Bafang M500 and M600 motors

Casainho, there are a number of VESC boards available ( I think the one you are using is for higher voltages and more current than needed ), are there any small VESC Boards of lower amp specs enough to shoe horn into the void left by taking out the Bafang controller ?

Edit: A quick look on the internet throws up this little beastie at 65mm x 18mm. It only has a burst amps of 40A and rated at 20A constant which is right in the ball park
 
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Waynemarlow said:
Casainho, there are a number of VESC boards available ( I think the one you are using is for higher voltages and more current than needed ), are there any small VESC Boards of lower amp specs enough to shoe horn into the void left by taking out the Bafang controller ?
Click to expand...
The one I use on the video can not support 13S battery, only 12S. So I decided to go with other that supports up to 75V, that should be plenty for my 14S / 52V battery.

Yes, I agree would be better to have smaller board but I do not think that exists. The only option if is someone desing, build and test a custom board. There is a developer doing just that! In fact this step of DIY is important to develop and validate before having the final board, still, there are disadvantages that custom board will be hard to assembly and be tested, as also will only for a specific motor model.
 
Hi,
I noticed that on github this text is listed in the firmware folder:


1668803729185.png


How should I understand it?
Is it possible to change something on certain addresses in the firmware in the hex editor?
 
Kyokushin said:
These settings are not working. Page need to be updated.


Kyokushin can you please confirm that with the new motors 510 the controller is the same and you just update it with firmware for 48v or 36 or 43?
Click to expand...
 
No, M510 have different controller than M500 and M600.
M510 controller do not work with M500/600 engines and firmware is not interchangable.
 
Casainho, good job! Just to put it all together and make from it workable and reliable system will be hard. Torque sensor will be a little problem to make it smooth.
If that small VESC can be placed into motor that would be great. The one from Sparkfun is really small - RC guys have still the smallest boards. ;)
 
savas said:
I have m510 48v ,can i install 36v firmware on it?
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Yes, I've been running this for months as the torque sensor works better for me in this mode. You need to have the correct 36V firmware for your version of controller though for it to flash correctly. Your battery level indicator won't be much use as it will stay very high all the time, so don't rely on it.
 
Thx guys
i have another bike and the dengfu battery is not going to fit.Hence i am going to use a 36v.
 
vikino1 said:
s it then possible to use a 43v or 48v battery on a 36v motor?
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Something to consider. I finally for the first time ran my battery fully out, as in the bike turned off due to a low battery. My M600 is Ver 46.7 on supposedly 48 volts. I have run it on 52 volts from new without problem and assumed due to the higher voltage, that it would be the BMS that would shut the battery down, a 48 volt low battery should be around 38 volts.

That is clearly not the case. The motor some how knows the battery is a 52 volt battery and shut the motor down at 3.0V a cell 42 volts. Now that’s way earlier than expected and possibly it means that the Controller has switched into 52 volt mapping. Interesting also that the percentage meter on the display also accurately mapped down to 1% as it shut down.

If nothing else its a tad annoying as I still had about 80Whs left in the battery.
 
savas said:
yes but you need to flash the firmware
Click to expand...
Sava, please dont spread untrue, we have lot of this in the World now, no? ;)

You can not use 48V battery on 36V firmware. You will get Error 7.
You can use only one level up with battery. So if you flash 43V firmware u can use 48V battery. (And this is the best option for power tuning - you just would have wrong SOC %, but you will get to deeper voltage cutoff, so would use whole battery energy)
 
Waynemarlow said:
Something to consider. I finally for the first time ran my battery fully out, as in the bike turned off due to a low battery. My M600 is Ver 46.7 on supposedly 48 volts. I have run it on 52 volts from new without problem and assumed due to the higher voltage, that it would be the BMS that would shut the battery down, a 48 volt low battery should be around 38 volts.

That is clearly not the case. The motor some how knows the battery is a 52 volt battery and shut the motor down at 3.0V a cell 42 volts. Now that’s way earlier than expected and possibly it means that the Controller has switched into 52 volt mapping. Interesting also that the percentage meter on the display also accurately mapped down to 1% as it shut down.

If nothing else its a tad annoying as I still had about 80Whs left in the battery.
Click to expand...


Hello mate.

