Will the torque/power of the Bosch Gen 5 increase this year with a software update?

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So I guess Bosch update for Gen 5 will be 100nm 750w peak power

not quite the current DJI (there are rumors it will be castrated) but a noticeable improvement!
 
To the people in this thread freaking out about bosch doing a firmware upgrade to 105nm.

These motors are so damn over engineered its not funny. They are just ticking along. The safety factor is massive. My guess 4 to 1.

Personally I don't need the upgrade. standard gen5 boost is more that i need for 90% of my riding i'm coozing around in emtb and detuned 70nm tour+.

Will I use a 105nm setting. Yeah probably for shits an giggles and random step sections i can't clear on the standard settings. Then i'll be back to emtb/tourplus settings for the majority of my riding.
 
Sure, a bit more power can be fun sometimes, but 750W and 100 Nm is more than enough for most trails in my opinion :)
 
 

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Quote from the press release:-

"The performance upgrade for the Performance Line CX can be downloaded free of charge over-the-air to
eBikes with the current Performance Line CX (BDU384Y) after manufacturer
approval for the respective eBike model from July. Bicycle manufacturers set the
maximum values within which users can adjust their performance values."

This worries me a bit, I hope we don't end up with the situation like "Power More" i.e. where theretically any CX (BDU384Y) has the capability but a configuration change will be required that the bike manufacturer may or may provide!
 
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Joecrow said:
Quote from the press release:-

"The performance upgrade for the Performance Line CX can be downloaded free of charge over-the-air to
eBikes with the current Performance Line CX (BDU384Y) after manufacturer
approval for the respective eBike model from July. Bicycle manufacturers set the
maximum values within which users can adjust their performance values."

This worries me a bit, I hope we don't end up with the situation like "Power More" i.e. where theretically any CX (BDU384Y) has the capability but a configuration change will be required that the bike manufacturer may or may provide!
Click to expand...
With the Powermore, the issue was more complex, as it was structural: it required a specific charging connector and a chassis capable of supporting the weight.

This update, on the other hand, potentially involves two less critical issues:
  1. Increased battery consumption
  2. Higher stress on the drivetrain
Since both aspects are clearly pointed out by Bosch, I see no reason why manufacturers shouldn't go ahead with the release.

I'm still very optimistic about a large-scale rollout; let's wait and see!
 
Here it is — the new Performance Line CX-R:


And the news doesn’t stop with the CX-R… the PX is on the way too, just like I mentioned here on April 7 :whistle::censored: Performance line CX-R and PX? Bosch might be cooking up something new...

Look at this:

px.png


Probably not 85nm. I think the specs will probably be something like this: 75 Nm, max support 300%

I’d bet on a “budget” version of the CX, with lower torque and max support percentage. Basically, it’ll slot in between the SX and the CX.
 
Looks like the front part is a gearbox , Can it be the rumored Porsche MGU motor ?
 
gio_se said:
With the Powermore, the issue was more complex, as it was structural: it required a specific charging connector and a chassis capable of supporting the weight.

This update, on the other hand, potentially involves two less critical issues:
  1. Increased battery consumption
  2. Higher stress on the drivetrain
Since both aspects are clearly pointed out by Bosch, I see no reason why manufacturers shouldn't go ahead with the release.

I'm still very optimistic about a large-scale rollout; let's wait and see!
Click to expand...

I see a reason.

The bikes have been designed with a max power/torque output 600w/85nm. Up that to 750w/100nm. That applies more mechanical stress to the frame that might not have been designed and tested for.

Increasing stress and loading that is not designed for may lead to failures and warrantee claims.

Each manufacture will have to consider if they are willing to accept a lower safety factor on their design to run higher motor outputs.
 
Plummet said:
The bikes have been designed with a max power/torque output 600w/85nm. Up that to 750w/100nm. That applies more mechanical stress to the frame that might not have been designed and tested for.
Click to expand...
All those manufacturers that have recently introduced a new bike with the CX gen 5 motor and included the large top tube cutout for the coming Kiox 400C have obviously been well informed by Bosch. This will have included the coming torque/power update.
 
Plummet said:
The bikes have been designed with a max power/torque output 600w/85nm. Up that to 750w/100nm. That applies more mechanical stress to the frame that might not have been designed and tested for.
Click to expand...
I would hope the frame and drive train would have been designed with at least a 3x saftety factor, if not 5x or more! None the less I can certainly see the manufacturers sighting such reasons to avoid not supporting the retrofitting of the update but for sure including it in new bikes! I hope it is just me being negative and cynical but we will have to wait and see.:unsure::whistle:
 
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Hope my new Mondraker Level coming in June will have the new frame display 🤞😁

Does someone have the cx-r pdf ?
 
