Vitus E-Sommet VR

[Gary]

Remember what I did? I've never had any mud in there and been on quite a few muddy rides.View attachment 10566

Considering how muddy my shocks can and reservoir get in proper mud that wouldn't keep everything out.
My solution should hopefully allow any mud that gets past to clear to the back and out over the main pivot/shock mount rather than collect in the wiring.

I'm also to vain to gaiter that much of the bike.

 

[Nifty 56]

So is this a good idea to prevent shit getting in then..?

As I say above, it does work and so will all the others shown. Mine was a quickie but I've left it as it worked but going to make a better one. I am also going to silicon the hole where the mud gets in.

As I've said before, this is a bad design and it looks like Vitus haven't fixed it on the 2019 model. They obviously haven't tested these in muddy conditions. Maybe that's why they're so cheap?

 

[Polaris]

As I say above, it does work and so will all the others shown. Mine was a quickie but I've left it as it worked but going to make a better one. I am also going to silicon the hole where the mud gets in.

As I've said before, this is a bad design and it looks like Vitus haven't fixed it on the 2019 model. They obviously haven't tested these in muddy conditions. Maybe that's why they're so cheap?

Stuff a couple of XL smart price sanitary towels behind the guard for maximum soakage and you’ve nailed it, it will run forever

 

[Gary]

As I've said before, this is a bad design and it looks like Vitus haven't fixed it on the 2019 model. They obviously haven't tested these in muddy conditions. Maybe that's why they're so cheap?

massive over reaction really.
the casing only really fills if you over exuberently clean from above where the wiring sits.

the Vitus team are based in Ireland. Of course they've tested them in mud.

 

[R120]

I have been riding both my Vitus's in the worst the British weather can throw at them, and I have had no issue with anything getting in to the casing - the issue talked about here are universal to the Shimano motor system, or indeed any motor system as the cables need to get in to the casing one way or another. You will find that the mounting systems, and how the cables get into the bike, is pretty much universal across all bikes using the motor.

Where the lower shock mount is debris can collect, and you have two options, scoop/push it out with a brush or air hose if you have one, or wash it out with water. If you go for the later you need to be sensible, as you do anywhere near the motor, as if you you too high a pressure or amount of water then it will get in the casing.

 

[Gary]

If you go for the later you need to be sensible, as you do anywhere near the motor, as if you you too high a pressure or amount of water then it will get in the casing.

Have a look at the actual space left for the cable to enter the motor. (shining a torch into the wiring from above and looking in from the side I was quite surprised at what I saw) It doesn't require particualrly high pressure for water or debris to enter. but yes water volume isn't great either. being sensible when cleaning as you say is the important part. After you mentioned that debris/water from the wiring "nest" just exited the rear past the pivot/shock mount my sensibilities temporarily left the building having not realised the extent of the gap straight into the connector bay.

 

[Gary]

@Nifty 56
Can you confirm please.
Have you found your casing filling up through the cable entry hole without washing?
and have you had W011 errors because of it?

 

[Nifty 56]

massive over reaction really.
the casing only really fills if you over exuberently clean from above where the wiring sits.

the Vitus team are based in Ireland. Of course they've tested them in mud.

I don't think they have. They probably don't realise it exists.

This is like the problem with the 2019 Levo. Mud is getting into the motor through a hole in the back but Specialized are offering a fix to cure it. The problem will be solved on next years bike.

I wrote a E-Sommet review on CRC last year and mention the faults. It didn't get published!

 

[Nifty 56]

I have been riding both my Vitus's in the worst the British weather can throw at them, and I have had no issue with anything getting in to the casing - the issue talked about here are universal to the Shimano motor system, or indeed any motor system as the cables need to get in to the casing one way or another. You will find that the mounting systems, and how the cables get into the bike, is pretty much universal across all bikes using the motor.

Where the lower shock mount is debris can collect, and you have two options, scoop/push it out with a brush or air hose if you have one, or wash it out with water. If you go for the later you need to be sensible, as you do anywhere near the motor, as if you you too high a pressure or amount of water then it will get in the casing.



View attachment 10582

You've thrown the grime on there for extra effect.
How come it's still in the crank arms after you've been pedalling or in/on the car?

 

[Gary]

I don't think they have.

They have.

They probably don't realise it exists.

What? This would mean it's not happening to theirs then, wouldn't it?

This is like the problem with the 2019 Levo. Mud is getting into the motor through a hole in the back

it's really not. it's a small open area hidden under wiring and to the side and completely out of the firing line of the tyre. whereas the Levo is in direct firing line for rear tyre mud collection. hence my "over reaction" comment.

I wrote a E-Sommet review on CRC last year and mention the faults. It didn't get published!

Are you sure that's why it was rejected?
I've had negative reviews submitted fine, write it again but adhere to their guidance on whatever they stipulated was wrong with the rejected review.

