Hell yeah!
Oh, I mean hell no!
MGU is just another solution looking for a problem IMHO, more weight, complexity and expense too.
Crestline x DJI - RS 181 SPECTRE Edition
- Thread starter Rob Rides EMTB
- Start date
Hell yeah!
Oh, I mean hell no!
MGU is just another solution looking for a problem IMHO, more weight, complexity and expense too.
slickrock
Well-known member
An intriguing possibility and within reach, whereas A refined hybrid transmission MGU is still a ways off. The Maxon is creating a stir with an even more miniaturized high-efficiency full-power motor (that is circa 2024 pre-DJI idea of full-power). Leo will most likely use the Maxon if he can transmogrify his bike company in time.
John_likes_bikes
Well-known member
The real burning question is who's getting frame number 69/99?!?!?
AlumiPro
Well-known member
I was surprised to see GeorgesEBike frame is number 93…..how does this frame numbering work
My previous 2023 Copper Crestline wasn’t numbered at all.
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EmtbFanatic
Member
Based on my previous crestline bikes it’s just luck of the drawI was surprised to see GeorgesEBike frame is number 93…..how does this frame numbering work
My previous 2023 Cooper Crestline wasn’t numbered at all.
AlumiPro
Well-known member
GeorgesEBike,
I see your new AXS dropper is slammed in the frame. What size frame and what length dropper?
I see your new AXS dropper is slammed in the frame. What size frame and what length dropper?
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
there is nothing more complicated than a derailleur system. there is always a gear not working right, they bend easily, sticks can get stuck in them, they increase unsprung mass and you need to look for lines that are derailleur friendly. i can’t wait to get rid of them. was the pinion mgu a good entry? no. will there be better systems in the future? most probably.Hell yeah!
Oh, I mean hell no!
MGU is just another solution looking for a problem IMHO, more weight, complexity and expense too.
This one might have gotten lost in translation as derailleur transmissions aren't even complicated, at all. Maybe finicky, or damage prone is a better description?
Anyways, I've had very good luck with derailleur systems in very technical terrain. Although I do wish they were better optimized for e-bike usage (10 speed steel cassette 10-46 should do it wired to the motor). In fact the few Pinion transmissions I've known about personally have actually, had several failures included punctured cases and broken cranks.
The nature of these gear cluster transmissions is that they suck up precious watts, and there is no getting around that. It's just the nature of turning entire gear clusters in oil. Admittedly less critical in an e-bike application. Now we are quickly getting to the age of auto shifting derailleur systems, and this will be the next frontier.
I will acknowledge that about 8 months ago I rode a New Zealand brand of Pinion bike (Zerode?) and although the bike was not even remotely set up for me, it was positively crazy how well that rear suspension worked. Like WAY above anything I had ever felt before. I don't believe that difference was strictly the small reduction in unsprung mass (compared to the weight of the wheel/ tire/ brake/ chainstay) but instead had to be the lack of Pedal-kickback.
My next bike build is going to be E13 Kickback hubs combined with Enve M8 rims, Podium fork combined with my Avy Bomber coil shock, on a DJI Crestline. I think it'll float like nothing I've ever had before. Now I just need that next btch of frames Troyden!
Hey, I wasn’t saying derailleurs are perfect, far from it, but they’re cheap (unless you go for the stupidly priced ones), work well (I don’t have any issues with my Eagle drivetrains) and are lightweight in comparison to any MGU yet made.
Maybe I'm lucky in that I haven’t wrecked a mech in a few years, and round here it’s mud and twig central for a large part of the year. Maybe I don’t test them though, I’m a trail rider mostly with the odd bike park day thrown in.
Of course I watch developments like everybody else, and I’m sure it’ll be the next thing that everybody must have in order to improve their riding by 3.62% or whatever…
- Thread starter
- #760
The Nicolai Pinion bike is the same, crazy good suspension feel, bottomless sensation even though only 160mm travel. Hugely noticable. That, and no noise. Makes a big difference.