Have not experimented yet with 52V battery. Just form my experience, motor is not auto detecting number of serial cells (unless u have Bafang battery with BMS CAN protocol). Firmware just checking actual range of voltage.

Is true Bafang cutoff voltage is set quite high - cca 3V per cell. So then cutoff voltage will be 39V for 48V FW. If you use 52V battery should not matter and you should be able to go deeper here - 39/14 = 2.78V per cell.

And BMSes usually have cutoff set to 2.6V per cell.
 
Dado said:
Sava, please dont spread untrue, we have lot of this in the World now, no? ;)

You can not use 48V battery on 36V firmware. You will get Error 7.
You can use only one level up with battery. So if you flash 43V firmware u can use 48V battery. (And this is the best option for power tuning - you just would have wrong SOC %, but you will get to deeper voltage cutoff, so would use whole battery energy)
Click to expand...
Hi Dado
what i meant was that he needs to flash the firmware to 48v in order to use the correct battery(48v).I am getting my besst tool next week and will try from 48v firmware to 36v firmware.
 
Dado said:
Hello mate.

Have not experimented yet with 52V battery. Just form my experience, motor is not auto detecting number of serial cells (unless u have Bafang battery with BMS CAN protocol). Firmware just checking actual range of voltage.

Is true Bafang cutoff voltage is set quite high - cca 3V per cell. So then cutoff voltage will be 39V for 48V FW. If you use 52V battery should not matter and you should be able to go deeper here - 39/14 = 2.78V per cell.

And BMSes usually have cutoff set to 2.6V per cell.
Click to expand...
Correct in theory and I had expected that as well, but the motor shut down at 42 volts. That means the motor has auto detected a 52 volt battery and shut down accordingly.

Bit of a pain as I ended up riding 8 km with nearly 100m rise on a dead motor. The only upside was that it is possible to pedal the bike unlike a friends latest Bosch which is almost impossible to pedal when the motor is off.
 
And when did you measure voltage? During high power draw?

When I drain battery almost to end, at home I am measuring 46V (with 48V battery) .
 
Dado said:
And when did you measure voltage? During high power draw?

When I drain battery almost to end, at home I am measuring 46V (with 48V battery) .
Click to expand...
Yup the cells will recover pretty quickly with a surface charge that can fool you. The cells I’m using should be fine as I was only pulling very low amps when the battery shut down and according to their test specifications, well within limits.

Out of interest next time I have a lowish battery I’ll put it on test load and check just exactly what is going on.
 
Mida said:
Hi,
Do you know where FLX.bike sends its goods?

I wanted to order this controller, but it can't be sent to the Czech Republic...
I would have it forwarded from one of the countries that FLX ships to...
Click to expand...

Kyokushin:​

you may try myus.com, i used their services once, however i see Czechia on FLX list.


FLX really says in its information that it ships to the Czech Republic, but when I filled in the Czech address in the basket, I received information that it is not possible to send the goods to the Czech Republic.
I don't know why that was.
I finally solved it by ordering the controller from AliExpress in the November festival at a similar price:
www.aliexpress.com

90.32￡ 20% OFF|36V 43V 48V Bafang M600/G521 Controller of Torque Motor| | - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
www.aliexpress.com www.aliexpress.com
 
Finally I have the display working, here is the current status:

Before start doing the EBike application, here is what is working and what is missing:
- [x] Throotle read
- [x] Torque sensor read
- [x] Brake sensor read
- [x] Wheel speed sensor read
- [x] VESC motor control
- [x] Display
- [ ] EBike application
- [ ] Install this system and this Bafang M500 on my EBike, test and make the final developments

Current Pyhton code: github.com/EBike_EScooter_app_pyhton/firmware/main.py

My next step is start thinking on the EBike application. I will use my EBike on an event this weekend so I will keep the original motor up to next Monday, after that and up to January 2023, I should finalize this project in a way I can ride my EBike on next events. As I can develop and program by Bluetooth, with a PC or my phone, the EBike application software, I will always be able to fine tune anything at laEBike_EScooter_app_pyhton/blob/main/firmware/main.pyst minute before any riding or even during a ride -- because I am pretty sure it will take time to fine tune the motor torque curve response, throttle curve, etc.

As you can see on the video, the battery voltage, battery current and motor power, can be seen on the display. Note that this values are read from the VESC and so they are slightly different from the ones seen on the lab power supply.

