Crestline x DJI - RS 181 SPECTRE Edition

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Exciting shit.

Whose going to be the first to spark up a bosch 100nm and dji comparison. I really want to see a technical hillclimb off. Does the extra grunt of the dji out climb the sveltness of the bosch emtb+ 100nm when it gets real tech?
 
Plummet said:
Exciting shit.

Whose going to be the first to spark up a bosch 100nm and dji comparison. I really want to see a technical hillclimb off. Does the extra grunt of the dji out climb the sveltness of the bosch emtb+ 100nm when it gets real tech?
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I for one am loving the 100 nm on the Bosch. The amount of power feels just about perfect and even when you light pedal, gives a lot more support than before. My biggest complaint with Gen 5 Bosch was if you put in little effort, it gives you very little support. Now it gives you good support. Also love how quiet it is climbing and dead silent descending.
The DJI had better blow my mind, the Bosch is really really good!!!
 
John_likes_bikes said:
Any have an RH2 in hand and can comment on seatpost insertion depth?
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Here’s a RH2 with a 175mm AXS slammed all the way
IMG_8652.jpeg
 
Suns_PSD said:
...
The nature of these gear cluster transmissions is that they suck up precious watts, and there is no getting around that. It's just the nature of turning entire gear clusters in oil. Admittedly less critical in an e-bike application. Now we are quickly getting to the age of auto shifting derailleur systems, and this will be the next frontier.

I will acknowledge that about 8 months ago I rode a New Zealand brand of Pinion bike (Zerode?) and although the bike was not even remotely set up for me, it was positively crazy how well that rear suspension worked. Like WAY above anything I had ever felt before. I don't believe that difference was strictly the small reduction in unsprung mass (compared to the weight of the wheel/ tire/ brake/ chainstay) but instead had to be the lack of Pedal-kickback.
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Have a complex dense clusters of spur or planetary gears in an oil bath or fully greased, will always add a degree of efficiency loss compared to derailleurs. Unless the current approach of MGU design is approached in a totally different way with hybrid transmission, which does away with the steampunk madness inside gearboxes and opens up the possibility of much lighter MGUs. I've elaborated this on the Hybrid Transmission MGU thread and welcome forum input there.
Rob Rides EMTB said:
The Nicolai Pinion bike is the same, crazy good suspension feel, bottomless sensation even though only 160mm travel. Hugely noticable. That, and no noise. Makes a big difference.
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Basically the reason why downhillers are moving to gearboxes with belt drive - it totally unlocks the suspension and is probably why the sensation is closest to riding without a chain at all. For us EMTB folks, the only real solution is MGU to create the same dynamics.
MTB_MIKE said:
Some of you guys stress, how much better the bike feels with a lighter smaller battery. That is because the force it requires to pick up the front wheel is less with a lighter battery. As you guys know, the pivot point when you pick up the front wheel of a bike is the bottom contact patch of the rear tire.
With a derailer system, the extra pound or so is located right above the pivot point. With a MGU system, that weight (4 extra pounds ) is moved forward by almost 2ft.

Assuming the wheelbase is about 4ft for simple math, the torque will feel equivalent to adding 2lbs to your front wheel (Torque = Force X Distance)

This makes trying to pick up the front wheel of an already heavy bike that much harder to do.
Like with every system, there are benefits, and there are drawbacks including the appearance of a very bulbous bottom bracket when motor companies are working on sleeker options.
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One could say the same thing with any mid-drive EMTBS in general (compared to MTBS). People with 50+lb EMTBS do enjoy the plowing with all that sprung mass under them. Of course as full power motors and batteries get lighter, it opens up more nimble possibilities, like with the Crestline. DJI, and now Maxon are getting us closer there.

Suns_PSD said:
But the thing is that removing 400 grams of weight shouldn't do all of that. I mean swapping from a 950 gram to 1350 gram tire doesn't do that, a lightweight or heavier rim doesn't do that either. You can tell sure, but it's not like an entirely different world of suspension performance is unlocked.

It's also worth noting that some describe something similar when going to a High-Pivot bike, at least on some models.

So that means the massive change in suspension performance on Pinion bikes is likely caused by one of 2 things (or possibly in combination):
1) the missing pedal kickback is the culprit,
2) the lack of chain whip is the culprit.

It's not due to the sprung to unsprung ratio being higher. If it were the Zerode I rode would not have been so plush, and all e-bikes would be plush.

So, the question then becomes: Can you gain that bottomless feel on any derailleur equipped bike utilizing some of the anti-Pedal-Kick back tech that is now commonly available? Then you don't have to ride an inefficient 60# loud Pinion equipped behemoth?

