ICR Headsets for the SZZS-specific CEF50 build

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mike_kelly said:
Yes, just a standard Integrated headset.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link for one that would fit? Also, have you guys had instances of loose or sloppy headset fitment causing creaking or do you think its just cheap headset bearings going bad? I noticed a few comments about creaking in headset area
 
Could not tell you since neither of my bikes creak. I use the Token made Nukeproof ICR. I edited my comment above because the headset is a zero stack not an integrated. Acros makes a ZS56/66. But It seems there is a little confusion because some people believe they have a ZS52/66 headset. If you used a 52 in a frame milled out for 56 you certainly would get creaking. I am not sure what is going on but mine are definitely ZS56 on the top.

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Cane Creek 40 ZS56/28.6 Top Headset Black

Wonder why the Cane Creek 40-Series ZS - Zero Stack Headset is a mountain biker favorite in the Headset Upper collection? Part #BAA2202K. 40-Series Zero Stack headsets set the standard for performance, durability and value. Drawing from the premium 110-Series design, the 40-Series includes all...
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Would this work for the top?
 
I should also note that the cef50 and lce930 are different, my comments were related to the cef50.
You can just measure the bearing, easier.
 
Well lets go over to the conversation thread and ask people.
 
mike_kelly said:
Could not tell you since neither of my bikes creak. I use the Token made Nukeproof ICR. I edited my comment above because the headset is a zero stack not an integrated. Acros makes a ZS56/66. But It seems there is a little confusion because some people believe they have a ZS52/66 headset. If you used a 52 in a frame milled out for 56 you certainly would get creaking. I am not sure what is going on but mine are definitely ZS56 on the top.

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Click to expand...
with this one i still had play on my pivot. solved by using upper part of this set (with original insert)

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mike_kelly said:
Well lets go over to the conversation thread and ask people.
Click to expand...
Old ZSSZ IRC upper headset:

Bearing size is 52OD x 40ID.

PXL_20231226_032520171.jpg
PXL_20231226_032536545.jpg


New ZSSZ ICR upper headset:

Bearing size is 52OD x 42ID.
PXL_20231226_032438377.MP.jpg
PXL_20231226_032459022.jpg



The new is thinner by 2 mm.
PXL_20231226_032559222.jpg

Blue is old. Red is new. You're welcome!😉
PXL_20231226_032335907~2.jpg
 
As others have probably stayed to clarify confusing systems: internal v. external. Both SZZS CEF50 and LCE930 are ZS.

✅ ZS is just the bearing/w cup internal to the headtube of the frame.
✅ It's also called "semi-integrated" as an older term.
✅ Fully integrated means the frame manufacturer has the bearing "cup" made into the frame. So, no separate cup but has the internal bearing.

Need proof? See references 👇.
Screenshot_20231225-185355.png

canecreek.com

Everything You Need To Know About Headsets - Cane Creek

A comprehensive guide on how to measure, identify, and understand headsets for bicycles. Visit our site to learn more.
canecreek.com canecreek.com

Screenshot_20231225-185105.png

BBB Cycling - Buyer's Guide | Headsets

All information about headsets and their different types; Zero Stack, Integral and External Cup are discussed to make sure you will get the right headset bearing for your bike.
bbbcycling.com bbbcycling.com
 
That is the confusion. Headset specs quote the internal bore of the headtube not the bearing size. So a ZS56 is a zero stack pressfit bearing cup for a 56mm bore headtube top.
Headset.png
 
mike_kelly said:
That is the confusion. Headset specs quote the internal bore of the headtube not the bearing size. So a ZS56 is a zero stack pressfit bearing cup for a 56mm bore headtube top.
View attachment 131206
Click to expand...
Yup Mike confusing. I offered only bearing sizes for the new and old SZZS ICR. And that it's ZS.

But some headset companies like Chris King and Cane Creek have compatibility recommendations for 52 mm headset bearings that work for ZS and IS for various headset sizes ZS56/ZS44/ZS42 common in Mtbs AND newer E-mtbs. So, one doesn't always have to guess. Plus, they would rather sell the complete headset, so I guess manufacturers figure that's the least confusing for the consumer? Until, the bearings sizes are needed to replace or just be upgraded in my case...then the hunt begins!

My experience is that stock headset bearings are FSA generics-low to mid quality. So, I planned on upgrading at the outset. I also found the lower ZS cup on my other DIY E-mtb builds from Dengfu and Light Carbon to be out of spec and junk. Just like the SZZS one was when installed to see how bad the slack it created. I had my Acros 66 bearing set up for the upgrade install and works well as planned. Good upgrade! IMHO.

Both Old SZZS top cap worked with my 52/40 Enduro bearing upgrade. And for the New SZZS top cap, my new Hellbender 52/42 upgrade works.

Side note: I did get creaking after hard driven rain on the Old SZZS top cap that had a gap. I just re-greased with Park grease that seemed to help. Now using Phil Wood waterproof grease for extra protection. However, the New SZZS top cap has a taller bearing cup that looks to cover the gap to prevent water ingress. I'll know if I ride in the rain, which is rare here in the desert.🍻
 
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Both are snug when mounted...no play. New left (white plastic IRC insert/reducer) old right (black metal insert/reducer).👇
PXL_20231226_052927428.jpg
 
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It is confusing because the industry also likes to round up. The 41.8mm size is half the time referred to as 42mm.
 
mike_kelly said:
It is confusing because the industry also likes to round up. The 41.8mm size is half the time referred to as 42mm.
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💯! And ICR is still new to the mtb/E-mtb industry, so mainly proprietary with frame manufacturers. I'm glad a premium brand like Acros was responding to the E-mtb demands with oversized headsets for some ICR universal compatibility.

Unfortunately, both Chris King and Cane Creek have no plans to serve the ICR demand anytime soon according to my convos last year with corporate sales reps when searching for ICR. Quality but becoming a little overpriced. 💸💸💸

I was hoping that WolfTooth brand was going to step up...they make some great headsets and are a smaller company, and like CC use Enduro brand sealed bearings in their well-machined assemblies...nice color choices too for those that want bling matching factor. 👊
 
I use Wolftooth everywhere else but like you pointed out they don't make bearings as big as the CEF50 uses. Too bad.
 
Thanks for collecting the different options in this thread.

Is there a way to use a reach adjust, or angle head sets, on frames that use these ICR headsets?
I am about to finally pull the trigger on a E56, but then I noticed that tiny detail about it...
 
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The headset is very large because of the ICR headset. So most of the makers that supply headsets don't make their angle headsets for that large a size. I think the only possibility is the angleset made by Acro in Germany.

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The problem is whether the ACRO angle headset works with the ICR top cap. But you can order the CEF50 without the ICR headset and they will put cable entries on the sides of the top tube like a normal internal cable route.
I have never figured out what kind of headset is used on the LCES930. The headtube size is non-tapered 1.5 but is it integrated or zero stack etc. Hopefully a 930 user will update us.
 
mike_kelly said:
The headset is very large because of the ICR headset. So most of the makers that supply headsets don't make their angle headsets for that large a size. I think the only possibility is the angleset made by Acro in Germany.

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The problem is whether the ACRO angle headset works with the ICR top cap. But you can order the CEF50 without the ICR headset and they will put cable entries on the sides of the top tube like a normal internal cable route.
I have never figured out what kind of headset is used on the LCES930. The headtube size is non-tapered 1.5 but is it integrated or zero stack etc. Hopefully a 930 user will update us.
Click to expand...
take care, i think that ACROS ZS56/66 angle set don't fit on LCES50.
 
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