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
less unsprung mass and more line choice is still a major plus in my opinion. i‘ve just experienced the former when switching from a RSU fork to my Intend Flash, works so much better. we talking about half a kg less here with a mgu, that‘s A LOT of unsprung mass goneHey, I wasn’t saying derailleurs are perfect, far from it, but they’re cheap (unless you go for the stupidly priced ones), work well (I don’t have any issues with my Eagle drivetrains) and are lightweight in comparison to any MGU yet made.
Maybe I'm lucky in that I haven’t wrecked a mech in a few years, and round here it’s mud and twig central for a large part of the year. Maybe I don’t test them though, I’m a trail rider mostly with the odd bike park day thrown in.
Of course I watch developments like everybody else, and I’m sure it’ll be the next thing that everybody must have in order to improve their riding by 3.62% or whatever…
But the thing is that removing 400 grams of weight shouldn't do all of that. I mean swapping from a 950 gram to 1350 gram tire doesn't do that, a lightweight or heavier rim doesn't do that either. You can tell sure, but it's not like an entirely different world of suspension performance is unlocked.
It's also worth noting that some describe something similar when going to a High-Pivot bike, at least on some models.
So that means the massive change in suspension performance on Pinion bikes is likely caused by one of 2 things (or possibly in combination):
1) the missing pedal kickback is the culprit,
2) the lack of chain whip is the culprit.
It's not due to the sprung to unsprung ratio being higher. If it were the Zerode I rode would not have been so plush, and all e-bikes would be plush.
So, the question then becomes: Can you gain that bottomless feel on any derailleur equipped bike utilizing some of the anti-Pedal-Kick back tech that is now commonly available? Then you don't have to ride an inefficient 60# loud Pinion equipped behemoth?
Unfortunately, I don't have personal riding experience with HP bikes nor Anti-PK technology. The only thing I can offer is a riding buddy added the Sidekick to his Crestline Gen4 Bosch and said that he could barely even tell, and I couldn't borrow his wheel because it's a 29er and I need a 27.5 for my bike.
MTB_MIKE
Active member
Some of you guys stress, how much better the bike feels with a lighter smaller battery. That is because the force it requires to pick up the front wheel is less with a lighter battery. As you guys know, the pivot point when you pick up the front wheel of a bike is the bottom contact patch of the rear tire.
With a derailer system, the extra pound or so is located right above the pivot point. With a MGU system, that weight (4 extra pounds ) is moved forward by almost 2ft.
Assuming the wheelbase is about 4ft for simple math, the torque will feel equivalent to adding 2lbs to your front wheel (Torque = Force X Distance)
This makes trying to pick up the front wheel of an already heavy bike that much harder to do.
Like with every system, there are benefits, and there are drawbacks including the appearance of a very bulbous bottom bracket when motor companies are working on sleeker options.
With a derailer system, the extra pound or so is located right above the pivot point. With a MGU system, that weight (4 extra pounds ) is moved forward by almost 2ft.
Assuming the wheelbase is about 4ft for simple math, the torque will feel equivalent to adding 2lbs to your front wheel (Torque = Force X Distance)
This makes trying to pick up the front wheel of an already heavy bike that much harder to do.
Like with every system, there are benefits, and there are drawbacks including the appearance of a very bulbous bottom bracket when motor companies are working on sleeker options.
GeorgesEBike
E*POWAH Master
Frame is RH-3 and dropper is AXS 175mm. The stack height seems a little higher than the older version AXS droppers because of the battery location.
AlumiPro
Well-known member
Unfortunately not many people have experienced riding a high pivot output shaft belt drive system with no tensioner and no kick back. Once you do, it kinda ruins riding other bikes. The rear suspension works so well, especially paired with a coil Telum
John_likes_bikes
Well-known member
I preach the gospel of ochain/kickback to anyone that will listen. Totally changes the bike.
