of another bike with similar marks would have been a better way to start your thread.

Instead of saying, Amflow said It looks like backlash and denied me! and It did have backlash!

 

[Moderator]

Enough already!

 

[Moderator]

OK Guys.

Unlocking the thread so @jam56 can update when there is a relevant update.

I think we've had everyone's views, Ad Infinitum, except the suggestion of Extra Terrestrial involvement - I'm a bit sad that hasn't been suggested.

Please don't post unless you are Jam56 or actually have something useful to add. Anyone heading back down the same lunacy rabbit hole will be permanently banned from the thread.

Thanks !

 

[jam56]

Hey guys!

My communication with support was long and fruitless.
First, I spoke with support, then I was transferred to customer service.
But the result is the same: it's my own fault that cracks appeared on my frame.

No matter what I write or suggest to them, they insist that their engineers are 100% certain that these marks on the frame are the result of replacing the fork!

I sent photos of five more bikes with exactly the same marks to customer support, but they didn't care. They found a reason to deny the warranty and couldn't care less about the customer.

Conclusion: if something happens to your bike, don't tell the whole truth to support! They will find any reason, even the most absurd one, to deny you the warranty. The number of defects is so small that it will not damage their reputation on the large global market.

I continue to ride my bike, these two cracks haven't affected anything. In winter, I'll take the bike apart and give the frame to a carbon specialist to have it inspected and the cracks repaired.

Below, I will attach photos of other bicycles that my friends sent me, which have exactly the same marks on both the top and bottom.

 

[volts]

Too bad man. I hope you get it sorted with a repair. Thanks for updating us.

 

[Plummet]

It could be the overzealous use of one of these headset removal tools if there's been a headset replacement at some point in the life of the frame. Looks curiously similar.....

 

[Fangs2k]

It could be the overzealous use of one of these headset removal tools if there's been a headset replacement at some point in the life of the frame. Looks curiously similar.....

View attachment 166192

The races are carbon and molded as part of the frame, the tool above would just damage them from the other side, and anybody trying to use that tool to remove moulded races needs to be re-trained…

The other pics show similar marks to the OPs frame, probably tooling or mould marks from frame construction.

@jam56 , sucks but you tried. Plan B sounds reasonable, enjoy the bike and then get it repaired/tidied up after the riding season is over.

 

[Plummet]

The races are carbon and molded as part of the frame, the tool above would just damage them from the other side, and anybody trying to use that tool to remove moulded races needs to be re-trained…

The other pics show similar marks to the OPs frame, probably tooling or mould marks from frame construction.

@jam56 , sucks but you tried. Plan B sounds reasonable, enjoy the bike and then get it repaired/tidied up after the riding season is over.

If some yuts just put the tool in and hammered without looking that is exactly what those marks would look like........
There are stupid people in the world that blindly do this sort of thing.....

Lets also note that op is overweight for the design and therefore voids any warrantee of this bike and should be denied warrantee on that fact alone. Yet he persists on trying to get a warrantee even though he is outside the design parameters of the manufacture. He then upsizes the fork to a longer travel burlier fork that places more stress on the head tube further increasing the possibility of failure.

I am on the side of Amflow with this one. Warrantee denied. Bike used outside its published design parameters.

 

[Worten]

It could be the overzealous use of one of these headset removal tools if there's been a headset replacement at some point in the life of the frame. Looks curiously similar.....

View attachment 166192

He sent photos of five different bikes with the same tracks. Do you think they got together, took the tool you sent, and started mutilating their bikes?

 

[ZR1]

Have they said how much they want for a replacement frame?

Does it really cost them that much money to have a more generous approach to warranties and crash replacements.