Shark58 said:
All those manufacturers that have recently introduced a new bike with the CX gen 5 motor and included the large top tube cutout for the coming Kiox 400C have obviously been well informed by Bosch. This will have included the coming torque/power update.
Click to expand...
This ☝🏻.
 
jar2b said:
Hope my new Mondraker Level coming in June will have the new frame display 🤞😁

Does someone have the cx-r pdf ?
Click to expand...
@jar2b found it 😉!

----------

Press Release
Bosch eBike Systems


More adrenaline, more power, more fun on the trails
Bosch’s Performance Line CX-R unleashes pure energy off-road – with powerful dynamics and high-tech details


Performance boost: Up to 100 Nm of torque, 750 W of power, and 400% pedal assistance to tackle the toughest riding challenges
Perfectly tuned and customizable riding modes: Exclusive Race mode and new eMTB+ mode
Maximum efficiency and durability through high-tech materials
Precision control: High-performance sensors enable fast, controlled power delivery


Stuttgart/Reutlingen – eMTB riding blends adrenaline, flow, and the constant drive to push boundaries. Every rider has unique needs: more power for steep climbs, extra thrust on technical terrain, or maximum range for long tours. The new Performance Line CX-R from Bosch eBike Systems, a pioneer in the eMTB sector, delivers the ultimate in trail riding – with extreme power, lightning-fast response, precise control, and an exclusive Race mode for peak performance. It offers up to 100 Newton meters (Nm) of torque, 750 watts (W) of power, and up to 400% pedal assistance.


At the same time, the drive unit – developed in collaboration with elite athletes – incorporates high-tech materials from aerospace and competitive sports, ensuring lightweight construction and state-of-the-art sensor technology. These sensors allow the motor to react to rider input within milliseconds, pushing performance to the limit with power and control. The Race and eMTB+ riding modes, specially designed for eMTB use, enable precise and controlled power delivery.


Claus Fleischer, CEO of Bosch eBike Systems, states:
"The new Performance Line CX-R is the most powerful drive unit in our portfolio. We made no compromises in materials, software, or sensor technology, allowing experienced riders to explore and push beyond their limits on the most demanding trails. The new eMTB+ mode brings CX-R’s power to the trails in a controlled manner. Thanks to Dynamic Control – a kind of integrated traction control – propulsion remains manageable even on challenging terrain, steep sections, and slippery surfaces."



Uncompromising support: Exclusive Race mode


On demanding terrain, it's not just about power – a sensitive balance between performance and control is crucial. Since riders have different needs, customizable riding modes are available.
For those seeking instant power delivery and maximum support, the Race mode – available exclusively with the Performance Line CX-R – provides immediate acceleration and full power assistance up to maximum speed, with up to 400% support relative to rider input.
When dynamically navigating over large rocks or complex root sections, the enhanced Extended Boost in Race mode delivers extra thrust.
This makes it the ideal choice for competitive riders and ambitious eMTBers looking to constantly challenge themselves across a variety of technical scenarios.
Users can also fine-tune Race mode parameters via the eBike Flow app to suit their preferences.



Total dynamics and control: New eMTB+ mode for the toughest trails


The dynamic and progressive eMTB+ mode marks another key innovation for physically demanding trail rides.
Bridging the gap between eMTB and Race modes, it offers Race-level power with enhanced control.
Based on rider input, eMTB+ provides controlled assistance up to 400%, delivering natural and agile power output. Thanks to Dynamic Control, power delivery is always precise and adaptable.
eMTB+ intelligently switches – depending on the situation – between Dynamic Control and traditional direct response.
Like in Race mode, eMTB+ settings can be customized through the eBike Flow app to perfectly align with rider needs.


Ambitious MTB riders now have access to four optimized dynamic modes – Tour+, eMTB, eMTB+, and Race – all customizable in terms of power (W, Nm), dynamics, and responsiveness.



Premium materials: Lightweight build and dynamic riding experience


On steep trails, root-covered sprints, or rugged terrain, the Performance Line CX-R is engineered for peak performance and durability in all conditions.
The powder-coated magnesium housing in "space grey" boosts resilience, while the corrosion-resistant titanium crank axle and high-quality ceramic ball bearings reduce weight to just 6 pounds (approx. 2.7 kg) and ensure even smoother operation.
At the same time, the CX-R is built to last thanks to its high-grade construction and powerful electronics.
During descents, decoupling between external (chain, chainring, cassette) and internal drive systems (freewheel, gears, motor) reduces mechanical noise, allowing riders to fully focus on the trail and their surroundings.