 

[Gary]

someone's clearly never ridden in frozen slush

 

[Nifty 56]

someone's clearly never ridden in frozen slush

I've done it a few times and not a great fan...
The massive frame 'gap' above the BB on the Vitus is a lot larger than the Levo 'gap' at the rear. The massive frame 'gap' isn't there on the Levo is it's all sealed with a cover.

I've got a copy of my review and it does start with the negatives so probably why it wasn't listed and I didn't read the 'rules' before reviewing. Some other reviews get nastier than mine though.

That cover you've made for yours looks good so going to update mine soon... when it gets warmer

 

[Gary]

I love Front 242 and loved pretty much all the industrial new beat bands BITD. As a soundtrack I don't think it works too well with slow snow riding though. Could probably be redemed by including some cool mid ride dancing like this tho:

That cover you've made for yours looks good so going to update mine soon... when it gets warmer

Thanks. Was piss easy to make and the pakora was really nice

 

[R120]

You've thrown the grime on there for extra effect.
How come it's still in the crank arms after you've been pedalling or in/on the car?

Not quite sure what you mean? Both those photos are taken mid ride. The clay mud mix in the Surrey hills means that all the muck sticks.

There is no gap like on the Levo, which is a gap into the motor housing, what there is is a gap of about 10mm between the top of the motor housing and the frame mount on all Shimano bikes, and dirt can get in here but it sits on top of the motor, and usually comes out when you wash it or with a brush.

The deaign of the Vitus and it’s suspension layout means it’s fiddly to clean around the bottom of the shock, but that’s also the same design that makes it ride so well. Crap getting stuck by the bottom shock mount is totally separate from anything getting in the motor casing.

Getting water and mud in this area does not mean getting it in to your motor casing.

This is a picture of my E-Sentiers motor mount when I stripped it down for a respray, and you can see how there is no crap at all in there.

 

[RocketMagnet]

Gonna get some hate .. but seriously...
Looking at the design Vitus know there is a gap and the Shimano cover plate is not water tight so the connections are. I'd say from a primary design the plastic cover is not to prevent water/dirt ingress but to prevent physical damage to the cables / connections mainly from your feet. Just to be clear water and dirt are not getting into the motor as is being suggested but simply into the outer bash guard casing, under no circumstance should you make a gasket seal from RTV for the bash guard/cable cover its clearly designed to drain.

The standard connections on a DI2 rear derailleur and the computer side connections are totally open to the elements, hence the fancy water tight connectors and they are identical to those inside the bash cover. The power connection IS also a water tight connector. Ultimately if you were not protecting the cables from physical damage the case does nothing.

So ultimately the decision has been made to not block the area off and I agree with them .. why bother. The downside for the consumer is cleaning..

The only design flaw I can see is on the Shimano end and that's the lights connector, presumably if you attach lights and power them you should seal them in also as they could short (Silastic or RTV etc). The design is flexible but surprised they didn't use the same water tight connectors and sell proprietary cables for various sets of lights.

As for W011 errors.. they are thrown when there is something wrong with the speed sensor signal.. say like you when take the signal from the sensor, run it through a cheap RCSC that you power from the light connector so it sends a slower modified pulse rate to the motor than actual. First port of call on fault finding this by myself would be to try removing this "upgrade" and see if the Speed Sensor errors stop

 

[R120]

@RocketMagnet I agree with you, the cover is exactly that, a cover, not a watertight casing, at the end of the day is a generic bit of mass manufactured plastic.

 

[Nifty 56]

Gonna get some hate .. but seriously...
Looking at the design Vitus know there is a gap and the Shimano cover plate is not water tight so the connections are. I'd say from a primary design the plastic cover is not to prevent water/dirt ingress but to prevent physical damage to the cables / connections mainly from your feet. Just to be clear water and dirt are not getting into the motor as is being suggested but simply into the outer bash guard casing, under no circumstance should you make a gasket seal from RTV for the bash guard/cable cover its clearly designed to drain.

The standard connections on a DI2 rear derailleur and the computer side connections are totally open to the elements, hence the fancy water tight connectors and they are identical to those inside the bash cover. The power connection IS also a water tight connector. Ultimately if you were not protecting the cables from physical damage the case does nothing.

So ultimately the decision has been made to not block the area off and I agree with them .. why bother. The downside for the consumer is cleaning..

The only design flaw I can see is on the Shimano end and that's the lights connector, presumably if you attach lights and power them you should seal them in also as they could short (Silastic or RTV etc). The design is flexible but surprised they didn't use the same water tight connectors and sell proprietary cables for various sets of lights.

As for W011 errors.. they are thrown when there is something wrong with the speed sensor signal.. say like you when take the signal from the sensor, run it through a cheap RCSC that you power from the light connector so it sends a slower modified pulse rate to the motor than actual. First port of call on fault finding this by myself would be to try removing this "upgrade" and see if the Speed Sensor errors stop

The only time I've got W011 errors is when I swap rear wheels and forget to swap the speed sensor as well. I went all the way to Staveley once and had forgotten to swap the sensor. I had left the wheel with the sensor at home

By 'upgrade', if you mean the PearTune MSO, I've got one as well and had no problems.

