New Pinion integrated gearbox and motor (MGU)

It seems like a whole lot of overthinking going on here. I’m sure belts will be fine. Rear triangles are not going to flex to the point of derailing a belt. Tensioners will be placed out of harms way and there will be options for chains for people that don’t want a belt. I’m just looking forward to having this tech arrive so no more drivetrain maintenance or damage happening. In the meantime, I’ll continue riding my Voima like I stole it! Whoo hoo!🤘🏻😎
 
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Mikerb said:
It is a valid point that a chain has one a dvantage over a carbon belt............ie it has some sideways flex, and will operate when not fully inline. It may well be that other manufacturers pursuing the combined motor/gearbox design, decide that retaining the chain rather than a carbon belt is more suitable for a full suspension emtb. After all the chain would not need to be as narrow or eavilly engineered as a chain that needs to move over a 12 speed cassette so could be pretty robust, suffer less wear and be cheap to buy ( e.g a fixie chain). Alternatively they may look for an alternative belt design that does have some sideways flex.
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Pinion can run with Chain OR belt, the Bulls bike with the motor has a chain drive so Pinion have already addressed the issue from their point of view. It is the bike makers who use the MGU that make the choice.
 
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emtbeast said:
And another one on Belt vs Chain if you have time to watch, some useful information there...

Just doing some thinking here...one thing that got me interested in the video was that he mentioned(also heard that before somewhere) the frame for the belt needs to be stif(not move sideways) for the belt drive or the belt could skip of the rear cog.

I wonder how that is going to work with an emtb, as sideway forces on the rear triangle on an mtb/emtb are significant. It is true that in those situations(downhills) usually we don't pedal, but anyway it could be a point to look at for the future.

There is the belt snubber at the back that is keeping the belt from skipping over the teeth, possibly also marginally sideways to the outside, but not to the inside of the frame.

One of the requirements for the beltdrive is that the belt line needs to be perfectly straight, any sideways movement can put excessive strain on it. Could this mean that belt life on emtbs is going to be shorter or more prone to damage?

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There's been full suspension MTBs with belt drives for years without too many issues. My friend has a Zerode Kapito with 3000km on it and is still on the original belt and sprockets. Sure, there are some breakages out there, but there's issues with chains too. All in all there's a whole lot less maintenance with a belt.
 
As much as we want to reduce the unsprung weight, to the average rider internal gear hubs such as the Kindernay maybe enough and some have already been fitted with belts.
kindernay.com

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kindernay.com kindernay.com
 
Super clean


Screenshot_20230704-073257.png
 
IT would be nice if someone who knows more about pinion e-mtb's would compile a list of companies that are putting Pinions motor/transmission on their bikes.
 
Interesting thread, although a lot of the technical stuff goes straight over my head. Am i right in thinking that if this was fitted to a hardtail, there would be no need for the tensioner?
 
billwarwick said:
Interesting thread, although a lot of the technical stuff goes straight over my head. Am i right in thinking that if this was fitted to a hardtail, there would be no need for the tensioner?
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That's right. But there's had to be slider drop outs.
 
Been reading all the Pinion stuff and I think it’s a game changer. When I got my first eMTB I really wavered over splashing out on a used Nicolai with the Rohloff hub and Gates belt. That carbon belt is deffo the way to go for eMTB as it’s bomb proof and maintenance free, it’s just finding a reliable and waterproof gear and engine combo to suit it. Not sure why Rotwild paired a GMU with a chain but the Pinion and Bulls look ace. Started saving……
 
Great to see a key player entering the GMU space.
I wonder how it will stack up against Revonte One and Intra-Drive.
To me the Revonte One seems to have a few advantages over the Pinion but they are not doing anything on the E-MTB marked and are more geared towards city bikes and cargo bikes.
Intra-Drive I am afraid will struggle against the Pinion. But it will all depend on the bikes that implement them. Intra drive is testing their unit on the Orange Phase MX.
The Intra drive has the advantage of using the same mounting holes as Shimano EP8.
And that’s one sweet bike.
With the Revonte One I would like to see a fellow Finland collaboration with the Pole


The Big question is when can we actually buy this thing and what bikes will implement it. The Bulls seems to be my choice, but I would love some more options for long travel bikes (180mm)
 