 
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Hello everyone. I have a Bafang m500 motor for sale. in the set: motor, cranks 170mm, display and shifter dp c240, hub speed sensor and all cables necessary for connection (motor, battery, screen, sensor) I will post pictures later and price please message. the engine was used for 700-800 km. completely correct and functional.
 
Now some user from USA contacted me, he has M600 with latest firmware 46.9 and stating he see max power of 750W and even can not holds with Brose motor.

So looks like Bafang did again a stupid thing and limiting current? Anybody also with such an experience?

I am getting crazy about Bafang developers, every firmware has some catch or bug. :(
 
Dado said:
Now some user from USA contacted me, he has M600 with latest firmware 46.9 and stating he see max power of 750W and even can not holds with Brose motor.

So looks like Bafang did again a stupid thing and limiting current? Anybody also with such an experience?

I am getting crazy about Bafang developers, every firmware has some catch or bug. :(
Click to expand...
Dado most of what the USA guy is saying has yet to be proven ( I'm not sure but he is saying his display max's out at 750W, that may not mean that the motor doesn't produce more ). He has problems understanding that the M600 needs to have a higher cadence than the Brose motor he is comparing it to. Lets not make assumptions based on one user.
 
He sad he can not holds with kids motor - Brose ;) - which is strange. Thats right, doesnt matter what max power bar is LCD showing.
I have asked him to check current limit in controller, lets see if it is 18 Amps.
 
Waynemarlow said:
Dado most of what the USA guy is saying has yet to be proven ( I'm not sure but he is saying his display max's out at 750W, that may not mean that the motor doesn't produce more ). He has problems understanding that the M600 needs to have a higher cadence than the Brose motor he is comparing it to. Lets not make assumptions based on one user.
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I'm that user.

To be clear guys I do not have problems understanding the cadence issues. ;) I fully understand that the cranks need to spin faster to make power when compared to the Brose. Also I have a deep understanding of EV systems and have built electric motorcycles from scratch and even won land speed record with them at the Bonneville salt flats in 2008. I say that only to remove the belief that I'm somehow "confused".

If I have failed in some manner, it is to explain the issue I'm seeing (which may or may not be related to firmware.)

What I know is this: In VERY steep sections of climb I can't keep up with another rider on a Levo. I am in shape and he is recovering from valve replacement surgery and is 80. I get up the hill fast. Just not as fast as him.

I have found I need to drop down a couple gears from his cadence to dig into the motor's power band (yes by spinning the cranks faster! ;) ) and in doing so I simply end up moving slower up the steep sections and see the motor putting out about 400w. I CAN increase wattage to like 650w by further lowering gears but then I lose more speed.

I would not even think something is wrong except all I hear is "The m600 beats everything all the time" (that's a paraphrase but you catch my meaning) and mine apparently does not.

Yes, I get it... you say "pedal harder" I AM pedaling plenty hard. We all can agree that if someone pedals hard enough they could beat him up the hill, even without a motor. All I'm saying is if beating him requires some peak or even high athletic output then the m600 fails to fit into the "The m600 beats everything all the time" category.

So I started asking you knowledgeable folks if you think something might be broken or set wrong and during that process I learned I have a new' firmware ( I shared on this board the 64.9 bin I managed to get and I trust @Kyokushin will put it up in the git for all to use ). Part of that process showed that my DPC18 display is capped (only visually) at 750w and for others it goes up to 1500w. I'm NOT saying the display limits the wattage - I'm only saying it looks different.

I will test the hill again with the weak-hearted octogenarian on a Levo with 2 changes,
a) 64.7 firmware
b) a throttle to artificially boost watts and just see what happens ( I have never ridden with the throttle)

A quick test on the flats left me feeling no obvious difference between 64.7 and 64.9. And to be clear I would not be surprised if firmware ends up being NOT the issue. For all I know there could easily be another problem.

Sorry for the TL : DR - my goal is only to help us M600 owners enjoy our builds more.
 
What is the throttle behaviour in coparison between 46.7 and 46.9 ?
I am asking because i have noticed a 46.7 have around 30% of throttle threshold before it starting to engage.

The max current that i can observe on display on 46.7 is around 20Amps. @vext could you check your peak Amps?

Is the 46.9 firmware a 'stock' that you have received with the Motor? is the 46.9 number on the motor sticker?
 
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