 

[Nifty 56]

Not quite sure what you mean? Both those photos are taken mid ride. The clay mud mix in the Surrey hills means that all the muck sticks.

There is no gap like on the Levo, which is a gap into the motor housing, what there is is a gap of about 10mm between the top of the motor housing and the frame mount on all Shimano bikes, and dirt can get in here but it sits on top of the motor, and usually comes out when you wash it or with a brush.

The deaign of the Vitus and it’s suspension layout means it’s fiddly to clean around the bottom of the shock, but that’s also the same design that makes it ride so well. Crap getting stuck by the bottom shock mount is totally separate from anything getting in the motor casing.

Getting water and mud in this area does not mean getting it in to your motor casing.

This is a picture of my E-Sentiers motor mount when I stripped it down for a respray, and you can see how there is no crap at all in there.

Sorry but the wall just looks like it's in ur driveway at home.

 

[Nifty 56]

I love Front 242 and loved pretty much all the industrial new beat bands BITD. As a soundtrack I don't think it works too well with slow snow riding though. Could probably be redemed by including some cool mid ride dancing like this tho:




Thanks. Was piss easy to make and the pakora was really nice

I posted that video 7 years ago and still love Front 242. If I re-edited it with another soundtrack might be some OMD or Bowie

 

[R120]

Sorry but the wall just looks like it's in ur driveway at home.

And here's my front garden and back garden

 

[R120]

TBH my major concern with the motor, and indeed any EMTB motor, is what the state of the "bb" bearings will be like after a British Winter. Having destroyed BB on my other bikes over a winter, I am concerned at what stet they will be in come spring

 

[Gary]

Just to be clear water and dirt are not getting into the motor as is being suggested but simply into the outer bash guard casing, under no circumstance should you make a gasket seal from RTV for the bash guard/cable cover its clearly designed to drain.

not sure who was talking about dirt getting in from the bash guard?
That's just not going to happen.
See my pic above (post #1399) the red circled section is where it's getting in.

I opened my 2019 up and the power, speed sensor and control connection all look to be watertight connections.

trust me (and others) they're neither water or dirt tight and do need cleaning out from time to time. (often even when siliconed)

I checked the +ve and -ve terminals of the Lights and it's Zero Volts with the bike turned on, could be a weak point though if you do run lights from the main battery... so IMO unless your running lights I don't see too much to worry about?

They register zero volts because you haven't enabled the lights function through your Etube app yet.

I've got some RTV that stays pliable over a large temp range I could use to seal off the gap.. but really having looked at it i'm not really that bothered now as I wont be running lights from it. If your really worried run some sealant around the power, speed sensor, control connector and blank plug for a bit extra as water will track down the cables but really..?.

Lots of us here have been doing this for quite a long time already

I definitely would not be packing that space around the power connector etc with Motocross foam as you'll want to keep that area open, just clean it out occasionally. Perhaps some motocross foam jammed in the gap behind the cables to stop the worst of the crud getting in?

I also wouldn't recomment filling the entire connection bay (for want of a better label) space with motofoam. But I just have SUGRU'd the space I mentioned earlier as I've twice now had it fill with enough damp dirt that it's caused W011 errors during it's FIRST or SECOND ride after being cleaned out.

Don't wanna tell you how to suck eggs

Yeah, you sorta are a wee bit for some of us. Many folk here have been running E8000 motors for thousands of miles. (I'm on my second motor and probably somewhere around 1600-2000 Scottish all condition miles between the two of them) and believe me problems can and do occur from dirt, damp and water ingress in the connection bay

 

[StuckintheSpokes]

Posting for alerts to update to this topic.

 

[R120]

This threads kinda of gone full circle, as we are now having the same conversations we had when those of us who got the bike last year started poking around it properly.

 

[Gary]

You mean there are folk posting here now who haven't even bothered read all 1436 posts?

how very dare them.

 

[Doomanic]

Oh, I think it's still got legs. After all, no one has unfavorably compared it to a Levo before...

 

[R120]

Nah its good to go over stuff again because there's definitely stuff that we all thought that we will have changed opinions on over the last year

 

[Welshman]

You mean there are folk posting here now who haven't even bothered read all 1436 posts?

how very dare them.

what does the peartune do gary - i believe they are available for bosch motors aswell

 

[chrispymocha]

interestingly just found that the 150 BX dropper post is too long in the medium frame if you are 5'10 such as myself - I wouldn't go quite low enough to be comfortable on - I assume this would be the same on a large frame?
Are there any 150mm dropper posts with a shorter base?

 

[Stanley]

I'm just under 5'10"
I don't have a problem with the 150mm post in the large frame. I have the post sticking out by about 50mm. It could go down another 40mm of needed.