Unfortunately, I don't have personal riding experience with HP bikes nor Anti-PK technology. The only thing I can offer is a riding buddy added the Sidekick to his Crestline Gen4 Bosch and said that he could barely even tell, and I couldn't borrow his wheel because it's a 29er and I need a 27.5 for my bike.
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I've found myself having to change my rear shock damping when moving from heavy to lighter tires or vice-versa (where the extreme case is moving to a Rohloff IGH affecting this ratio that I had to revalve the shock). If you ask a downhiller, it's more about adding weight to sprung mass rather than removing it from the unsprung mass, but I'm with you in that's it's not the whole picture. Of the 2 you mentioned, the main culprit likely is chain whip or just the freaking chain altogether. Moving to a belt will get you all the way there, but with first-iteration MGU's as ungainly as they are, attacking from the pedal kickback side would be the next best solution.

BTW, both Suns_PSD and I have been bouncing around these ideas in the Pedal Kickback Tech Thread and would welcome further comment on that thread rather then entertaining this off-topic discourse here.
 
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Gearbox bikes haven't won't a world cup yet. I they were that much better they would be dominating. ....

Maybe better suspension worse pedalling efficiency evens out total speed?
 
Suns_PSD said:
On this weight distribution topic in general, I've been thinking about the best chainstay length to start with on the Spectre RH3. The best handling bike I ever rode had a 452mm CS length. But importantly, it didn't have a DH front tire, a Podium fork & and an 800w battery (not to mention a motor) all weighting down the front end of the thing.

So, I'm left wondering if all of that weight added up front allows me to shorten the CS length while still getting that desired insane front wheel grip?
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My RS181 is a RH-4 (505 reach) MX, with 440mm CS drop outs(shorter than recommended on the website) and a 190mm ZEB
My Anakin V2 is a XL (500 reach) MX with about a 430mm CS (no forward battery weight), and a 190mm ZEB.
Every one is different and likes what works for them. I’m 6’-2”, prefer 500mm reach. I’ll move the saddle forward a bit on the RS181 to get my 500mm reach. And still have the option of a WORKS -5mm reach adjust if I want my saddle moved back closer to center.
 
MTB_MIKE said:
Here’s a RH2 with a 175mm AXS slammed all the wayView attachment 164785
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Thanks, yeah I saw that post on FB and asked him. My current frame seat post is 25mm longer than the listed 181. On that I can slam a A1 170mm reverb. I'm thinking I might be able to do that and get the same overall seat height. I asked this guy the measurement from the bottom of the seat post collar to the crank spindle, that'll tell me for sure. We'll see, or I wait until I get mine.
 
AlumiPro said:
My RS181 is a RH-4 (505 reach) MX, with 440mm CS drop outs(shorter than recommended on the website) and a 190mm ZEB
My Anakin V2 is a XL (500 reach) MX with about a 430mm CS (no forward battery weight), and a 190mm ZEB.
Every one is different and likes what works for them. I’m 6’-2”, prefer 500mm reach. I’ll move the saddle forward a bit on the RS181 to get my 500mm reach. And still have the option of a WORKS -5mm reach adjust if I want my saddle moved back closer to center.
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I'm going to run an RH4 mullet with 440mm drop outs. Looks like 440mm is actually the lower limit (and within) recommendation for size RH4, per the website.
1753194748084.png
 
I''m going to run my RH2 as a full 29er, with a 450mm CS. My current bike has +8mm rear but about the same wheel base bc it's has a steeper HT. My Crestline should be balanced and roll fast. I can't get away from a 29" rear and to have 180mm travel on a full emtb, it's the holy grail for me.
 
For those with transmission, SRAM updated the chain length setup guide. Not noted is what other Crestline owners have talked about, do you set up the derailleur at sag?!?!?
Screenshot 2025-07-22 at 6.47.01 PM.png
 
GeorgesEBike,
Are you going to set it up with the VPN mod? (NZ speed limit)
If you are, and are up for sharing the process with me please PM me.
 
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freeriding said:
Lovely bike!!! Design, silhouette, color!!!
Ohhh, and that electronic braking, no hoses :LOL:
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Everyone talking gear boxes and I'm dreaming for wireless brakes. Would love to have no cables on the bike. Maven Ultmates are being installed today.
 
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John_likes_bikes said:
For those with transmission, SRAM updated the chain length setup guide. Not noted is what other Crestline owners have talked about, do you set up the derailleur at sag?!?!?
View attachment 164841
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My bosch gen 5 RH2 had to be set at sag and was 2 more links than what the app had suggested (122 vs 120 links). I know other folks who did not have to set their transmission at sag and were 120 links.
 
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