V86 said:
Great to see a key player entering the GMU space.
I wonder how it will stack up against Revonte One and Intra-Drive.
To me the Revonte One seems to have a few advantages over the Pinion but they are not doing anything on the E-MTB marked and are more geared towards city bikes and cargo bikes.
Intra-Drive I am afraid will struggle against the Pinion. But it will all depend on the bikes that implement them. Intra drive is testing their unit on the Orange Phase MX.
The Intra drive has the advantage of using the same mounting holes as Shimano EP8.
And that’s one sweet bike.
With the Revonte One I would like to see a fellow Finland collaboration with the Pole


The Big question is when can we actually buy this thing and what bikes will implement it. The Bulls seems to be my choice, but I would love some more options for long travel bikes (180mm)
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Simplon Rapcon might be an alternative for you , Enduro Version specs 170 front and 165 rear and belt
 
I had seen the @Rob Rides EMTB test before registering here, and I was excited about it (y)

Now, I look forward to the release of these new models equipped with the Pinion.. 😇

This is one of the reasons why I bought a basic aluminum version of the turbo levo, it allows me to wait the necessary time before finding the really good Pinion model for me..
 
Has this all gone quiet. I’ve looked at Nicolai, Bulls and Pinion itself and there seems to be a good reception but no actual bikes in shops to test? Anyone actually seen any metal??
 
Bakewell Blue said:
Has this all gone quiet. I’ve looked at Nicolai, Bulls and Pinion itself and there seems to be a good reception but no actual bikes in shops to test? Anyone actually seen any metal??
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2024 bikes (all types) are only just starting to appear in bike shops from all brands so I would say that in the next couple of months to expect them.
 
www.mbr.co.uk

First Look: Geometron G2 Pinion gearbox bike 2024 - MBR

Forget high pivot idlers, Geometron goes back to the gearbox with a Pinion drivetrain on its latest G2 bike. Need to know Geometron G2 comes with a Pinion gearbox option, with choice of anything from 9-18 speed G2 will be available from summer 2024, once final testing on shock positioning is...
www.mbr.co.uk www.mbr.co.uk

Now it's an easy choice for a FF e-bike. This is the one I'd be buying if I was in that market.
 
Suns_PSD said:
www.mbr.co.uk

First Look: Geometron G2 Pinion gearbox bike 2024 - MBR

Forget high pivot idlers, Geometron goes back to the gearbox with a Pinion drivetrain on its latest G2 bike. Need to know Geometron G2 comes with a Pinion gearbox option, with choice of anything from 9-18 speed G2 will be available from summer 2024, once final testing on shock positioning is...
www.mbr.co.uk www.mbr.co.uk

Now it's an easy choice for a FF e-bike. This is the one I'd be buying if I was in that market.
Click to expand...
That is nice, but still no belt drive. If I were to get an MGU bike in the future, I’d get a belt drive too. So it would be virtually maintenance free.
 
Suns_PSD said:
www.mbr.co.uk

First Look: Geometron G2 Pinion gearbox bike 2024 - MBR

Forget high pivot idlers, Geometron goes back to the gearbox with a Pinion drivetrain on its latest G2 bike. Need to know Geometron G2 comes with a Pinion gearbox option, with choice of anything from 9-18 speed G2 will be available from summer 2024, once final testing on shock positioning is...
www.mbr.co.uk www.mbr.co.uk

Now it's an easy choice for a FF e-bike. This is the one I'd be buying if I was in that market.
Click to expand...
All it’s missing is a motor and somewhere for a battery 🤣
 
goroncy said:
I'll say it like that. Pinion has one shot with this. It is a small company that needs a lot of money right now to scale. So they had to do it right. The only one who can do some bad are actually the bike brands. I don't know if Simplon was the best company to choose from. I had massive problems with their China made carbon ebike frames (multiple).

The internals of the motor/gearbox unit have nothing to do even with the best right now - Bosch. Bosch motor has to be fully rebuild around the time the Pinion will need an oil change. This is comparing apples to oranges really. Bosch makes consumer designed motor with multiple plastic parts inside. Pinion just released an industrial machine. I hope that someone will notice this difference in the reviews, and how much money it will save the potential owner that rides a lot.

So I'm very optimistic when it comes to the motor. I am not that ultra optimistic with the bike brands and their first iteration of frame designs for this motor.
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Pinion was bought out by Bombardier. They will have money to push this.
 
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