High-end sensor technology: Power exactly when needed


To ensure the Performance Line CX-R delivers power precisely when required, its sensor technology measures pedal input up to 1,000 times per second.
Sensors include high-precision torque measurement, a high-resolution cadence sensor, and inertial measurement units (IMU) that detect acceleration and rotational speed across six axes, capturing gradients, inclines, and vibrations.
On the trail, this translates into maximum power – precisely controlled and available exactly when needed – whether it’s for a powerful sprint out of a corner, a calibrated start on slippery ground, or a steep, technical climb.


The first electric mountain bikes featuring the new Performance Line CX-R will be available at retailers starting autumn 2025.

----------
 
Shark58 said:
All those manufacturers that have recently introduced a new bike with the CX gen 5 motor and included the large top tube cutout for the coming Kiox 400C have obviously been well informed by Bosch. This will have included the coming torque/power update.
Click to expand...
One would hope it to be so. But bikes released for 2025 have been designed in late 2023 early 2024. Did bosch know about this potential power increase in gen5 back then and communicate with its customers to design bikes accordingly? We will never no.
 
Joecrow said:
I would hope the frame and drive train would have been designed with at least a 3x saftety factor, if not 5x or more! None the less I can certainly see the manufacturers sighting such reasons to avoid not supporting the retrofitting of the update but for sure including it in new bikes! I hope it is just me being negative and cynical but we will have to wait and see.:unsure::whistle:
Click to expand...

Yes they will be operating X safety factor and this update will reduce that safety factor a portion. Will it still be withing acceptable limits of what the company has set as a design standard?

At the very least it introduces additional risk for the manufacturer and potentially additional warrantee claims.

I see both sides of the arguement. Additional power will potentially lead to additional sales, but with the cost of potentially greater warrantee claims.

If a manufacturer has made and sold all their frames to re-sellers/customers for the year, what advantage is it for them to take on the additional risk? Eg Crestline i think are done and dusted for 2025. They will now be working on 2026 offering.
 
Plummet said:
Yes they will be operating X safety factor and this update will reduce that safety factor a portion. Will it still be withing acceptable limits of what the company has set as a design standard?

At the very least it introduces additional risk for the manufacturer and potentially additional warrantee claims.

I see both sides of the arguement. Additional power will potentially lead to additional sales, but with the cost of potentially greater warrantee claims.

If a manufacturer has made and sold all their frames to re-sellers/customers for the year, what advantage is it for them to take on the additional risk? Eg Crestline i think are done and dusted for 2025. They will now be working on 2026 offering.
Click to expand...

Ask yourself this: do you really think manufacturers REDESIGN newly (2024) released frames designed to spec for the CX5 just to make sure they can 'handle' the new little power upgrade... from the SAME motor? We're not talking about a 100–200% increase, but around 10%. I'd bet all current frames have more than enough margin built in 😉
 
I'm a bit confused, so only the upcoming race motor will benefit from the power update? I find this lame if it's like that.
 
Bogdan_CH said:
I'm a bit confused, so only the upcoming race motor will benefit from the power update? I find this lame if it's like that.
Click to expand...
Don't worry: the CX-R will come out of the factory with 100Nm/750W, while the CX5 will be updated to 100Nm/750W from the current 85Nm/600W, presumably at the beginning of July.
 
gio_se said:
Ask yourself this: do you really think manufacturers REDESIGN newly (2024) released frames designed to spec for the CX5 just to make sure they can 'handle' the new little power upgrade... from the SAME motor? We're not talking about a 100–200% increase, but around 10%. I'd bet all current frames have more than enough margin built in 😉
Click to expand...
10% is still an increased stress that may not have been designed or tested for. It adds an additional risk to the manufacturer of potential failure and warrantee claims.

Some manufacturers may want to perform testing prior to approving the power upgrade.
Some manufacturers may simply not want to take the additional risk on.

Lets wait and see.... And also hope that bosch communicated its intentions well enough in advance for manufactures to include the new upgraded power outputs into 2025 frame designs.
 
Plummet said:
10% is still an increased stress that may not have been designed or tested for. It adds an additional risk to the manufacturer of potential failure and warrantee claims.

Some manufacturers may want to perform testing prior to approving the power upgrade.
Some manufacturers may simply not want to take the additional risk on.

Lets wait and see.... And also hope that bosch communicated its intentions well enough in advance for manufactures to include the new upgraded power outputs into 2025 frame designs.
Click to expand...
Believe me: the bike manufacturers had known about Bosch's plans for WAAAY longer than you think 😄!
 
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