AlumiPro
Well-known member
Troydon told me I can slam the new AXS 200mm dropper in the RH-4 frame, I’m hoping that is correct
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On this weight distribution topic in general, I've been thinking about the best chainstay length to start with on the Spectre RH3. The best handling bike I ever rode had a 452mm CS length. But importantly, it didn't have a DH front tire, a Podium fork & and an 800w battery (not to mention a motor) all weighting down the front end of the thing.
So, I'm left wondering if all of that weight added up front allows me to shorten the CS length while still getting that desired insane front wheel grip?
Posvar1
Member
Yes, you can but it’s actually the new AXS 225 dropper than can be slammed in the RH4.Troydon told me I can slam the new AXS 210 dropper in the RH-4 frame, I’m hoping that is correct
The pivot point when lifting the front wheel off the ground is actually the rear axle, the rear tyre contact patch is where the force is applied.
The derailleur is therefore at the pivot point or just below it.
I don’t think it changes the point about an MGU having to be rotated around the pivot point though, but it may also be a benefit in terms of weight distribution and CofG, so like most things it’s swings and roundabouts.
westcoastmtbr
Active member
What is everyone thinking in terms of brakes on this bike? Does anyone care to comment whether the new XTR brakes are up to the task? I simply have had so much luck with Shimano brakes but only up to the original Orbea Rise and a host of pedal bikes. No issues, no extra maintenance, nothing but solid braking power, pad replacement, and rotors hold up well. Comments.
If you like Shimano (on/off, little modulation), I’d go Saints. Step up in power would be Saints with XTR levers (nicer feel).
If you’re really picky about feel and power, Magura calipers w/ Saint or XTR levers.
There is an article floating around where someone tested braking power. Shigura’s are on top (this is before the new Magura Gustav’s came out).
westcoastmtbr
Active member
I am referring to the new XTR brakes. Wondering if Rob has any opinion?
AlumiPro
Well-known member
My mistake on the 210. I ordered the new 200mm AXS from Crestline.
I’ll have an Aenomaly switch grade going on top which adds some height, why I didn’t go with the 225mm. And I find I’m able to be in a more lower attach position on an emtb.
I’m not sure what I like more, the bike or the garage/workshop!
It’s a serious looking piece of kit even unbuilt. I wish there was a Crestline dealer here in the UK. It would be far too much bike for me and my riding, but I’d just sit and look at it if necessary!
I could have the Crestline on one wall of my lounge, and the Unno Mith on the other!
The new XTRs are way better than the current Saints, the new Saints haven’t been released yet even though there’s a few teams running them on their DH bikes. Jackson Goldstone is running the new XTRs, they seem to be working really good for him.
westcoastmtbr
Active member
The Saints have always been an upgrade from the current XT's but just a slight one. I'm thinking the new XT will be a perfect fit and will be a good improvement over old gen Saints. I just really like the Shimano no fuss system and lack of squeal.
sethimus
😠 Donald Duck 😠
he asked about the current generation, not the last. the rest of your information is also pretty dated...
Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment
best source to get information on recent (boutique) brakes from riders who rode them, there's even one user in there who bought them all. literally all of them.
bakedbun
Active member
I was just at the bike park yesterday on my meat bike with the new new XT brakes and they're great. Power was consistent with the metallic pads installed and the infamous "wandering bite point" has been reduced or pretty much gone. There were a few moments where I thought the lever throw felt longer after a rough section but maybe it was hand pump or fatigue. I was riding as much as I could from 9am to 4pm trying to find a fault but couldn't. However I am a lightweight at 145lbs. No pad rattle, no squeal, no turkey noises no nothing they just worked. My ebike has V4 Tech 4 installed and yeah the XT can't touch the power or lever feel/modulation of the hopes but my hopes squeal all the way to the bottom!
westcoastmtbr
Active member
I know, the squeal is just so annoying. Think it's worth the try on the new XT's! Thanks for sharing.
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